Kevin Youkilis is selfish

[TLev]

A true soldier refrains from emotion and follows orders regardless of how they affect that soldier.

Youk fires up the troops. He knows how the team works. If that was a softy like Varitek he would have walked down the line, and let Porcello stay in where he could continue to mow down the order. He sacrificed himself in the heat of battle for five games where the Red Sox woke up and since that ejection we are 4-2. braveheart looks to Youk for inspiration at night

[CrespoBlows]

Youk fires up the troops. He knows how the team works. If that was a softy like Varitek he would have walked down the line' date=' and let Porcello stay in where he could continue to mow down the order. He sacrificed himself in the heat of battle for five games where the Red Sox woke up and since that ejection we are 4-2. braveheart looks to Youk for inspiration at night[/quote']

 

Wow. How many players would be inspired by your supposed "leader" getting dropped by the opposing pitcher?

[schillingouttheks]

Youk is a true soldier equal Guts' date=' Heart, and Ability. He doesn't like to get f***ed around with and sparks the team when they need it. This is his and Beckett's team and he wants the league to know that the Red Sox mean business. He woke up the team at the right time.[/quote']

 

Yeah, because they're really playing like they don't need Youkilis right now.

 

f*** the gritty ********. That s*** means nothing. What he did hurt this team and we're watching it now. Something like charging the mound does not spark a baseball team. Maybe a football team, or some other sport where getting pumped up matters way more.

 

And lol @ the Red Sox mean business part.

[schillingouttheks]

Youk fires up the troops. He knows how the team works. If that was a softy like Varitek he would have walked down the line' date=' and let Porcello stay in where he could continue to mow down the order. He sacrificed himself in the heat of battle for five games where the Red Sox woke up and since that ejection we are 4-2. braveheart looks to Youk for inspiration at night[/quote']

 

I'm speechless. This statement is completely and utterly off base regarding this issue.

 

EDIT: Unless this is a fake account, which I'll check right now, I can't stop laughing.

[CrespoBlows]

Youk is a true soldier equal Guts' date=' Heart, and Ability. He doesn't like to get f***ed around with and sparks the team when they need it. This is his and Beckett's team and he wants the league to know that the Red Sox mean business. He woke up the team at the right time.[/quote']

 

Would you call him tuff, clutch, and gritty?

[Dipre]

Would you call him tuff' date=' clutch, and gritty?[/quote']

 

This line is so cliche.

 

Still made me laugh.

[TheKilo]

Youk is a true soldier equal Guts' date=' Heart, and Ability. He doesn't like to get f***ed around with and sparks the team when they need it. This is his and Beckett's team and he wants the league to know that the Red Sox mean business. He woke up the team at the right time.[/quote']

 

He woke up this team and sparked them to a 2-3 record, one game where they lost by two rund and another they lost by one?

[soxfan17881]

Listen, it was the second time in two days he'd gotten plunked. It wasn't something he thought about. He got hit and he freaked out a bit. Whether or not it was selfish or if it fired up the team is irrelevant. It was an emotional reaction, and one that I could see a lot of guys making if the same thing happened on the right day.

[schillingouttheks]

Listen' date=' it was the second time in two days he'd gotten plunked. It wasn't something he thought about. He got hit and he freaked out a bit. Whether or not it was selfish or if it fired up the team is irrelevant. It was an emotional reaction, and one that I could see a lot of guys making if the same thing happened on the right day.[/quote']

 

How many times is this going to be said? That's still not a good enough reason to justify his suspension and how it hurt the lineup tremendously at a critical part of the season.

 

I agree with people who acknowledge it was an emotional reaction, but that the consequences really f***ed up this team. I do not agree with people who say it's an emotional reaction and then are willing to give him a break and live with the suspension.

[Dojji]

How many times is this going to be said? That's still not a good enough reason to justify his suspension and how it hurt the lineup tremendously at a critical part of the season.

 

I agree with people who acknowledge it was an emotional reaction, but that the consequences really f***ed up this team. I do not agree with people who say it's an emotional reaction and then are willing to give him a break and live with the suspension.

 

How about those that say that if we're this dependent on a single hitter we aren't contenders anyway?

 

If Kevin Youkilis hypothetically going down for an extended period single handedly screws us over then we're done anyway.

 

I for one am not going to lay these losses at Youkilis' feet alone. It'd have been better if he'd been in the lineup sure, but there are a lot of other hypotheticals that could have resulted in a win as well so I have no desire to watch him become a scapegoat for a teamwide suckfest.

[Cocos Disciples]

I for one am not going to lay these losses at Youkilis' feet alone. It'd have been better if he'd been in the lineup sure, but there are a lot of other hypotheticals that could have resulted in a win as well so I have no desire to watch him become a scapegoat for a teamwide suckfest.

 

Not sure anyone has said anything different.

[Dojji]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/tom_verducci/08/18/stop.beanballs/index.html?eref=T1

 

Baseball keeps letting this macho bunk go unchecked. So what we wind up with is this typical scenario: star player gets hit by a pitch (often accidentally), and star player's pitching staff feels obligated to hit one of theirs. And if his team doesn't take out one of theirs, the star player whines that his teammates don't protect him. Hanley Ramirez of the Marlins went that route this year. Chad Billingsley of the Dodgers was demeaned last year for not "retaliating" against the Phillies in the NLCS after teammate Manny Ramirez was hit.

 

[schillingouttheks]

How about those that say that if we're this dependent on a single hitter we aren't contenders anyway?

 

If Kevin Youkilis hypothetically going down for an extended period single handedly screws us over then we're done anyway.

 

I for one am not going to lay these losses at Youkilis' feet alone. It'd have been better if he'd been in the lineup sure, but there are a lot of other hypotheticals that could have resulted in a win as well so I have no desire to watch him become a scapegoat for a teamwide suckfest.

 

We've lost games by 2 and 1. Kevin Youkilis in the lineup most definitely could have changed that. This isn't about not getting an unfortunate bounce, it's about having one of your star players in the lineup. If there's one hypothetical that was most likely to come to fruition, it's that the Sox prob could have won with him in the lineup.

 

If we miss out on a playoff spot by a game or so, I will point to this part in the season because it's the one set of losses that could have been reversed if we simply had him in the game. It's not like he's injured and can't physically play. He's out because it's his own damn fault.

 

If you're not a contender but make the playoffs, you don't have to do anything to your team to become one. The playoffs are a crapshoot. Do you really think the Rockies were considered "contenders" before their hot streak at the end of 2007? No. They became on pretty quickly without adjusting their roster though.

 

Yes, it won't be Youkilis's fault alone. I understand that. But he will have played a pretty tremendous part in the lack of a playoff appearance considering it came at a point in the season where we were playing the team right behind us in the WC standings.

[Keeper]

********. Baseball is a team sport. If the Red Sox don't make the playoffs it's because Dice K was hurt all year, Lowrie was hurt all year, Drew has underperformed, Ortiz has been horrible, Ellsbury hasn't improved as much as people thought he would, Smoltz didn't work out, Penny has been extremely mediocre, Varitek is still playing, and Theo didn't get Cliff Lee.

[Dipre]

********. Baseball is a team sport. If the Red Sox don't make the playoffs it's because Dice K was hurt all year' date=' Lowrie was hurt all year, Drew has underperformed, Ortiz has been horrible, Ellsbury hasn't improved as much as people thought he would, Smoltz didn't work out, Penny has been extremely mediocre, Varitek is still playing, and Theo didn't get Cliff Lee.[/quote']

 

This about sums up everything that's gone wrong this season.

 

Youk's suspension is just a drop in the glass of piss this season's been.

[TheKilo]

How about those that say that if we're this dependent on a single hitter we aren't contenders anyway?

 

If Kevin Youkilis hypothetically going down for an extended period single handedly screws us over then we're done anyway.

 

I for one am not going to lay these losses at Youkilis' feet alone. It'd have been better if he'd been in the lineup sure, but there are a lot of other hypotheticals that could have resulted in a win as well so I have no desire to watch him become a scapegoat for a teamwide suckfest.

 

Completely f***ing irrelevant.

 

The thing is, and I'm not sure you noticed, is that Texas and Tampa Bay aren't going anywhere. These teams are going to be neck and neck for the next forty games and it could really come down to a game here, a game there.

 

So yeah, if the Sox miss out on the postseason by one or two games, damn straight I'm looking at these games Youkilis just missed and am thinking "what if".

 

THAT'S why the decision was selfish. Hope it doesn't come down to that.

[TheKilo]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/tom_verducci/08/18/stop.beanballs/index.html?eref=T1

 

WHO f***ING CARES

 

Win the baseball games. It's easy to "demean" these individuals when you lose. No one gives a f*** if you win.

[Spudboy]

This about sums up everything that's gone wrong this season.

 

Youk's suspension is just a drop in the glass of piss this season's been.

 

 

Keeper and Dipre are right.

 

Really nothing more needs to be said.

[schillingouttheks]

********. Baseball is a team sport. If the Red Sox don't make the playoffs it's because Dice K was hurt all year' date=' Lowrie was hurt all year, Drew has underperformed, Ortiz has been horrible, Ellsbury hasn't improved as much as people thought he would, Smoltz didn't work out, Penny has been extremely mediocre, Varitek is still playing, and Theo didn't get Cliff Lee.[/quote']

 

Injuries happen. Players having bad years happens. Youk snapping and getting suspended for 5 games during one of the most pivotal stretches of the season doesn't need to happen. If we lose out on the playoffs by a game, this is the first of everything that went wrong in this season that I'm pointing to. Period.

 

I'm not willing to go out and say Youk is selfish because it's understandable for him to react as he did, but it was a stupid, stupid thing to do that could cost us the playoffs.

 

Whatever, he's back now and we're back on top of the Wild Card. I will settle to agree to disagree so we can repeating ourselves without getting anywhere though. I guess I'm holding Youkilis to a bit of a higher standard to keep his emotions in check in the middle of a pennant race.

[Dojji]

Youk snapping and getting suspended for 5 games during one of the most pivotal stretches of the season doesn't need to happen.

 

I'd say it's on par with the time Jacoby hurt his shoulder on a diving play in the outfield and had to sit out awhile. Sure it didn't have to happen, but the way the guy plays sometimes it happens anyway. You want to try to tell Youkilis he needs to play with less passion and intensity, you might take him off the rest of his game.

 

I'm not going to say that the suspension was at all productive, or even that it had a silver lining. I wouldn't change the parts of Youkilis that led to that suspension though.

[TheKilo]

I'd say it's on par with the time Jacoby hurt his shoulder on a diving play in the outfield and had to sit out awhile. Sure it didn't have to happen' date=' but the way the guy plays sometimes it happens anyway. You want to try to tell Youkilis he needs to play with less passion and intensity, you might take him off the rest of his game.[/quote']

 

Really? We're making this leap now?

 

Stop trying to rationalize this, please.

[CrespoBlows]

I'd say it's on par with the time Jacoby hurt his shoulder on a diving play in the outfield and had to sit out awhile. Sure it didn't have to happen, but the way the guy plays sometimes it happens anyway. You want to try to tell Youkilis he needs to play with less passion and intensity, you might take him off the rest of his game.

 

I'm not going to say that the suspension was at all productive, or even that it had a silver lining. I wouldn't change the parts of Youkilis that led to that suspension though.

 

What? Are you serious?

[BoSox21]

I'd say it's on par with the time Jacoby hurt his shoulder on a diving play in the outfield and had to sit out awhile. Sure it didn't have to happen, but the way the guy plays sometimes it happens anyway. You want to try to tell Youkilis he needs to play with less passion and intensity, you might take him off the rest of his game.

 

I'm not going to say that the suspension was at all productive, or even that it had a silver lining. I wouldn't change the parts of Youkilis that led to that suspension though.

 

you're better than that

[Dojji]

And in all that outraged flibberdyjibber, none of you actually managed to rebut the point.

 

Why is the suspension worse than any of the number of other ways Youks could have lost those 5 games?

 

For that matter, why is a 5 game suspension being treated like a full blown disaster? We've had similar suspensions for this and that in each of the past few seasons. Good players too. Heck, this isn't even the first time Youks has been suspended. Stuff like this happens to any team over a 162 game season.

 

It's just an incidental hazard of playing the game. Stupid? Sure. Unnecessary? Sure. A crisis worth 20 pages of frantic wibbling? Not really.

[BoSox21]

And in all that outraged flibberdyjibber, none of you actually managed to rebut the point.

 

Why is the suspension worse than any of the number of other ways Youks could have lost those 5 games?

 

Do we really have to explain the difference between Youkilis being suspended 5 games for charging the mound and Youkilis missing 5 games cause he injured his shoulder diving for a line drive? Seriously?

[TheKilo]

I think it's more of shock that you would even go to that point.

 

It's pretty easy to refute. When Jacoby Ellsbury dives for balls, it's because he's trying to record outs, which in turn help his baseball team win ballgames. When Ellsbury tries to steal bases, it's a risky proposition but he's trying to change the outcome of a game, an inning, or even a particular play.

 

When Kevin Youkilis charged the mound, the play was already dead and its outcome determined. He had been awarded first base. It's not like he was going to be given second base because he charged the mound.

 

I find every time a player charges the mound to be a selfish act. Crisp acted selfishly last season. The difference? It was the first week of June, and there was still plenty of games to make up for the time that he lost. There was time to make up the ground that could have been lost due to Coco's absence.

 

Youkilis charged the mound in game number 112. There were 50 games left after his incident, and he was suspended for 10% of them. In a WC race that could be decided by 1 or 2 games, not having your best offensive and defensive player in there for those 5 games could be crucial.

[Dojji]

No I do get it, the difference is that Youkilis comes back fully healthy after the suspension. I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion at hand.

 

You seem to be trying very hard to find a way that some of what's happening to this team is somehow Youkilis' fault. Him missing 5 games is unfortunate but no matter what you or Kilo say that's really about the worst you can say about it. I'm not having him play the scapegoat here. There's a long line of Sox players who rate that kind of treatment before Youks does.

 

Did I want him charging the mound in that or any other situation? No. But there's a lot of other boneheaded things this team and its players do that I feel about the same way about. There would be 27 "is f***ing selfish" threads if I wanted to rant about all the things someone conntected to this team did which I didn't like or I thought were detrimental to the team -- 1 for each man on the 25 man roster, 1 for Tito, 1 for Theo.

 

In the end, this is a little thing. The only reason to still be talking about this is the love of a good discussion combined with a desperate decision to accept an ersatz substitute for one

[Dojji]

When Kevin Youkilis charged the mound, the play was already dead and its outcome determined. He had been awarded first base. It's not like he was going to be given second base because he charged the mound.

 

That's the closest thing you have to a good point. I much prefer players to get their "revenge" by winning the game. However, while this play was dead, Youkilis did accomplish one thing by rushing the mound -- he got Porcello out of the game and replaced him with the guy we tied the game off of. Not saying that doing that was worth a 5 game suspension, but if you're going to pull out an argument that said it didn't affect the outcome of that game, it's pretty clear to me that it did.

 

Youkilis charged the mound in game number 112. There were 50 games left after his incident, and he was suspended for 10% of them. In a WC race that could be decided by 1 or 2 games, not having your best offensive and defensive player in there for those 5 games could be crucial.

 

I think the problem has more to do with how Tito replaced Youkilis than the actual suspension. We have a capable cadre of corner infielders with or without Youks, between Lowell, Kotchman and Martinez. Tito seems to have decided to use the suspension to get needed rest for other veterans (notably Drew), instead of putting the best lineup he still could out there until his star hitter got back.

 

And even in the worst case, there's still 45 games to go, we have Youks back, and we're still in position to make a move for the playoffs.

 

I don't like that he was suspended, but I just don't see why we need to invent a crisis over it.

[Cocos Disciples]

And in all that outraged flibberdyjibber, none of you actually managed to rebut the point.

 

Why is the suspension worse than any of the number of other ways Youks could have lost those 5 games?

 

For that matter, why is a 5 game suspension being treated like a full blown disaster? We've had similar suspensions for this and that in each of the past few seasons. Good players too. Heck, this isn't even the first time Youks has been suspended. Stuff like this happens to any team over a 162 game season.

 

It's just an incidental hazard of playing the game. Stupid? Sure. Unnecessary? Sure. A crisis worth 20 pages of frantic wibbling? Not really.

 

Seussian.

[schillingouttheks]

That's the closest thing you have to a good point. I much prefer players to get their "revenge" by winning the game. However, while this play was dead, Youkilis did accomplish one thing by rushing the mound -- he got Porcello out of the game and replaced him with the guy we tied the game off of. Not saying that doing that was worth a 5 game suspension, but if you're going to pull out an argument that said it didn't affect the outcome of that game, it's pretty clear to me that it did.

 

 

 

I think the problem has more to do with how Tito replaced Youkilis than the actual suspension. We have a capable cadre of corner infielders with or without Youks, between Lowell, Kotchman and Martinez. Tito seems to have decided to use the suspension to get needed rest for other veterans (notably Drew), instead of putting the best lineup he still could out there until his star hitter got back.

 

And even in the worst case, there's still 45 games to go, we have Youks back, and we're still in position to make a move for the playoffs.

 

I don't like that he was suspended, but I just don't see why we need to invent a crisis over it.

 

We're not inventing a crisis. If you don't think having Youkilis, a star player on this team, on the shelf for 5 games during one of the most important stretches of the season isn't a big problem, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

 

"Crisis" is not an accurate word. If we make the playoffs, I'll be elated. IF WE MISS OUT BY 2 OR 3 GAMES, I think EVERYONE should be pointing at Youk's suspension as the first thing that was most easily avoided that realistically would have changed our playoff status. Youkilis didn't take himself out of the game with the intent to give the team a better chance of winning. He f***ed up, it happens, but it should have been avoided given the point in the season. He should know this. Yes, as someone said, it's just another drop in the piss that has been this season, but it's by far the most avoidable and dumbest of the things that happened. If we miss out on the playoffs by 5 or 6 games, then I obviously won't point to this, but missing out by a couple games would most definitely make me revisit this.

 

Say whatever you want about Mike Lowell coming in to replace him and doing well, but Youk didn't plan that. More importantly, our 2-3 record with him gone while losing 2 of those games by no more than 2 runs is a big problem to me.