Lugo benched?

[RobiForMVP]

Lugo is better then nick green...both have horrible gloves and both aren't exactly magicians with the stick but i would trust lugo more then green

 

Agreed.

Though if Lugo could EVER get on base he'd be a nice addition in any lineup

Maybe if he works on hitting he could be a Brett Gardner. .290 guy 35-45 steals

[ORS]

I'm pretty sure Lugo and his career .335 OBP requires no work to match the Brett Gardner .290 OBP level of transcendent out making awesomeness.

[Dipre]

If Lugo could be a Brett Gardner then he should be traded for a bag of balls, 3 bats and a one-week supply of Coppenhagen brand chewing tobacco.

[chakes17]

Agreed.

Though if Lugo could EVER get on base he'd be a nice addition in any lineup

Maybe if he works on hitting he could be a Brett Gardner. .290 guy 35-45 steals

If lugo was a brett gardner like guy he would be WORSE then he already is which is saying a lot.

[SCM33]

Vizquel signed a minor league deal with Texas for the 2009 season.

 

As far as Lowrie, hes a nice player, but not him or Green or Lugo or Vizquel are the long term answer to the revolving door that is SS for the Boston RedSox.

 

Kilo, there really is no right or wrong answer between the three players we are talking about. All of them are below average major leaguers, its really a matter of preference I guess since none of them are really all that much of an improvement of each other.

 

A question to maybe take this thread in a new direction, do you really believe Lowrie is the future, or just the guy slotted to play SS this season, since every year its somebody new?

 

I said this on 5/9.

 

I still think he will be on the Sox radar. He will cost us nothing but spare parts, and his defense is superior to Lugo/Green.......and that is the biggest concern with SS for us.

[TheKilo]

SS is not the biggest concern to this team, David Ortiz is.

 

Why do people think SS is such a liability?

[jacksonianmarch]

its reactionary. Lugo made a big gaffe and now everyone hates him. I think the press is willing to fix on a common enemy without actually looking at the true problem on the team

[Dipre]

SS is not the biggest concern to this team, David Ortiz is.

 

Why do people think SS is such a liability?

 

Because neither Julio Lugo nor Nick Green can catch the f***ing baseball with any regularity.

 

Julio Lugo just plain sucks.

 

Nick Green is a 2B playing out of position.

[TheKilo]

Because neither Julio Lugo nor Nick Green can catch the f***ing baseball with any regularity.

 

Julio Lugo just plain sucks.

 

Nick Green is a 2B playing out of position.

 

But they aren't the biggest concern on this team. Why doesn't anyone recognize this?

 

They are a convenient excuse to deflect from the actual problem with this team.

[Dipre]

But they aren't the biggest concern on this team. Why doesn't anyone recognize this?

 

They are a convenient excuse to deflect from the actual problem with this team.

 

The problem with Ortiz can be fixed my simply moving him down in the order, which Francona and his stubborn huge dome refuse to take action on.

 

The SS problem is something the Sox can not fix internally, and the defensive ineptitude is killing this team.

[TheKilo]

Moving Ortiz down in the order does nothing.

 

If he can't hit in the 7th spot, what do you do then? If he can't hit in the 8th spot, what do you do then?

 

The problem isn't where he's hitting, it's that he can't hit.

[TheKilo]

Also RE: defensive ineptitude - Mike Lowell is one of the worst defensive 3B in all of baseball this season and is sporting a tidy .318 OBP.

 

He deserves a lion's share of the blame too.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

So if he can't hit, why should he be kept in the 3 spot?

[jacksonianmarch]

that doesnt fix the problem. The problem is, you have a DH who cannot hit. Ortiz has a .309 OBP and a .309SLG. His K rate is 26%. Meaning, he isnt reaching base, he isnt hitting for power and he isnt even making contact. Thats your designated hitter. The entirety of his job is to hit. He brings nothing else tangible to the field.

[TheKilo]

So if he can't hit' date=' why should he be kept in the 3 spot?[/quote']

 

Why should he be moved? What benefit comes of it?

[jacksonianmarch]

the only benefit would be less ABs.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Why should he be moved? What benefit comes of it?

....

the only benefit would be less ABs.

 

If he sucks at hitting, then it might be a good idea for him to get less ABs. Also, Jason Bay's production might be even more valuable if he were to slide into the 3 spot in place of Ortiz, and actually provide quality cleanup hitting.

[La mujer bonita]

But they aren't the biggest concern on this team. Why doesn't anyone recognize this?

 

They are a convenient excuse to deflect from the actual problem with this team.

 

Well, I don't think that's actually true. We all recognize that David Ortiz has become a strikeout-groundout machine, but a) there is no reason to think that's the New Ortiz for now and ever, and it's a pretty easy fix if anyone can make themselves do it-give him an MRI, say there's something maybe still wrong with the wrist, DH him and let him work it out in Pawtucket. (Who knows, he and ARod are friends, maybe he can gett ahold of some of whatever designer roids Rodriguez is using now, or even hook up with Andy Pettitte's dad. Kidding, Sox fans, kidding! Yankee fans, not so much.) Whereas Lugo has a track record of suck in this town, and Nick Green is simply playing out of position. They may not be the biggest concern, but any time you have a poorly performing SS it's still a big concern.

[Cocos Disciples]

Both are concerns, but when your DESIGNATED HITTER (a position that is solely for hitting, mind you) cannot hit, that's a problem.

[TheKilo]

How many fewer ABs does it result in over the course of a season? 25? 30? BFD.

[Dipre]

How many fewer ABs does it result in over the course of a season? 25? 30? BFD.

 

It's not the number of ABs, it's the number of times he finds D-Ped and Ells on base and fails miserably to drive them in.

 

Maybe we should bat him behind 'Tek.............he doesn't get on base, so there's no chance to drive him in.

[BoSox21]

yea, Tek pretty much either hits it out or heads back to the dugout. Minimal damage

[TheKilo]

It's not the number of ABs' date=' [b']it's the number of times he finds D-Ped and Ells on base and fails miserably to drive them in[/b].

 

Maybe we should bat him behind 'Tek.............he doesn't get on base, so there's no chance to drive him in.

 

How many times has this happened to the point where the runs don't score?

[Dipre]

How many times has this happened to the point where the runs don't score?

 

I can name 4 times off the top of my dome.

 

Friday (Loss),Saturday (Loss), the extra-innings game at Anaheim (Loss, 80% his fault), the Chamberlain game we almost lost (Win).

[SCM33]

How much longer do we have to endure?

[Dipre]

For the love of God, get JJ Hardy no matter the cost!

[Dojji]

I'm gonna shock everyone by agreeing.

 

Nerdy answer: Our SS situation is deplorable and if we look internally for a fix we're way too dependent on Jed Lowrie to hit at a level he has never sustained for a full season (not saying could or couldn't, just that he's never actually DONE it). I don't think you can count on Lowrie to the exclusion of other solutions. Especially with Lowell and Varitek already candidates for large late-season dropoffs and no production coming from the DH spot with no idea when that's likely to change. Too many things aren't falling our way offensively for us not to make some kind of move, and Hardy's a better short-term and long-term move than most.

 

Besides filling multiple immediate needs at once as a power hitting shortstop, Hardy is a solid long term acquisition to fill a hole we need filled over multiple seasons. And he hits well enough that if we still want to break the bank for Hanley when he starts to get too rich for Florida's blood in a year or so we can do that and let the two of them sort out who moves to third base at Lowell's expense.

 

Also the price tag isn't going to be low, but Milwaukee has enough needs that we should be able to tempt them with enough B-list prospects (Daeges, Bell, Wagner, Richardson) that are ready or close to ready to keep the A-list losses down. Pretty sure you could get it done with at Mike Bowden and a supporting piece (Bowden and Wagner would be a very fair price IMHO for Hardy's services and both would help fill Milwaukee's organizational needs)

 

Short answer: We badly need a power bat and SS is a spot we can improve by subtraction as well as by addition and a fair deal for Hardy doesn't kill us long-term. Get 'er done.

[Spudboy]

It's pitiful. The FO has to eat it here. They spent way too much on someone who not only does not contribute regularly, but actually costs the team almost every time he takes the field. He probably can't be moved. Sit his ass down and use him as a pinch runner and occasional pinch hitter. Then drop him at season's end and eat the remainder of the contract. Come on Lowrey!

[BoSox21]

trade for Vizquel.....wait for Lorie....option Green.....drive Lugo off a cliff....problem sovled

[SCM33]

Not Michael Young, but Texas does has another guy who is more appealing, who I wish the Sox took a stab at. Omar Vizquel.

 

Look, when all things are said and done....Green, Lugo and Vizquel are all poor offensive players (at this point for Vizquel, who was pretty solid offensive SS years back), so you look at perhaps the most important aspect of the position, defense.....and even 42 years old, Omar is heads and feet above the rest. Plus, you play him in a platoon with one of the other guys so you are not relying on a 42 year old to play SS everyday.

 

I said this on 5/9/09 and basically got laughed at for it haha.

 

This situation is not fair for Lowrie either, He is not our savior, he is not good enough to be. There is a ton of pressure on the kid when he comes back, and frankly Im a little nervous for him.

 

Vizquel this year:

51 AB

.333 BA

.370 OB%

2 SB

5 of his 17 hits are for Extra bases.

 

He has played SS, 3B and 2B this season, and has not made an error yet. How is this guy not a perfect fit for the disaster we have right no? Cut Lugo, eat his 6M remaining this year, and the 9M remaining next year, he is useless......no point in having him around when someone like Vizquel is out there.