Sox close to signing Penny

[Dipre]

He might make teams around him better, but "seemingly top 10" is just ridiculous.

 

Put him on the Nats, and they'll be Top 10, you presume?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

And in 2008' date=' without Tex, they were 1st....[/quote']

Epic fail.

[BoSox21]

Epic fail.

 

I dont deny that Tex improves whatever lineup he's in but don't point out Texas' ML rank in runs scored with him in the lineup as an argument, its just dumb

 

and enough with the goddamn fail and epic fail on this board. You might as well call someone the weakest link and tell them goodbye, same freshness

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I dont deny that Tex improves whatever lineup he's in but don't point out Texas' ML rank in runs scored with him in the lineup as an argument, its just dumb

 

and enough with the goddamn fail and epic fail on this board. You might as well call someone the weakest link and tell them goodbye, same freshness

You didn't fail. The post you quoted failed.

 

 

 

But now you have failed. You failed to interpret my fail post correctly. Good fail to you, sir.

 

 

On second thought, after reading your post again, I guess I failed.

[Dipre]

You didn't fail. The post you quoted failed.

 

 

 

But now you have failed. You failed to interpret my fail post correctly. Good fail to you, sir.

 

Fail wins again........

[riverside sluggers]

Bill James prediction for Penny.

 

(8-7, 3.92 ERA)- 21 starts, 130 innings, 134 Hits, 12 HRs, 42 Walks, 90 Ks

[diony]

Bill James prediction for Penny.

 

(8-7, 3.92 ERA)- 21 starts, 130 innings, 134 Hits, 12 HRs, 42 Walks, 90 Ks

 

These projections don't account for the league switch and park. He uses the data of previous seasons to make the prediction.

[ORS]

Well, "he" doesn't do anything. His system does. Currently, Bill James' projections are the work of Baseball Info Solutions, run by John Dewan (STATS, Inc.). And, that projection accounts for some of it, as they neutralize previous years to account for home park and league prior to putting the data in the projection system.

 

Neutralized stats are a good proxy for what you could expect from a player's road performance, with a minor adjustment for league. I'd take that from our 5th starter. Of course, I have no faith in the projection system. It says Phil Hughes will lead the Yankee rotation with a 3.35 ERA.

[Cocos Disciples]

ORS-James has a part in the hitter projections right? I think he opts not to make pitcher projections because of the huge margin of error.

[ORS]

I recall reading that. And, I think if you look in a search engine, you can find him quoted saying he doesn't project pitchers.

[Fenways Faithful]

Im not saying tex is a bad player at all. i think he is an all star player and i was scared to death of him in the playoffs, even though he choked against us with the rest of his team. i was just saying that i would rather not have him on our team. if you watch him play his is very subtle about how cocky he is. so in the end i just didnt want to end up cheering for him and im glad he is a yankee cuz i can hate him even more now. And in all honestly if everyone is gonna get scared about the yankees buying all the all star free agents obviously you guys havent watched how it just doesnt work. in the end im not scared of the yankees. big deal they got CC, Burnett, Tex whats freaking new im more concerned with a team that plays together as a team like the Rays.

[Fenways Faithful]

Don't take this wrong but please, FF.., stop helping.. :dunno:

 

He does kinda sorta maybe just a little have a point on Teixeira. You can cite lack of opportunity, but that "makes the team around him better" thing that some superstars seem to have? There's no particular evidence Teixeira has it. He's been a leader on a lot of talented losers in Texas and while that might be more the fault of screwup GM's than anything else he's actually been on a couple good clubs recently and got them nowhere they haven't been before either.

 

That wouldn't matter in Boston where we pretty much know who the team leaders are, but other than Jeter and Mo I'm not sure how all these Yankees fit together from year to year and sometimes from the sounds of it they aren't either.

 

also Dojji if you think sitting here posting on this website all day or cherring for the red sox is helping im sorry for you. dont get me wrong i love coming to this site because you can find the best news about the sox here but in no way is this helping. so dojji dont take this wrong but im sorry to tell you none of us are helping.

[TheKilo]

I actually think he was agreeing with what you said earlier in the thread...

[mvp 78]

Bill James prediction for Penny.

 

(8-7, 3.92 ERA)- 21 starts, 130 innings, 134 Hits, 12 HRs, 42 Walks, 90 Ks

 

I'm imagining a much higher ERA. No way does he finish a full year under 5.00 in the AL East. The only thing he gives us is depth, but I think I'd rather take my chances with Clay in the back of the rotation.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'm imagining a much higher ERA. No way does he finish a full year under 5.00 in the AL East. The only thing he gives us is depth' date=' but I think I'd rather take my chances with Clay in the back of the rotation.[/quote']

 

Wouldn't surprise me at all if he finished with a sub 5 ERA.

[Dipre]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if he finished with a sub 5 ERA.

 

Wouldn't blow me away if he finished with sub-4 ERA, either.

[mvp 78]

Wouldn't surprise me at all if he finished with a sub 5 ERA.

 

Well, I live in LA and have seen a lot of evidence to prove otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I hope he puts up CY Young numbers. I just don't see it happening.

 

His big problem is that he overthrows and gets himself tired rather quick. He's got decent velocity and movement, but gets knocked around quite a bit.

 

Remember, Josh Beckett had a long adjustment period before he settled in to life in the AL.

[Cocos Disciples]

Well, I live in LA and have seen a lot of evidence to prove otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I hope he puts up CY Young numbers. I just don't see it happening.

 

His big problem is that he overthrows and gets himself tired rather quick. He's got decent velocity and movement, but gets knocked around quite a bit.

 

Remember, Josh Beckett had a long adjustment period before he settled in to life in the AL.

 

One year?

[mvp 78]

One year?

 

How long is his deal for again?

[Cocos Disciples]

How long is his deal for again?

 

Fair enough. However, Beckett and Penny are under pretty different circumstances.

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, I live in LA and have seen a lot of evidence to prove otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I hope he puts up CY Young numbers. I just don't see it happening.

 

His big problem is that he overthrows and gets himself tired rather quick. He's got decent velocity and movement, but gets knocked around quite a bit.

 

Remember, Josh Beckett had a long adjustment period before he settled in to life in the AL.

 

Voice of reason. I watched Penny a lot in 07 and thought his stuff was fantastic. But his results werent. He gets hit far too well for a guy with his stuff. Is it a lack of control in the zone? Is it fatigue? Who knows.

[BoSox21]

Well, I live in LA and have seen a lot of evidence to prove otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I hope he puts up CY Young numbers. I just don't see it happening.

 

His big problem is that he overthrows and gets himself tired rather quick. He's got decent velocity and movement, but gets knocked around quite a bit.

 

Remember, Josh Beckett had a long adjustment period before he settled in to life in the AL.

 

The concern of Penny returning from major shoulder surgery vastly exceeds the concern of Penny being a career NLer.

 

I think the fact that AL hitters are unfamiliar with Penny plays to his advantage. Beckett didn't have a tough go cause he was coming from the NL, he had a tough first year cause he threw a stupidly high amount of fastballs

[example1]

Voice of reason. I watched Penny a lot in 07 and thought his stuff was fantastic. But his results werent. He gets hit far too well for a guy with his stuff. Is it a lack of control in the zone? Is it fatigue? Who knows.

 

His results weren't very good that year, huh?

 

Player A: 16-4, 208 IP, 3.03 ERA, 151 ERA+, 1.308 WHIP

Player B: 18-10, 221 IP, 4.07 ERA, 105 ERA+, 1.342 WHIP

 

Player A was from 2007, Player B was from 2008. Player A finished 3rd in Cy Young voting and pitched in his second consecutive All-Star game. Player B just had his 'breakout' season and is the 6th highest paid pitcher in baseball.

 

I would say player A's stuff (Penny, that is) was pretty good.

[Cocos Disciples]

I don't really see how 08 was Burnett's breakout year. I would say it was his worst full season.

[mvp 78]

You can cherry pick stats if you'd like. I just know from what I've seen. Shoulder surgery plus switching leagues plus a high WHIP isn't a player I'd be overly confident on.

 

Also, "stupidly throwing a high amount of fastballs" is what most pitchers (cough cough Brad Penny) are used to throwing in the NL. (Remember, Schill had to develop a changeup when coming here.) He's pretty hard headed and would be reluctant to change. His off speed pitches aren't nearly as good as Beckett's.

[example1]

I don't really see how 08 was Burnett's breakout year. I would say it was his worst full season.

 

I guess I was referring to his ability to get K's and his IPs more than anything. He continued some of the success he had in 2007 and did it for 220 IP. I'll take back the words "breakout".

[BoSox21]

Burnett had a lovely month of September in an opt-out year just to make his ERA respectable, whoop dee f***ing do

[Redguitar985]

I think Theo signed Penny because he doesn't trust Buccholz enough to put him back in the rotation, and he wants Masterson backing up Papelbon. If he ends the year with a .500 record and a 4-4.5 ERA, I think it's a successful deal.

[schillingouttheks]

I think Theo signed Penny because he doesn't trust Buccholz enough to put him back in the rotation' date=' and he wants Masterson backing up Papelbon. If he ends the year with a .500 record and a 4-4.5 ERA, I think it's a successful deal.[/quote']

 

Sooooo basically being Tim Wakefield would be successful?

[Redguitar985]

Sooooo basically being Tim Wakefield would be successful?

 

For half a season maybe, until Buccholz or another prospect can fill in.