With AJ and CC in NYC now does that make them the fav. in the east?

[MANNYHOF24]

The numbers back up the assertion that the yankees had the better pen with a ridiculously higher workload. It therefore should be assumed that a lesser workload would lead to similar or increased effectiveness. And Masterson was good out of the pen last yr' date=' nobody will deny that. I think it is difficult to say that he's closer material right now, though, when he struggled vs lefties.[/quote']

 

Wait, Materson closer? I am missing something, did we trade Papelbon? :harhar:

[Cocos Disciples]

Is Aardsma even gone?

[riverside sluggers]

The numbers back up the assertion that the yankees had the better pen with a ridiculously higher workload. It therefore should be assumed that a lesser workload would lead to similar or increased effectiveness. And Masterson was good out of the pen last yr' date=' nobody will deny that. I think it is difficult to say that he's closer material right now, though, when he struggled vs lefties.[/quote']

 

You do realize that the Red Sox were forced to use (more than they wanted to) these now ex-Red Sox-- Timlin, Aardsma (he will be in ST but he'll be fighting for the last spot in the bullpen), Chris Smith, Craig Hansen. So therefore the Red Sox will have improved their bullpen

 

Using the stats of the 08 bullpen is pretty much useless to make your case, that the Yankees 09 bullpen will be heads and shoulders over the Red Sox

[diony]

2008 stats, yankees vs sox bullpens

 

Yankees- 543IP (6th in MLB ) 3.78ERA (7th in MLB ) 477H 523K 213BB .235BAA(2nd lowest in MLB ) 1.27WHIP (4th in MLB ) 2.46K/BB (3rd in MLB ) 8.66K/9IP (2nd in MLB )

 

Despite the fact that they had Ross Ohlendorf and Latroy Hawkins with ERAs over 5.50 pitching more than 40 IPs.

 

The Yanks bullpen is solid, and it has so much depth in the minors. Scouts say Mark Melancon is a future closer, and there's a lot of other guys with upside waiting. And of course there's Mo.

 

But don't forget the Red Sox bullpen now has Ramirez, he's their 8th inning guy. Along with MDC and Masterson. Lopez can handle leftys and well Littleton can throw garbage innings. But still, I think Epstein could have done a better job with the pen.

[ORS]

I could go into a Rip Van Winkle type sleep and not need to look out the window nor at the calendar to know what month it is. I can figure that out solely by the tenor of Jacko's posts.

 

"Oh, I see he's telling us how much better the Yankees are. Must be mid-December after some headline grabbing FA acquisition. Time to go Christmas shopping."

 

Kennedy is tearing up the DWL? Stop, you had me at "Hello".

[Gom]

I could go into a Rip Van Winkle type sleep and not need to look out the window nor at the calendar to know what month it is. I can figure that out solely by the tenor of Jacko's posts.

 

"Oh, I see he's telling us how much better the Yankees are. Must be mid-December after some headline grabbing FA acquisition. Time to go Christmas shopping."

 

Kennedy is tearing up the DWL? Stop, you had me at "Hello".

 

Exactly. The Yankees and Sox are pretty much dead even at this point. Factor in full seasons from all players on both teams, and its a flip of a coin.

[Cocos Disciples]

And that's what makes it fun. The Rays are right in there too.

[ORS]

Particularly if they get Milton Bradley. They've already upgraded RF by acquiring Joyce from Detroit for Edwin Jackson. Joyce can do everything better than Gabe Gross. Bradley will boost their production at DH and give them some OF depth. The loss of Jackson is irrelevant since Price is ready to take a rotation spot, and they've got other arms should Sonnanstine's pixie dust wears off (book it) or Kazmir spends some time on the shelf (likely). Where I expect them to have a rough go of it is in their BP. I'll be shocked if they end up getting the same performance from that crew. Individual BP performance has a lot of variance from year to year. Everyone was "on" last year. They'll need continued good fortune to be as good as they were in '08.

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

Particularly if they get Milton Bradley. They've already upgraded RF by acquiring Joyce from Detroit for Edwin Jackson. Joyce can do everything better than Gabe Gross. Bradley will boost their production at DH and give them some OF depth. The loss of Jackson is irrelevant since Price is ready to take a rotation spot' date=' and they've got other arms should Sonnanstine's pixie dust wears off (book it) or Kazmir spends some time on the shelf (likely). Where I expect them to have a rough go of it is in their BP. I'll be shocked if they end up getting the same performance from that crew. Individual BP performance has a lot of variance from year to year. Everyone was "on" last year. They'll need continued good fortune to be as good as they were in '08.[/quote']

 

Rays right now are the second best team in AL East behind NYY.

[Cocos Disciples]

I bet the Blue Jays are ahead of us too. They signed Matt Clement while we're sitting on our asses. lulz

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

I bet the Blue Jays are ahead of us too. They signed Matt Clement while we're sitting on our asses. lulz

 

No, the Jays lost their second best starter. But our GM not having a clue is worse then sitting on our asses.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox need a starting pitcher. Beckett needs to bounce back and Ortiz and lowell are come off injuries. Drew still has back issues. No more Manny to anchor the lineup. The yankees will probably eventually sign him, giving them a killer offense to go with a strong rotation. The Sox should sign Teixeira. He's a must sign. The guy is a stud.

[Cocos Disciples]

No' date=' the Jays lost their second best starter. But our GM not having a clue is worse then sitting on our asses.[/quote']

 

Okay.

[cobra24]

A lot of denial here guys. Last yr I conceded prior to the yr that the yankees were not as good as the sox, and I was right. Last yr was a transition yr. This yr, though, the only thing that will stop us is the injury bug. Think about it.

 

Lets say that pettitte signs and the brewers and yanks complete the Cameron deal. Take a look at this lineup.

 

1. Johnny Damon CF

2. Derek Jeter SS

3. Alex Rodriguez 3B

4. Hideki Matsui DH

5. Jorge Posada C

6. Nick Swisher 1B

7. Xavier Nady RF

8. Robinson Cano 2B

9. Mike Cameron CF

 

The lineup has one superstar in ARod and the rest of the lineup is solid. Potential for 20 homers from every slot. Spots 9-3 have 20+ SB speed. Spots 1-6 all have the potential ofr a .370-.400+ OBP and Cameron is a top 10 P/PA guy. All 9 spots have players capable of having 80+ RBI. And, the lineup is very balanced. It isnt an all star lineup at every position and if the sox get Tex it wont match their production. But it is solid and reminds me a lot of the lineups we had during the WS runs. The only thing that will be of concern is health as it will be a pretty old lineup. The backups arent terrible but are a significant dropoff.

 

The rotation would be dominant

 

1. C.C. Sabathia

2. Chien-Ming Wang

3. A.J. Burnett

4. Andy Pettitte

5. Joba Chamberlain

 

show me a better rotation? CC, Wang and Pettitte would be near locks for 200IP so long as no freak accident occurs. Burnett, CC and Chamberlain are the power pitchers, and if healthy should put up huge K numbers if healthy. The contingency plans are solid as well and instead of our contingencies starting the yr in the rotation, they will start in AAA (Hughes, Aceves and Kennedy who is lights out in the DWL right now). And then, in the playoffs, you have to face a rotation of Sabathia, Burnett, Chamberlain and Wang. Unreal.

 

The pen:

Closer Rivera

Setup Marte

RP Veras

RP Ramirez

RP Coke

RP Bruney

 

with Robertson, Geise, Aceves, Sanchez, Melancon and Robertson fighting to round out the pen. Rivera is coming off his best season yet and Marte had a good finish with us after battling elbow issues. Bruney and Veras have lights out stuff. Ramirez proved he could miss bats and keep his WHIP low. Coke showed he could be dominant in limited time. The depth is solid as well. When you consider that this pen wont be burned out in theory if the rotation stays intact, then they should be even better than last yr.

 

I think we caught up to, and if we have good health, surpassed the sox this offseason.

 

1. Johnny Damon CF - .300 age 35

2. Derek Jeter SS - .300 age 34

3. Alex Rodriguez 3B - .302 age 32

4. Hideki Matsui DH . .294 age 34

5. Jorge Posada C - .268 age 37

6. Nick Swisher 1B - .219 age 28

7. Xavier Nady RF - .268 when coming to the AL. dont forget he is a career .280 in the NL. age 30

8. Robinson Cano 2B- .270 age 26

9. Mike Cameron CF - is not on your team yet..

 

oh and for you Marte lovers... im pretty sure his ERA when coming to AL again was 5.40. thats solid!

 

not going to lie, thats not a very solid line up like you all like to think. on top of everything, you guys are building for right now. you guys are all old. even Jeters numbers are DOWN and we all know how good A Rod is in the playoffs, STUD i tell you. wow, those numbers a great.

 

My fav. thing is you guys spend all this money and still suck! its amazing. maybe one day you guys will get that you cant buy a ring... oh and i cant forget this, when you guys tell one of the greatest coaches of all time to go f*** him selfs and get mmmmm, oh yeah thats right Joe Girardi.. yup great move! doesnt it just piss you off that Torre took the dodgers into the playoffs. you got to love that.

 

oh and one last thing.. 2008- Red Sox team avg. .280, yankees .271

[Cocos Disciples]

lol

[Dipre]

Just a clarification, but Ian Kennedy is not pitching in the DWL.

 

That's Dominican Winter Leagues, and he's pitching in Puerto Rico, which is a far inferior league btw, but nevertheless he's pitching good.

[jacksonianmarch]

1. Johnny Damon CF - .300 age 35

2. Derek Jeter SS - .300 age 34

3. Alex Rodriguez 3B - .302 age 32

4. Hideki Matsui DH . .294 age 34

5. Jorge Posada C - .268 age 37

6. Nick Swisher 1B - .219 age 28

7. Xavier Nady RF - .268 when coming to the AL. dont forget he is a career .280 in the NL. age 30

8. Robinson Cano 2B- .270 age 26

9. Mike Cameron CF - is not on your team yet..

 

Oh where to begin. First of all, you post as if there is a magical number at which time the player loses all their ability. Well, there isnt. Most players age gradually and have a slow decline. Others lose it all at once. I would be lying to you if I said that every one of the above mid 30 something guys would put up career norms. But at the same time, the older guys are on short deals so they are easily replaced. I have conceded the fact that we will be susceptible to the injury bug, and that is one thing that age does predispose you to.

 

Second off, you are posting batting average, which is a rather meaningless stat. I like OPS and OBP.

 

Third, Swisher and Cano had career lows at a young age, something I would like to think is an aberrancy.

 

Fourth and final. You downplay Nady because he had .268 in the AL while he started off .330 in the NL. What gives? Hitters typically have less of an adjustment than pitchers do. How bout you point that out.

 

Regardless, I have conceded that the offense will be susceptible to injury. That being said, infusing a healthy Matsui and Posada as well as a likely rebound of Swisher and Cano should see this team's offense go from a high 700s run scoring team to a mid 800s, even with the loss of the streaky Giambi and Abreu.

 

oh and for you Marte lovers... im pretty sure his ERA when coming to AL again was 5.40. thats solid!

 

He was rested for a 2 week stretch about 2 weeks after we got him because of elbow inflammation. After that time, he was lights out. Overall, his season #s were dynamite. So yes, I love the guy and think he will eat your lefties for lunch next yr.

 

not going to lie, thats not a very solid line up like you all like to think. on top of everything, you guys are building for right now. you guys are all old. even Jeters numbers are DOWN and we all know how good A Rod is in the playoffs, STUD i tell you. wow, those numbers a great.

 

Lets break down that lineup, shall we? Just for those without the IQ to process logic?

 

1. Johnny Damon- .303/.375/.461 in 08. .286/.362/.448 over last 3 yrs. He had a solid yr last yr and over his yankee stay he has been very solid. He gets on base, he has improved his power and he still hits for a decent average. Yes, he is 35, but he is not showing any signs of worsening production. If he stays healthy, I would think he could put up a .290/.365/.450 season once again.

 

2. Derek Jeter- .300/.363/.408 in 08. .322/.390/.448 over last 3 yrs. Jeter finished the yr strong, but one thing that worries me is that even though he hit .322 to finish off the yr, the power never returned (IsoPatience of .100 throughout the yr). I dont doubt that he can get on base at a good clip and get base hits, I just think the yrs of being up there in doubles may be going away. I dont think .290/.355/.400 is out of the realm of possibility if he stays healthy

 

3. Alex Rodriguez- .302/.392/.573 in 08. .302/.403/.581 over last 3 yrs. He missed some time this past yr with a quad injury and did his usual every other yr performance dip. I expect another MVP caliber yr from ARod in 09. I dont think .310/.405/.610 is out of the question

 

4. Hideki Matsui- .294/.370/.424 in 08. .291/.372/.479 over last 3 yrs. Pre-All Star he was hitting .324/.404/.458 and then he was injured. He came back a shell of the player he was and eventually couldnt hobble around anymore on the knee. If he is healthy, I expect him to have a pretty standard Matsui yr, except the power started to dip prior to the injury and I think it might dip further. I dont think .300/.370/.450 is out of the question.

 

5. Jorge Posada- .268/.364/.411 in 08. .303/.396/.503 over past 3 yrs. We all know Posada was hurt from day 1 and his 08 stats are pretty useless. I also think we all know that his 07 stats were likely an aberration. What I dont think is an aberration is his ability to continue to hit for solid power out of the C position, if he can catch, and to continue to get on base. The offensive downgrade from Posada to Molina was crippling. I dont think .275/.380/.480 is out of the question assuming he plays everyday and can catch. If the labrum is still an issue, then i dont doubt his ability to get on base, but his power will suffer

 

6. Nick Swisher- .219/.332/.410 in 08. .246/.363/.454 over last 3 yrs. I have a hard time believing that this guy would continue to be this bad. For those who like sabermetrics, his LD% was high and his BABIP was low, meaning he was likely unlucky. A few things I love about Swisher. He led the league in P/PA, but 0.2, which is quite a margin. He also has routinely put up .11-.12 Isopatience and .19-.23 IsoPower, making his predictions pretty easy. Batting him low in the order, putting him in a lefty friendly park and surrounding him with players who get on base and drive in runs leads me to believe that he can get back to his .250 baseline in BA. I project him to be around... .250/.365/.450, and I dont think there is anyone who would say that that is totally unrealistic.

 

7. Xavier Nady- .305/.357/.510 in 08. .289/.343/.481 over last 3 yrs. People like to rag on his yankee stats, but what I find rather funny is that when we were still in it, Nady was the balls. He had a 1.040 and .874OPS in July and August. He sucked in September, but we were already out of it by then. He's 30, so he is in his prime and he has always proven to be a solid right handed power threat. He is not the .330 hitter he was in Pittsburgh. But he has now put up 3 consecutive seasons with rising OPS (.790-.806-.867) and 2 consecutive seasons of .300+ BA. I dont think he will repeat that in a full season of playoff baseball, but projecting a .800 OPS isnt out of the realm of possibility. .290/.340/.460 is below his last 2 yrs production, but is that a safe projection? Why not.

 

8. Robinson Cano- .271/.305/.410 in 08. .304/.340/.471 over last 3 yrs. Who knows what you are gonna get out of Robby. When he's on, he is a dangerous hitter. When he's off, he is an automatic groundball to 2b. He oozes talent and can play a good 2b, but he is so impatient it boggles the mind. That being said, .300 really seems like his baseline IMO. His career BA is .303. 2 of his 4 seasons he has been within 6 points of .300. And after his abysmal April, he hit .298. I dont think a projection of .300/.335/.440 is out of the realm of possibility, and hell, it is likely underestimating Cano's ability since a projection of .775OPS would be below his OPS attained in 3 of his first 4 yrs.

 

9. Mike Cameron- .243/.331/.477 in 08. .251/.339/.462 in last 3 yrs. Cameron has been remarkably consistent. Right around a .800OPS pretty much his entire career. I think he'd probably dip under that being in a lefty friendly park, but that being said a .240/.325/.470 line isnt out of the realm of possibility.

 

Now take a look at the above lineup. If they all stay healthy, we should see all 9 players be above average. We should see one superstar with a 1.000+ OPS and 8 guys who should have OPS's near or above .800. How can you say that that lineup isnt that good? The sox essentially did the same thing when their team OPS was .805. I expect something similar and as long as they stay healthy, I dont think there are too many people who will object to that notion. The question is health and I do not disagree with anyone who says that health will or could or might be our downfall. I'd have no retort to that. But to say that the lineup in and of itself isnt any good is stupid when all 9 guys should enter ST healthy.

 

My fav. thing is you guys spend all this money and still suck! its amazing. maybe one day you guys will get that you cant buy a ring... oh and i cant forget this, when you guys tell one of the greatest coaches of all time to go f*** him selfs and get mmmmm, oh yeah thats right Joe Girardi.. yup great move! doesnt it just piss you off that Torre took the dodgers into the playoffs. you got to love that.

 

oh and one last thing.. 2008- Red Sox team avg. .280, yankees .271

 

Wow, got me. I just cannot retort those points. Wow. Yeah, buying players didnt do us any good. Tell Reggie Jackson and Catfish Hunter that. How about Babe Ruth, that guy did okay. And ask Roger how many rings he had and to what team he needed to go to so he could get them. The point is, having money is a major advantage for a team like the yankees. And the Red Sox used the recent Yankee model to buy their 2004 championship. Then they used the true yankee model of buying players at spots that their farm couldnt develop. That is what won them 2007 and that is why they are in a state of likely sustained success at this point. Regardless, the yankees just finished their first non playoff yr since 1994, which was the strike shortened yr and a yr in which we probably could have won the title. So whatever model they used was pretty good. Last offseason, we didnt buy anybody and we ended up in 3rd place. Does that mean that our model last offseason was no good and that we are righting the wrongs of yrs past and now should be back in the playoffs? You see, your logic is flawed. You are nothing but a bandwagon sox fan who cannot actually have a credible, intellectual conversation about the team's we love. You are the sox version of Gom.

[example1]

I think it is fair to say that both teams have great lineups and solid rotations. If the Yankees didn't have a good rotation and lineup then they would have wasted a shitload of money.

 

Jacko, this isn't a debate that is winnable, because the best team is the one that wins on the field, not the one that looks best when phrased this way or that. The Yankees have a good team, but the Red Sox won the WS two years ago and almost got there last year while the Yankees sat home spanking it.

 

Nobody here is going to bow down to the dominance of guys like A-Rod and Jeter and Posada because those guys weren't enough to get them there last year and they're a year older. Meanwhile, nobody is going to tremble at the idea of facing CC or Burnett, because we've seen them before too; just like you won't shake at the Sox having Beckett or Dice K because the Yankees have beat both of them in the past.

 

I think you should maybe just give up these attempts to pat yourself on the back for being a fan of a good baseball team. Your team spends more money than any other team in baseball and it isn't close. Your team is playing the playstation game on "easy" while other teams are playing on "medium" or on "difficult". The Sox take pride in maximizing their players' value, the Yankees take pride in showcasing the best the world has to offer. Two different approaches with the same goal in mind: to win.

 

The last few years your team hasn't been as successful at that as the Red Sox have, and ultimately winning is what speaks the loudest.

 

Do I think the Yankees have a great team? Yes. I think they underperformed last year, but they had a great team last year too. Their pitching is much improved, but only because they got the good pitchers from other teams, not because they did anything particularly impressive. They said "here CC, we're going to give you more money than just about any athelete in any sport", then they said "here Burnett, we're going to pay you more money than any Red Sox player makes, and the Red Sox are universially seen (correctly) as being big spenders." It isn't impressive, it's a playstation team, year in and year out. If you like that kind of thing then great, but it isn't like they're winning some chess match here. They're buying supermodels.

 

I'm saying that with full knowledge that the Sox have purchased a number of marquee players to get where they are too, they just don't whore themselves out quite as blatently.

[Cocos Disciples]

This

maybe one day you guys will get that you cant buy a ring

is wrong. You can buy a ring, but you need to use the money wisely. It hasn't worked for the Yankees because they haven't done that.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think it is fair to say that both teams have great lineups and solid rotations. If the Yankees didn't have a good rotation and lineup then they would have wasted a shitload of money.

 

Jacko, this isn't a debate that is winnable, because the best team is the one that wins on the field, not the one that looks best when phrased this way or that. The Yankees have a good team, but the Red Sox won the WS two years ago and almost got there last year while the Yankees sat home spanking it.

 

Largely because the injury bug hit us hard. Losing 1 and 1a in your rotation will do that to you. If both the yankees and sox were healthy, fully healthy, this past yr it would have been a close race to the finish, and the rays would have finished 3rd. I highly doubt that that Rays team would have beaten us both out if the yankees had Wang for the whole yr, Joba in the rotation without the arm issues, Hughes without the fracture rib, Posada behind the dish, ARod for the whole yr, and Matsui at DH. I also doubt that the Rays beat out the sox without a full yr from Schilling, Lowell, Papi, Beckett, and Drew.

 

 

Nobody here is going to bow down to the dominance of guys like A-Rod and Jeter and Posada because those guys weren't enough to get them there last year and they're a year older.

 

correction: Posada WASNT there last yr.

 

Meanwhile, nobody is going to tremble at the idea of facing CC or Burnett, because we've seen them before too; just like you won't shake at the Sox having Beckett or Dice K because the Yankees have beat both of them in the past.

 

It isnt just the head to head, though. It is all about how we do vs the rest of the league. Remember, our rotation was in the shithole with guys like Rasner and Ponson starting games vs you guys and we still split the season series 9-9. It is about how we do vs the rest of the east, the central, the west, interleague etc.

 

I think you should maybe just give up these attempts to pat yourself on the back for being a fan of a good baseball team. Your team spends more money than any other team in baseball and it isn't close. Your team is playing the playstation game on "easy" while other teams are playing on "medium" or on "difficult". The Sox take pride in maximizing their players' value, the Yankees take pride in showcasing the best the world has to offer. Two different approaches with the same goal in mind: to win.

 

The yankee money advantage will help significantly if we spend it wisely. I think investing in pitching, especially younger, high power, high end pitching is a good idea. In yrs past, we were going for the 40+ age club as well as signing contact pitchers with sketchy health issues. At least the guys we are going for nowadays will blow you away if they are healthy. Nothing like hearing Pavano is coming back and then watching him throw 91mph sinkers down the middle all game long. When AJ or CC are pitching, we'll be seeing some serious cheese.

 

The last few years your team hasn't been as successful at that as the Red Sox have, and ultimately winning is what speaks the loudest.

 

The sox won the big trophy 2 of the last 4 yrs. That is what I want. I saw my team win 4 in 5 yrs and make the WS 6 of 8 yrs. It starts with making the playoffs and then navigating from there. And since 94, we have only missed the playoffs once. I have a feeling we'll be back in 09.

 

Do I think the Yankees have a great team? Yes. I think they underperformed last year, but they had a great team last year too. Their pitching is much improved, but only because they got the good pitchers from other teams, not because they did anything particularly impressive. They said "here CC, we're going to give you more money than just about any athelete in any sport", then they said "here Burnett, we're going to pay you more money than any Red Sox player makes, and the Red Sox are universially seen (correctly) as being big spenders." It isn't impressive, it's a playstation team, year in and year out. If you like that kind of thing then great, but it isn't like they're winning some chess match here. They're buying supermodels.

 

It isnt impressive in the way they got them. I agree. What will be impressive is when you come in to the Bronx for a 4 game series and have no Rasner's or Ponson's to give you an easy game. Imagine coming to NY for a 4 game and seeing CC, Wang, Burnett and Joba in 4 straight.

 

I'm saying that with full knowledge that the Sox have purchased a number of marquee players to get where they are too, they just don't whore themselves out quite as blatently.

 

The yankees do spend more on their players, that much is true. But lets not paint the sox as being a poor team, cmon now. Their 2004 team had only one home grown starter on it. They were a team of mercs who needed the ultimate merc to put them over the top. That being said, we do spend a lot and in recent yrs, that spending has been more bad than good. But I think we are following the sox blueprint for once. Develop the farm system, grab power pitchers capable of going deep into games and build a moneyball style offense with guys who grind ABs. Consider this the shot over the bow. The yankees are coming for the east title.

[TheKilo]

Despite the fact that they had Ross Ohlendorf and Latroy Hawkins with ERAs over 5.50 pitching more than 40 IPs.

 

The Yanks bullpen is solid, and it has so much depth in the minors. Scouts say Mark Melancon is a future closer, and there's a lot of other guys with upside waiting. And of course there's Mo.

 

But don't forget the Red Sox bullpen now has Ramirez, he's their 8th inning guy. Along with MDC and Masterson. Lopez can handle leftys and well Littleton can throw garbage innings. But still, I think Epstein could have done a better job with the pen.

 

Okajima?

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

Largely because the injury bug hit us hard. Losing 1 and 1a in your rotation will do that to you. If both the yankees and sox were healthy, fully healthy, this past yr it would have been a close race to the finish, and the rays would have finished 3rd. I highly doubt that that Rays team would have beaten us both out if the yankees had Wang for the whole yr, Joba in the rotation without the arm issues, Hughes without the fracture rib, Posada behind the dish, ARod for the whole yr, and Matsui at DH. I also doubt that the Rays beat out the sox without a full yr from Schilling, Lowell, Papi, Beckett, and Drew.

 

 

 

 

correction: Posada WASNT there last yr.

 

 

 

It isnt just the head to head, though. It is all about how we do vs the rest of the league. Remember, our rotation was in the shithole with guys like Rasner and Ponson starting games vs you guys and we still split the season series 9-9. It is about how we do vs the rest of the east, the central, the west, interleague etc.

 

 

 

The yankee money advantage will help significantly if we spend it wisely. I think investing in pitching, especially younger, high power, high end pitching is a good idea. In yrs past, we were going for the 40+ age club as well as signing contact pitchers with sketchy health issues. At least the guys we are going for nowadays will blow you away if they are healthy. Nothing like hearing Pavano is coming back and then watching him throw 91mph sinkers down the middle all game long. When AJ or CC are pitching, we'll be seeing some serious cheese.

 

 

 

The sox won the big trophy 2 of the last 4 yrs. That is what I want. I saw my team win 4 in 5 yrs and make the WS 6 of 8 yrs. It starts with making the playoffs and then navigating from there. And since 94, we have only missed the playoffs once. I have a feeling we'll be back in 09.

 

 

 

It isnt impressive in the way they got them. I agree. What will be impressive is when you come in to the Bronx for a 4 game series and have no Rasner's or Ponson's to give you an easy game. Imagine coming to NY for a 4 game and seeing CC, Wang, Burnett and Joba in 4 straight.

 

 

 

The yankees do spend more on their players, that much is true. But lets not paint the sox as being a poor team, cmon now. Their 2004 team had only one home grown starter on it. They were a team of mercs who needed the ultimate merc to put them over the top. That being said, we do spend a lot and in recent yrs, that spending has been more bad than good. But I think we are following the sox blueprint for once. Develop the farm system, grab power pitchers capable of going deep into games and build a moneyball style offense with guys who grind ABs. Consider this the shot over the bow. The yankees are coming for the east title.

 

The quote about the Yankees spending on his part not yours is proposterous! The Angels didn't re-sign K-rod at a 3 year 37 mil bargain. My point is if you don't spend your not going to be in it year after year. The Yankees want to win and you know what? I respect them for going out there and trying. The Redsox are the second richest team year after year team salary wise. Facts our owner is worried about the f***ing race cars Yankees are worried about horses atop the rotation. Thats why we are going down.

[Cocos Disciples]

I am convinced that this is a joke account.

[BoSox21]

The quote about the Yankees spending on his part not yours is proposterous! The Angels didn't re-sign K-rod at a 3 year 37 mil bargain. My point is if you don't spend your not going to be in it year after year. The Yankees want to win and you know what? I respect them for going out there and trying. The Redsox are the second richest team year after year team salary wise. Facts our owner is worried about the f***ing race cars Yankees are worried about horses atop the rotation. Thats why we are going down.

 

The Yankees have been spending big every off-season for the better part of a decade now and have won jack s***. The Red Sox are the only team to have won twice. Why do you continue to speak as if the opposite is true?

 

They added CC who won't give them anything significantly better than what Mussina gave them last year. They added AJ who can't stay healthy and has averaged slightly below a 4.00 ERA in the American League. They added Swisher who batted .219 last year.

 

And they've lost two core hitters from what was already a pretty meh lineup last year, production they haven't replaced at all and unless something unforeseen happens, production they won't replace.

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

The Yankees have been spending big every off-season for the better part of a decade now and have won jack s***. The Red Sox are the only team to have won twice. Why do you continue to speak as if the opposite is true?

 

Manny and Ortiz aren't here anymore. Atleast the real Ortiz this year has 81 and 81 written all over it.

[BoSox21]

Manny and Ortiz aren't here anymore. Atleast the real Ortiz this year has 81 and 81 written all over it.

 

What does this even mean?

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

What does this even mean?

 

We aren't that good right now.

[cobra24]

I guess you werent watching last year. we did just fine with out manny. he's a hell of a player, but we almost got into the WS with out him and dont forget Papi was hurt. i bet he will go right back to being a .300+, 35 HR and 120+ RBI's. also, bay did just fine and had a pretty good playoffs for his first time, well i believe it was his first.

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

I guess you werent watching last year. we did just fine with out manny. he's a hell of a player' date=' but we almost got into the WS with out him and dont forget Papi was hurt. i bet he will go right back to being a .300+, 35 HR and 120+ RBI's. also, bay did just fine and had a pretty good playoffs for his first time, well i believe it was his first.[/quote']

 

No doubt. But here's my theory.

 

1.They are playing the catchers market by ear. Thats not a position you f*** around with.

2. The bottom of the rotation stinks. Wakefield, Buccholz is awful! Bowden I only seen once. So basically I've seen enough of Fakefield after a pair of UNACCEPTABLE game 4 outings in consecutive years. And Buccholz is too small to hold up in MLB.

3. The bottom of the order can't hit.

4. Ortiz is done bank it.

5. Epsteins loyalty to royal chokers ala Wakefoield, Timlin and Nopez.

6. No improvments for the second straight year.

[Cocos Disciples]

No doubt. But here's my theory.

 

1.They are playing the catchers market by ear. Thats not a position you f*** around with.

2. The bottom of the rotation stinks. Wakefield, Buccholz is awful! Bowden I only seen once. So basically I've seen enough of Fakefield after a pair of UNACCEPTABLE game 4 outings in consecutive years. And Buccholz is too small to hold up in MLB.

3. The bottom of the order can't hit.

4. Ortiz is done bank it.

5. Epsteins loyalty to royal chokers ala Wakefoield, Timlin and Nopez.

6. No improvments for the second straight year.

 

1. Doubt it.

2. Wakefield is a really good back end starter, and I bet Masterson is your #5.

3. If we get Tex, the bottom of the order could be Bay-Lowrie-Catcher.

4. He's declining, but not done. He was hurt most of last season and should be better.

5. If you were trying to type "Wakefold" you could have at least spell-checked. Timlin is gone. Don't really see the Lopez hate.

6. It's December 13.