With AJ and CC in NYC now does that make them the fav. in the east?

[cobra24]

Is much as i dont want to say thi, im thinking they might be. we havent really done anything to improve are team. i sure hope Theo makes a big splash coming up.

 

Tell me what you ALL are thinking?

[User Name]

I would think absolutely, until Theo removes his thumb from his ass.

[Cocos Disciples]

I don't think there is a favorite. You could put the top three in any order and make a good case for all of them.

 

But really you guys are worrying way too much. It's only December, and there's a good chance we sign Teixeira, and maybe even Lowe. Good thing you guys aren't the GM or we would have just traded the top five prospects for Peavy.

[Redsox20042007Celtics2008]

I don't think there is a favorite. You could put the top three in any order and make a good case for all of them.

 

But really you guys are worrying way too much. It's only December, and there's a good chance we sign Teixeira, and maybe even Lowe. Good thing you guys aren't the GM or we would have just traded the top five prospects for Peavy.

 

If I was the GM. I'd tell the owner our cleanup hitter is declining faster then expected. Just pay the f***ing guy Texiera w/e his name is. And Varitek would be re-signed if I can't get Napoli.

[Cocos Disciples]

Our cleanup hitter is Youkilis, how is he declining? Don't give up on Tex yet, just because it didn't get done at the Meetings doesn't at all mean it won't get done; I would still call the Sox the favorites. As for Napoli, I guess he's interesting but I doubt we'll get him.

[a700hitter]

we havent really done anything to improve are team.

Theo made two Rule 5 acquisitions yesterday. That should even the playing field.

 

Yes, the Yankees are the favorites in 2009 after these acquisitions. The Sox need another starter, maybe two, if Beckett turns yellow down the stretch again. Re-treads like a post surgical Smoltz or a broken down Penny are not the answer. It reminds me of the days when they picked up damaged goods like Saberhagen and Ramon Martinez to complement Pedro.

[PATS12RULE]

I don't think you can name a clear favorite; strong cases can be made for the Yanks, Sox, and the Rays. None of these teams are perfect, it all depends on your point-of-view.

[CrespoBlows]

Wow. It's f***ing December 13th.

[MANNYHOF24]

Wow. It's f***ing December 13th.

 

Did we win 95 games last year, with the team we have now or am I delusional?

[Gom]

I disagree. The Yankees are not the favorite, nor are they the underdog.

 

I think they have effectively closed the gap between them and the Rays. I think it's a tossup.

 

Red Sox have a better lineup. It's not even close.

 

Yankees have a better rotation. It's not that close, either. While Beckett and Lester are good, solid pitchers, the Yankees can currently trot out CC, Wang, AJ, Joba, and probably Pettitte or Hughes. The Yankees have the best starting rotation in baseball.

 

The Red Sox have a slight edge in the pen. Both of them are top 5 in baseball.

 

The difference is what happens from NOW. If the Sox get Tex, they win the AL East. If the Yankees get Tex/Manny, they win the East.

 

Keep in mind. CC=Mussina when looking at last year to this coming year. AJ>Pettitte, same as before. Giambi+Abreu>Swisher+Return of Matsui.

 

The Yankees are still not as good as they were last year. However, banking on a return to form from Wang and Chamberlain, and the gap is non-existent.

[Cocos Disciples]

The difference is what happens from NOW. If the Sox get Tex, they win the AL East. If the Yankees get Tex/Manny, they win the East.

 

Well, it gives them the advantage but anything could happen still.

 

The Yankees are still not as good as they were last year.

 

They're not as good as the 08 Yankees, or the 08 Red Sox?

[schillingouttheks]

I disagree. The Yankees are not the favorite, nor are they the underdog.

 

I think they have effectively closed the gap between them and the Rays. I think it's a tossup.

 

Red Sox have a better lineup. It's not even close.

 

Yankees have a better rotation. It's not that close, either. While Beckett and Lester are good, solid pitchers, the Yankees can currently trot out CC, Wang, AJ, Joba, and probably Pettitte or Hughes. The Yankees have the best starting rotation in baseball.

 

The Red Sox have a slight edge in the pen. Both of them are top 5 in baseball.

 

The difference is what happens from NOW. If the Sox get Tex, they win the AL East. If the Yankees get Tex/Manny, they win the East.

 

Keep in mind. CC=Mussina when looking at last year to this coming year. AJ>Pettitte, same as before. Giambi+Abreu>Swisher+Return of Matsui.

 

The Yankees are still not as good as they were last year. However, banking on a return to form from Wang and Chamberlain, and the gap is non-existent.

 

I refuse to say that the Yanks have the best rotation in baseball until I see AJ pitch consistently and without pulling something every other week. I will also hold off until I see how Joba is as a full-time starter.

 

Depending on what happens from here on out, I think the Sox and Yanks rotations are actually pretty close. Aside from that, I agree with everything else you said, except for the part about the team that signs Tex is essentially the AL East's winner, haha.

[Gom]

The Yankees did not make up the wins they had last year.

 

Major Losses:

Pettitte

Mussina

Abreu

Giambi

 

Replacements:

CC

AJ

Swisher

 

Now...CC and AJ, even last season, had better combined numbers than Pettitte and Mussina. However, the loss of Giambi and Abreu dwarfs what Swisher can bring. The difference between the quartet of pitchers is significant. The difference between the offense is staggering.

 

The thing about Burnett is that out of both rotations, he has the best pure stuff. He led the AL in strikeouts, and many scouts think he turned the corner last year. In fact, last year was a down year statistically. His

 

I'm not one of those people to take a small sample size, but he had a terrible beginning of the year, and his post All-Star Break saw him compile a 2.86 ERA, 1.18 WHIP and 10 K/IP. That dwarfed Beckett, beat Lester, and is comparable to Dice-K [Dice had a better ERA [better pen], but worse WHIP and K/IP].

 

In fact, last year was below his statistical norms. His WHIP and ERA were higher than normal. In fact, due to a terrible first half, his ERA was the highest in his career, not counting his sub-100 IP seasons.

 

His ERA wehn he pitches over 200 IP?

3.30 in 2002

3.45 in 2005

4.07 in 2008

 

This guy is good, bordering on great when he stays on the mound.

[Dipre]

The Yankees did not make up the wins they had last year.

 

Major Losses:

Pettitte

Mussina

Abreu

Giambi

 

Replacements:

CC

AJ

Swisher

 

Now...CC and AJ, even last season, had better combined numbers than Pettitte and Mussina. However, the loss of Giambi and Abreu dwarfs what Swisher can bring. The difference between the quartet of pitchers is significant. The difference between the offense is staggering.

 

The thing about Burnett is that out of both rotations, he has the best pure stuff. He led the AL in strikeouts, and many scouts think he turned the corner last year. In fact, last year was a down year statistically. His

 

I'm not one of those people to take a small sample size, but he had a terrible beginning of the year, and his post All-Star Break saw him compile a 2.86 ERA, 1.18 WHIP and 10 K/IP. That dwarfed Beckett, beat Lester, and is comparable to Dice-K [Dice had a better ERA [better pen], but worse WHIP and K/IP].

 

In fact, last year was below his statistical norms. His WHIP and ERA were higher than normal. In fact, due to a terrible first half, his ERA was the highest in his career, not counting his sub-100 IP seasons.

 

His ERA wehn he pitches over 200 IP?

3.30 in 2002

3.45 in 2005

4.07 in 2008

 

This guy is good, bordering on great when he stays on the mound.

 

But that's the problem Gom, Burnett is a Primadonna, and he won't pitch even for a torn fingernail in his left pinky, your assumption is that he stays on the mound more often than not, and the problem with that is, it's not a contract year, so a lame-ass injury is probably not far off.

[BSN07]

No there not the favorites.

 

They replaced Mussina's production with CC, and added a career 87-76 pitcher.

 

They so far have replaced Abreu's bat with Mike Cameron. Giambi's with Nick Swisher's. And have no idea if there big $ Catcher can actually Catch a whole season.

 

 

The Yanks have plugged some holes in the deck of the ship, but there still plenty more.

 

 

And when Captain Hank is at the wheel, the chances of hitting a rock increase.

 

Take a breath everoyne....

[jacksonianmarch]

A lot of denial here guys. Last yr I conceded prior to the yr that the yankees were not as good as the sox, and I was right. Last yr was a transition yr. This yr, though, the only thing that will stop us is the injury bug. Think about it.

 

Lets say that pettitte signs and the brewers and yanks complete the Cameron deal. Take a look at this lineup.

 

1. Johnny Damon CF

2. Derek Jeter SS

3. Alex Rodriguez 3B

4. Hideki Matsui DH

5. Jorge Posada C

6. Nick Swisher 1B

7. Xavier Nady RF

8. Robinson Cano 2B

9. Mike Cameron CF

 

The lineup has one superstar in ARod and the rest of the lineup is solid. Potential for 20 homers from every slot. Spots 9-3 have 20+ SB speed. Spots 1-6 all have the potential ofr a .370-.400+ OBP and Cameron is a top 10 P/PA guy. All 9 spots have players capable of having 80+ RBI. And, the lineup is very balanced. It isnt an all star lineup at every position and if the sox get Tex it wont match their production. But it is solid and reminds me a lot of the lineups we had during the WS runs. The only thing that will be of concern is health as it will be a pretty old lineup. The backups arent terrible but are a significant dropoff.

 

The rotation would be dominant

 

1. C.C. Sabathia

2. Chien-Ming Wang

3. A.J. Burnett

4. Andy Pettitte

5. Joba Chamberlain

 

show me a better rotation? CC, Wang and Pettitte would be near locks for 200IP so long as no freak accident occurs. Burnett, CC and Chamberlain are the power pitchers, and if healthy should put up huge K numbers if healthy. The contingency plans are solid as well and instead of our contingencies starting the yr in the rotation, they will start in AAA (Hughes, Aceves and Kennedy who is lights out in the DWL right now). And then, in the playoffs, you have to face a rotation of Sabathia, Burnett, Chamberlain and Wang. Unreal.

 

The pen:

Closer Rivera

Setup Marte

RP Veras

RP Ramirez

RP Coke

RP Bruney

 

with Robertson, Geise, Aceves, Sanchez, Melancon and Robertson fighting to round out the pen. Rivera is coming off his best season yet and Marte had a good finish with us after battling elbow issues. Bruney and Veras have lights out stuff. Ramirez proved he could miss bats and keep his WHIP low. Coke showed he could be dominant in limited time. The depth is solid as well. When you consider that this pen wont be burned out in theory if the rotation stays intact, then they should be even better than last yr.

 

I think we caught up to, and if we have good health, surpassed the sox this offseason.

[Dojji]

Take a look at this lineup.

 

1. Johnny Damon CF

2. Derek Jeter SS

3. Alex Rodriguez 3B

4. Hideki Matsui DH

5. Jorge Posada C

6. Nick Swisher 1B

7. Xavier Nady RF

8. Robinson Cano 2B

9. Mike Cameron CF

 

Assuming you mean to have Damon in LF not CF that's a pretty decent lineup but it loses a lot on defense and unless Cano turns it around a bit it's not as strong a lineup as last year, particularly with Cameron's little OBP problem. Also 2 of the players you have listed for positions are very questionable whether they can play them effectively -- Nady in right, and Posada behind the dish. And then there's the ultimate defensive controversy at shortstop.

 

The rotation would be dominant

 

1. C.C. Sabathia

2. Chien-Ming Wang

3. A.J. Burnett

4. Andy Pettitte

5. Joba Chamberlain

 

show me a better rotation?

 

Shields, Garza, Kazmir, Price, Sonnanstine comes pretty close, at least if Kazmir's fully healthy. Also frankly, don't overlook what Beckett, Lester, Matsuzaka, Lowe and Wakefield can do in a good year.

 

The pen:

Closer Rivera

Setup Marte

RP Veras

RP Ramirez

RP Coke

RP Bruney

 

with Robertson, Geise, Aceves, Sanchez, Melancon and Robertson fighting to round out the pen.

 

Everyone listed there is old, marginal, inconsistent, or all three put together. Mariano Rivera will break down one of these days and if he does, that bullpen doesn't have close to the depth you need to survive. This is like us crowing about having Wes Littleton, Edgar Martinez, Devern Hansack and Hunter Jones waiting in the wings.

 

The Red Sox have the Yankees so thoroughly beat in the bullpen department it's silly.

[riverside sluggers]

The division isnt won in the offseason. Last offseason saw Tampa Bay acquire such free agents as Eric Hinske, Troy Percival and Cliff Floyd

[BSN07]

It's not denial. The aqusitions and departures show me that the Yanks are weaker offensively witht he subtraction of Abreu. They added Cameron, but his bat is nothing to write home about. Matsui is going to protect Arod? The Yanks have replaced Mussina's 08 poroduction. And have added a career .537 winning % pitcher.

 

Throw in the health concerns for Damon, Matsui, Posada, and the possible trade of cano. This offense could be very mediocre.

 

The only denial is coming from Yanks fans who think the are far and away better then last seasons team.

[jacksonianmarch]

Everyone listed there is old, marginal, inconsistent, or all three put together. Mariano Rivera will break down one of these days and if he does, that bullpen doesn't have close to the depth you need to survive. This is like us crowing about having Wes Littleton, Edgar Martinez, Devern Hansack and Hunter Jones waiting in the wings.

 

The Red Sox have the Yankees so thoroughly beat in the bullpen department it's silly.

 

2008 stats, yankees vs sox bullpens

 

Yankees- 543IP (6th in MLB ) 3.78ERA (7th in MLB ) 477H 523K 213BB .235BAA(2nd lowest in MLB ) 1.27WHIP (4th in MLB ) 2.46K/BB (3rd in MLB ) 8.66K/9IP (2nd in MLB )

 

Red Sox- 479IP (24th in MLB ) 4.00ERA (11th in MLB ) 447H 418K 201BB .247BAA (9th in MLB ) 1.35WHIP (12th in MLB ) 2.08K/BB (12th in MLB ) 7.84K/9IP (7th in MLB )

 

I would say that the yankees pen had a significantly bigger workload and significantly outperformed the sox pen. And it wasnt even close. The yankees beat the sox so thoroughly that it's silly, to use your terms. And this is without a full yr from Marte, who is lights out when he's healthy.

[riverside sluggers]

The Sox bullpen will be seeing a transition from Timlin to Ramirez, and Aardsma to Littleton. The bullpen is going to have a nice rebound and then some. Ramirez and Littleton are said to be groundball pitchers, especially nice with the solid infield defense behind them

[MANNYHOF24]

2008 stats, yankees vs sox bullpens

 

Yankees- 543IP (6th in MLB ) 3.78ERA (7th in MLB ) 477H 523K 213BB .235BAA(2nd lowest in MLB ) 1.27WHIP (4th in MLB ) 2.46K/BB (3rd in MLB ) 8.66K/9IP (2nd in MLB )

 

Red Sox- 479IP (24th in MLB ) 4.00ERA (11th in MLB ) 447H 418K 201BB .247BAA (9th in MLB ) 1.35WHIP (12th in MLB ) 2.08K/BB (12th in MLB ) 7.84K/9IP (7th in MLB )

 

I would say that the yankees pen had a significantly bigger workload and significantly outperformed the sox pen. And it wasnt even close. The yankees beat the sox so thoroughly that it's silly, to use your terms. And this is without a full yr from Marte, who is lights out when he's healthy.

 

I cant really disagree with you, I will say though the Sox bullpen got alot better after July 31st after a pretty rough start to the season.

[Optimist]

This offense could be very mediocre.

 

I don't know what's funnier, that you actually wrote that or you might actually believe it. It's mid - December and the Yankees have added the top free agent on the market, one of the top pitchers on the market, and, by nearly all indicators, aren't done yet.

 

They added Cameron, but his bat is nothing to write home about. .

 

Yeah, a #9 hitter who can hit 25 home runs and see a ton of pitches per at bat is nothing. I sure wish we had Julio Lugo, Alex Cora, or Jason Varitek to put in there instead.

 

And have added a career .537 winning % pitcher

 

I really hope you're not using this as an indicator of Burnett's talent. Please tell me you're not. First, he was pitching for teams that went 811 - 808 (.501) while he pitched for them. Second, we all know wins are not the best statistic to look at. In three years of pitching in the AL East the highest ERA he's put up was 4.07. He's struck out 525 while walking 191 (a nearly 3:1 ratio.) Oh, and not to mention, when he's on he has some of the best stuff in the game.

 

If you're going to bash him, at least use something relevant like his injury history.

 

The only denial is coming from Yanks fans who think the are far and away better then last seasons team.

 

Hmmm...I wonder why someone would think we're a much better team than last year. Oh yeah...

 

Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, Pettitte, Joba >>> Moose, Pettitte, Joba, Kennedy, Hughes, Rasner, Ponson, etc.

 

Not that pitching is important or anything.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Sox bullpen will be seeing a transition from Timlin to Ramirez' date=' and Aardsma to Littleton. The bullpen is going to have a nice rebound and then some. Ramirez and Littleton are said to be groundball pitchers, especially nice with the solid infield defense behind them[/quote']

 

Ramirez is a wildcard. You really dont know what you are getting with him. But when he's on, he's solid. I would still take Marte, a proven commodity over him right now in terms of bullpen upgrades. Littleton is a GB pitcher, but he sucked last yr and doesnt miss bats in the pen. Something that wont last in BOS. We'll see. I thought the yankees got solid work out of the middle relief guys last yr and they should both see continued success while given a little less in terms of workload. Marte is healthy now and his finish to the yr was downright nasty. And Bruney found another life in our pen last yr. You put Veras, Bruney, Marte, and Coke in the middle, and you have 4 guys who come at you with mid to high 90s cheese and filthy off speed stuff. Mix in Edwar who is a changeup artist and K's > 10/9IP and you have a pen that has depth, matchup ability, and change of pace ability. I am telling you right now. Piggybacking Edwar on top of AJ or CC will screw people into the ground.

[BSN07]

I don't know what's funnier, that you actually wrote that or you might actually believe it. It's mid - December and the Yankees have added the top free agent on the market, one of the top pitchers on the market, and, by nearly all indicators, aren't done yet.

 

 

 

Yeah, a #9 hitter who can hit 25 home runs and see a ton of pitches per at bat is nothing. I sure wish we had Julio Lugo, Alex Cora, or Jason Varitek to put in there instead.

 

 

 

I really hope you're not using this as an indicator of Burnett's talent. Please tell me you're not. First, he was pitching for teams that went 811 - 808 (.501) while he pitched for them. Second, we all know wins are not the best statistic to look at. In three years of pitching in the AL East the highest ERA he's put up was 4.07. He's struck out 525 while walking 191 (a nearly 3:1 ratio.) Oh, and not to mention, when he's on he has some of the best stuff in the game.

 

If you're going to bash him, at least use something relevant like his injury history.

 

 

 

Hmmm...I wonder why someone would think we're a much better team than last year. Oh yeah...

 

Sabathia, Wang, Burnett, Pettitte, Joba >>> Moose, Pettitte, Joba, Kennedy, Hughes, Rasner, Ponson, etc.

 

Not that pitching is important or anything.

 

Sabathia=Mussina production if not less,

Wang coming off injury

Burnett, fine I'll mention the obvious. He's soft

Pettitte is not signed

Joba had tendinitus and shoulder issue after a few months of SP

 

 

There is upside to the Yanks no doubt, but there are alot questions marks as well.

 

 

And yes of course theres alot of time left to add players. I reply was based on the team as constructed now.

[Dojji]

Ramirez is a wildcard.

You really dont know what you are getting with him. But when he's on, he's solid

 

I'll take a wildcard whose only bad year was in Colorado over the consistent suck Timlin provided last year.

 

I would still take Marte, a proven commodity over him right now in terms of bullpen upgrades.

 

No qualms about the job Marte turned in last year in his first foray into the American League East? I know if he was a Sox we'd be worrying about it. If not outright raving that he should be traded and was the next Eric Gagne.

 

Littleton is a GB pitcher, but he sucked last yr and doesnt miss bats in the pen. Something that wont last in BOS. We'll see.

 

Yeah, not counting on much from Littleton, but there was a time that you could say the same about Javier Lopez, and he turned it around nicely.

 

I thought the yankees got solid work out of the middle relief guys last yr and they should both see continued success while given a little less in terms of workload. Marte is healthy now and his finish to the yr was downright nasty. And Bruney found another life in our pen last yr. You put Veras, Bruney, Marte, and Coke in the middle, and you have 4 guys who come at you with mid to high 90s cheese and filthy off speed stuff. Mix in Edwar who is a changeup artist and K's > 10/9IP and you have a pen that has depth, matchup ability, and change of pace ability. I am telling you right now. Piggybacking Edwar on top of AJ or CC will screw people into the ground.

 

That's more than a little optimistic. Sox have similar power arms in Papelbon, Delcarmen, and Ramirez and have just as much change o'pace with Oki. We also have the two most effective non-closers of the group from last year too -- Oki and the Master.

 

If Masterson's in the pen next year it's going to be a contest I have every confidence the Red Sox will win.

[jacksonianmarch]

The numbers back up the assertion that the yankees had the better pen with a ridiculously higher workload. It therefore should be assumed that a lesser workload would lead to similar or increased effectiveness. And Masterson was good out of the pen last yr, nobody will deny that. I think it is difficult to say that he's closer material right now, though, when he struggled vs lefties.

[MANNYHOF24]

You know as fun as it was to watch the Yankees struggle and suck last year, I think it will make the baseball season more interesting with the Yankees as serious contenders. Don't get me wrong, if all these signings blow up in the Yankees face I will be happy, but watching good exciting baseball against hated rivals is much more fun. 2003 through 2004 were collectively my two favorite baseball seasons to follow, and heated, intense passoniate Red Sox Yankees matchups had alot to do with that. I hope we sing Texieira and get another arm, and I think next year could be the best AL race we have ever seen.

[Dojji]

. It therefore should be assumed that a lesser workload would lead to similar or increased effectiveness.

 

Not true, actually. THis is only the case if the workload for the Yankee relievers last year was unreasonable.

[jacksonianmarch]

The entire pen shouldered a ridiculous load last yr. Girardi did a good job of not burning out one specific guy. But the fact that our team's pen threw 70+ more innings than your should give you some insight into the ridiculousness that our rotation was last yr.