Report: Coco Crisp Traded To Royals

[Dojji]

What are you talking about, Kilo? He'll get paid no matter where he goes. A big contract is a virtual constant among all the contenders for his services.

[Cocos Disciples]

He'll also play wherever he goes. The Red Sox will not platoon Teixeira.

[BSN07]

Yeah' date=' they would not sign Tex without a deal in place (or done) with Lowell.[/quote']

 

I disagree. Having Lowell on the team will detour them from inking Tex. They would be dumb to allow the Yankees anytime to come and and grab him. They can move Lowell afterwards. Why trade him and have the deal fall threw?

[Dojji]

You fail to realize that Lowell will not hinder the FO' date=' if Teixeira is someone they want. If the Sox want Teixeira, the only thing to stop them is the Yankees. Moving Lowell is an after thought.[/quote']

 

You're thinking of this only from Theo's perspective. What incentive does Teixeira have to come here?

 

The two things any decent agent looks at when looking at a team are money and playing time. There are other teams out there that are much more likely to offer more of both than we are.

 

The Angels could beat us out with a slightly smaller offer if Teixeira is looking at the presence of Lowell, Ortiz and Youks and Lars and decided he'd rather just be the straight up no screwing around starting 1B for a team that's probably more likely to make the playoffs next year with his help than we are.

 

The weakest link performance wise in a 1B-3B-DH rotation between Papi, Youk, Lowell and Teix is Lowell, who's alsoa team leader in games played per season over the last 3 years and is a manager's guy. It's a murky situation that a good agent might do well to steer a client clear of if having a guaranteed, definite role is an issue.

[Cocos Disciples]

I disagree. Having Lowell on the team will detour them from inking Tex. They would be dumb to allow the Yankees anytime to come and and grab him. They can move Lowell afterwards. Why trade him and have the deal fall threw?

 

Emphasis on "in place". They could have a verbal agreement with a team and then only make it official once Tex is signed.

[Paradisecity]

Really? Agents don't look at the ability to win? The clubhouse? Media Pressure? What their client says he would like to do?

 

Money and time? Thats it.

 

Wow I never knew that was all there was to it.

 

There is no way Mark Teixeira will ever come here now.

 

 

Damn.

[TheKilo]

You're thinking of this only from Theo's perspective. What incentive does Teixeira have to come here?

 

The two things any decent agent looks at when looking at a team are money and playing time. There are other teams out there that are much more likely to offer more of both than we are.

 

The Angels could beat us out with a slightly smaller offer if Teixeira is looking at the presence of Lowell, Ortiz and Youks and Lars and decided he'd rather just be the straight up no screwing around starting 1B for a team that's probably more likely to make the playoffs next year with his help than we are.

 

The weakest link performance wise in a 1B-3B-DH rotation between Papi, Youk, Lowell and Teix is Lowell, who's alsoa team leader in games played per season over the last 3 years and is a manager's guy. It's a murky situation that a good agent might do well to steer a client clear of if having a guaranteed, definite role is an issue.

 

That's not true at all, though. if Teixeira comes here, he's your starting 1B.

 

Ergo, the Sox offer will be no different than any other, and may be more enticing due to their chances of winning a title.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Don't tell me people have been saying that Tex would be part of a platoon if he signs here.

[BSN07]

Don't tell me people have been saying that Tex would be part of a platoon if he signs here.

 

No some think Tex will not come to Boston because there is not spot for him now.

[a700hitter]

This guy walks too many batters. His WHIP of 1.23 is nothing to brag about for a late inning guy.

[Cocos Disciples]

It's not bad though, it's around Masterson level.

[Dojji]

No some think Tex will not come to Boston because there is not spot for him now.

 

 

Pretty much. It's easy to say in vacuum that Tex would definitely get 500 AB's or some other set number but when you start looking at who those at bats would be taken away from it starts becoming harder to make the argument to pay $20M for the upgrade of Teixeira over those players.

 

VoRP doesn't apply here as an actual expression of the value Teixeira would add to this team because we're not dislodging a replacement player. Whether we're moving Youks, Ortiz or Lowell the guy we'd be shifting for Teixeira is a recent all-star performer and above average baseball player in his own right. If you can't see why that diminishes the value we'd actually get from signing Teixeira, God help you.

 

That's why you avoid free agency unless you actually have a hole.

[example1]

You're thinking of this only from Theo's perspective. What incentive does Teixeira have to come here?

 

The two things any decent agent looks at when looking at a team are money and playing time. There are other teams out there that are much more likely to offer more of both than we are.

 

The Angels could beat us out with a slightly smaller offer if Teixeira is looking at the presence of Lowell, Ortiz and Youks and Lars and decided he'd rather just be the straight up no screwing around starting 1B for a team that's probably more likely to make the playoffs next year with his help than we are.

 

The weakest link performance wise in a 1B-3B-DH rotation between Papi, Youk, Lowell and Teix is Lowell, who's alsoa team leader in games played per season over the last 3 years and is a manager's guy. It's a murky situation that a good agent might do well to steer a client clear of if having a guaranteed, definite role is an issue.

 

 

I think the FO would make it abundently clear to Teixeira that he will not have a hard time finding playing time. I could see your argument if you're talking about Mike Lowell, and I bet Lowell's agent would want to know how much the FO sees Lowell playing, but he's under contract so it doesn't really matter what the answer is. They could say "we're going to sit Mike all year" and he would have no recourse.

 

The FO can sell the position to Teixeira with some simple discussion. They can offer him free 1st class plane tickets, an apartment in Boston, a personal chef, an interpreter ( ) and a number of other things to sweeten the deal.

[a700hitter]

It's not bad though' date=' it's around Masterson level.[/quote']Masterson's is not good either. I think the Sox are counting on masterson lwering his WHIP considerably if he is going to be a late inning guy. After 3 years, the 26 yr. old Ramirez has brought his WHIP down to the level of a first year 23 year old Masterson. That's not a good sign.

[Dojji]

And while we're wining and dining and making the hard sell for Teixeira, there's actual open roster spots at first base, including on an Angels team that's about a match for us in terms of being a championship team, just begging for a player of his caliber to go fill them. The Orioles are a wildcard here as well with the hometown connection.

 

Anaheim can match every personal concession that we can offer Teixeira, and probably more considering Los Angeles' huge service base. And while I can't pretend to know Teixeira's mind, going back to be a hometown hero can be a perk all by itself to some.

 

But let's look at it purely from the position of a mercenary free agent baseball player. If the money is equal you had a choice between Larry Luccino's solemn promise they'd work you into the lineup as often as possible vs. going to a place where you're the only realistic option at your position, and the first is in New England and the second is in Southern California, and the chances of making the postseason with either squad is identical, both very high, which one do you go for?

[Cocos Disciples]

Masterson's is not good either.

 

Agree to disagree then.

[example1]

And while we're wining and dining and making the hard sell for Teixeira, there's actual open roster spots at first base, including on an Angels team that's about a match for us in terms of being a championship team, just begging for a player of his caliber to go fill them. The Orioles are a wildcard here as well with the hometown connection.

 

Anaheim can match every personal concession that we can offer Teixeira, and probably more considering Los Angeles' huge service base. And while I can't pretend to know Teixeira's mind, going back to be a hometown hero can be a perk all by itself to some.

 

But let's look at it purely from the position of a mercenary free agent baseball player. If the money is equal you had a choice between Larry Luccino's solemn promise they'd work you into the lineup as often as possible vs. going to a place where you're the only realistic option at your position, and the first is in New England and the second is in Southern California, and the chances of making the postseason with either squad is identical, both very high, which one do you go for?

 

Do you really think that Teixeira doubts whether he would play in Boston? Do you really think he sees the Sox as stupid enough to NOT play Mark Teixeira if they offer him 22m a year? I don't. Teams don't win the WS twice in 4 years by keeping one of the best hitters in baseball on the bench. He just needs to look at the Sox tolerating Manny urinating in the Green Monster to know that the Sox put their best players forward and worry about other s*** secondarily.

 

I really don't think that moving Mike Lowell is the hang up. The hang-up may be closer to what you're highlighting: the draw of LA and the closeness of these teams in terms of competition.

[Cocos Disciples]

By the way, Bill James' predictions for Ramirez in 09 (with KC of course): 3.74 ERA, 1.34 WHIP, 62 K in 67 IP. Not so hot.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I'm not worried about Bill James' predictions.

[Dojji]

Do you really think that Teixeira doubts whether he would play in Boston?

 

He's in no danger of becoming a bench player in a Red Sox uniform, but do you honestly mean to stand there and tell me that he'd play as much in Boston as he would in Anaheim?

 

Playing time is one of those "some things are worth more than money" things for a lot of players, and so is a set guaranteed role.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

He's in no danger of becoming a bench player in a Red Sox uniform, but do you honestly mean to stand there and tell me that he'd play as much in Boston as he would in Anaheim?

 

Playing time is one of those "some things are worth more than money" things for a lot of players, and so is a set guaranteed role.

Assuming Lowell is subsequently moved, who's getting in Teixeira's way for PT? So he sits a few days in September while Lars gets a look. I don't 145 games played vs. 155 games played is a huge deal.

 

And Lowell WILL be gone if Teixeira's signed.

[redsoxrules]

He's in no danger of becoming a bench player in a Red Sox uniform, but do you honestly mean to stand there and tell me that he'd play as much in Boston as he would in Anaheim?

 

.

 

YES

[Dojji]

YES

 

Alright then, we disagree.

 

If Lowell proves unmovable it's very easy to assume that he'd play more in Anaheim, and a player can't just tale LL's word for it that the incumbent will be moved. It might not be possible.

 

Also did I read somewhere that Lowell has limited no-trade protection?

[jacksonianmarch]

I see a lot of you guys think this is a good deal for the sox. I dont think you should. Ramirez is a guy who has very solid stuff and could be a good addition to the pen, but is he worth a Coco Crisp. Coco significantly increased his worth to the sox this past yr. He became a very reliable CFer with a fantastic glove and was good at the dish. I figured his post season #s would have translated into a bit more worth. Instead he gets dealt for a reliever who didnt throw many high leverage innings (Nunes and Soria were 8th and 9th inning pitchers) and who has a questionable past in terms of control and ability to stay healthy. While I think Ramirez is a solid addition, I wonder if this truly was the best the sox could have done. I would have thought that a cost controlled switch hitting gold glove caliber CFer would have garnered more than a reliever with good stuff and one solid yr under his belt. I could have sworn Coco would have been in a deal for a catcher.

[TheKilo]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-coco-crisp-trade

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I see a lot of you guys think this is a good deal for the sox. I dont think you should. Ramirez is a guy who has very solid stuff and could be a good addition to the pen' date=' but is he worth a Coco Crisp. Coco significantly increased his worth to the sox this past yr. He became a very reliable CFer with a fantastic glove and was good at the dish. I figured his post season #s would have translated into a bit more worth. Instead he gets dealt for a reliever who didnt throw many high leverage innings (Nunes and Soria were 8th and 9th inning pitchers) and who has a questionable past in terms of control and ability to stay healthy. While I think Ramirez is a solid addition, I wonder if this truly was the best the sox could have done. I would have thought that a cost controlled switch hitting gold glove caliber CFer would have garnered more than a reliever with good stuff and one solid yr under his belt. I could have sworn Coco would have been in a deal for a catcher.[/quote']

It is a good trade. The Sox unloaded Coco's $5 million salary for next year, and they got a young reliever who has two pretty damn good years under his belt, not counting a hiccup in 2007, and last year allowed 2 home runs in 71 innings and had a sub-three ERA. I'll take it.

[Paradisecity]

MJ, Do you EVER think a new idea that hasn't received much thought is good for the sox?

 

Do you EVER think a new idea that hasn't received much though is bad for the yankees?

 

Just change your name to RosyBifocals and get it over with. You'll be screaming FIRE GIRARDI by July.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am not saying its a terrible trade. I think the sox got a guy who could be a dominant reliever. I just thought on a pure value level, that they got the short end of the stick.

[RedSoxRooter]

Ugh, there are so many things wrong with this thread.

 

First is, do any of you really think the Sox care about unloading (or taking on) 5 Million tiny little dollars? Any argument about money goes out the window so long as the Sox come in behind the Yanks in payroll.

 

And you have to be an idiot to think that if Tex is snagged, that Lowell would be "unmovable". There's a serious shortage of power hitting corner infielders - especially 3rd basemen. Hell, the Phills were trying to get him last year. A LOT of teams would listen to offers and, with a little monetary help, would love to acquire Lowell - even off injury.

 

Why would the Sox trade Lowell before getting Tex??? If they get Tex, bring back Lowell slowly from the DL. Make sure he's right, then trade him later in the season once he's cleared to play every day. He is Mike Lowell by the way - he knows it's a business, he's class all the way. He'd understand. And if something happens to Youk or Tex or even Papi at DH, then we have a super sub 3rd baseman in the wings much like Crisp was in the OF.

 

On that note, I think it's a great trade if Ramirez pitches even decent. Because compared to Timlin, he is an upgrade.

 

As for Ellsbury, what about the fact the Sox gave Pedroia the starting job after letting Loretta go? He did pretty OK. Maybe letting Ells know CF is his will be the kind of thing that jump starts an already solid start into the Damon Jr type player he was hyped as being? This is his shot. Let's find out if the kid can truly play a year on his own.

 

As for Rocco, I like the guy, but if he can only seriously play twice a week and not in 3 games in a row, I'll pass. I like the idea, love the story, but it's too risky.

 

And especially to Crunchy, talk about treating a guy like s*** on the way outa town... There's been nothing but nice remarks in all the Boston outlets about Crisp. They're giving him a chance to be a big fish in a small pond in a contract year. He wanted a trade more than even me! And it probably leaves the door open for him to come back at a time later in his career when he truly is a 4th outfielder. So quit your annoying bitching about the FO office already. You are an idiot if you think the Sox currently are being run by fools who don't know more than you. Do you even know how to write a f***ing paragraph yet?

[BoSox21]

I see a lot of you guys think this is a good deal for the sox. I dont think you should. Ramirez is a guy who has very solid stuff and could be a good addition to the pen' date=' but is he worth a Coco Crisp. Coco significantly increased his worth to the sox this past yr. He became a very reliable CFer with a fantastic glove and was good at the dish. I figured his post season #s would have translated into a bit more worth. Instead he gets dealt for a reliever who didnt throw many high leverage innings (Nunes and Soria were 8th and 9th inning pitchers) and who has a questionable past in terms of control and ability to stay healthy. While I think Ramirez is a solid addition, I wonder if this truly was the best the sox could have done. I would have thought that a cost controlled switch hitting gold glove caliber CFer would have garnered more than a reliever with good stuff and one solid yr under his belt. I could have sworn Coco would have been in a deal for a catcher.[/quote']

 

Jeremy f***ing Affeldt got $4 mil a year on the open market, that should give you an idea of the price of pitching nowadays. If you go outside of your organization for pitching, it's gonna cost you, especially if the guy is a solid reliever who is cost-controlled through 2011 I believe