Manny Wanted to Stay...

[CalvnHobs6]

And to this I say, f*** YOU MANNY RAMIREZ AND SCOTT BORAS.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/08/02/ramxedrez_lobbied_to_stay/

 

Ram?rez lobbied to stay

By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff | August 2, 2008

Of all the Manny moments in Boston, the last ranks as one of the most confounding. Within an hour after Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein informed Manny Ram?rez he had been traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers Thursday, Ram?rez's agent, Scott Boras, called the Sox back, according to a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations. If the Sox dropped the option years on his contract - which they had agreed to do if they traded him - Boras said Ram?rez would not be a problem the rest of the season.

 

For the Sox, the source said, Ram?rez's pledge of good behavior only served as a tacit admission that his disruptive conduct of the last couple of weeks had been calculated, and they had had good cause to suspect more was in the offing if they did not trade him. The Sox told him thanks but no thanks, what was done was done, and pack plenty of sunscreen.

 

The debate over the merits of trading Ram?rez was not going to end last night with a satisfying debut from the new Sox left fielder, which is what Jason Bay delivered in a 2-1, 12-inning win over Oakland. It was not going to end with Ram?rez charming the LA glitterati, which he delivered, too, showing up in shades, a smile, and a No. 99 Dodger jersey. It promises to continue through the summer, over the hot stove of winter, and quite possibly through the day Ram?rez is inducted into Cooperstown and beyond.

 

But for Jason Varitek, the pros and cons of that discussion are not terribly important. This was:

 

"Either way, you had to get to this point and have some closure," said the Red Sox' captain, not long after manager Terry Francona and general manager Theo Epstein had trooped upstairs to answer questions about Bay's arrival and Ram?rez's departure, not necessar ily in that order.

 

"Either Manny's here or he's not," Varitek said. "It became more of an issue of whether or not he was going to be here. And he was pretty adamant he didn't want to be here.

 

"It came down to his happiness. If they had come to Manny and he said he wanted to stay here, he'd probably still be here. It's kind of out of our hands. I'm glad there's a resolution. There was going to be whether he was here or not."

 

Truth is, if John W. Henry had cast the deciding vote, Ram?rez might not have been frolicking in Chavez Ravine last night. Henry, whose life has been defined by his mastery of numbers, was unconvinced the Sox would be better off without those generated by Ram?rez's bat. But in the end, Henry elected to give his support to Epstein and his baseball operations staff.

 

His people believed they had no choice but to trade a player who was bent not on forcing the Sox to pick up his $20 million option for 2009, as many thought, but, in their view, was willing to do anything - including laying down on the job - to achieve the opposite outcome: becoming a free agent with no strings attached.

 

In that sense, Ram?rez won. To get him to agree to a trade, the Sox had to waive the two option years on his deal. But even after letting it be known they were willing to pick up the remaining $7 million of his salary this season, the Sox were not overwhelmed with offers for the 36-year-old slugger. In that respect, it was reminiscent of 2003, when the Sox placed Ram?rez on irrevocable waivers and any team could have had him for a song - and they all passed.

 

But while one member of the hierarchy expressed regret that the Sox helped Ram?rez to achieve his goal, Epstein and Francona were clearly pleased - and relieved - that in the final minutes before the trading deadline, they were able to engineer a three-way deal with the Pirates and Dodgers.

 

"We were in a bit of a difficult circumstance and we made something good of it," said Epstein, who was in Anaheim two weeks ago when Ram?rez balked at boarding the bus taking the team to the airport and a flight to Seattle.

 

"I heard about that," Varitek said. "I didn't see it."

 

The acts, and words, of defiance seemed to multiply quickly thereafter.

 

Ram?rez refused to play a game in Seattle, citing a sore knee about which he'd said nothing to the trainers. When he elected to sit out the first game back at Fenway Park, against the Yankees, ownership insisted on MRIs on both knees, and when those tests came back clean, it threatened disciplinary action if he sat out the next night.

 

That's when Ram?rez stepped up the rhetoric - the "they're tired of me, I'm tired of them" diatribe, and the "they don't deserve me" zinger - and his teammates could no longer block out the white noise of discontent. That led to what Mike Lowell described as a "weird atmosphere."

 

"He's not a press guy," Lowell said. "And when you see his quotes every day, that's something different. I don't think it's surprising, but it was weird.

 

"If Dustin Pedroia said the same comments, we think he's a Martian. If Manny says it, people like it. It's front[-page] news."

 

Losing two of three to the Yankees, then being swept by the Angels, the series finale an ill-focused embarrassment, only added to the sense that something needed to be done. The Sox had lived through 2006, when Ram?rez claimed patellar tendinitis left him unable to perform for basically the last six weeks of the season.

 

They judged a similar risk was at hand.

 

"It's very hard to tangibly evaluate how hurt someone is," Lowell said. "I'd like to, and still do, take his word for it, until someone comes up to me and says, 'I faked the injury.' It's kind of like Barry Bonds. Everyone has crucified him, but I still have to believe he's innocent until someone proves him guilty."

 

Was Ram?rez hurt? "You don't know," Varitek said, "but it was clear he was unhappy here. And we needed a productive Manny Ram?rez."

 

The Sox in the past had always backed off from trading Ram?rez. This time they decided there was too much risk in keeping him. Epstein came away elated that the Sox were able to emerge from the process with a quality left fielder, the kind they expected would be in short supply this winter.

 

"[Ram?rez] had a remarkable run here," Epstein said after asserting he would not engage in finger-pointing at one player. "His whole career was remarkable. He is one of the best righthanded hitters in history, and no one can ever take that away from him."

 

The loss of that player, for David Ortiz, was hardly the cause for celebration. His answers were short, flat, and delivered without the trace of a smile.

 

"We got to fight through it," Ortiz said. "We'll see. Hopefully, everything will start going good, everybody moves on, and we go where we are supposed to be."

 

The words seemed to lack conviction.

 

There was no mistaking the belief in Francona's words, however, that better days lie ahead.

 

"We want an atmosphere," he said, "where good players want to do the right thing.

 

"I was very pleased. What we care about, all of us together, is our team, and I think we sit here feeling pretty good about our team."

[RedSoxRooter]

Only Manny can ask not to be traded after he's already been traded.

[Soxfan1]

Ram?rez was cool with me yo.

[yeszir]

Absolutely laughable.

[Jayhawk Bill]

"It's very hard to tangibly evaluate how hurt someone is," Lowell said. "I'd like to, and still do, take his word for it, until someone comes up to me and says, 'I faked the injury.' It's kind of like Barry Bonds. Everyone has crucified him, but I still have to believe he's innocent until someone proves him guilty."

 

Now exactly why is Mike Lowell taking opportunity of this sound bite to defend Barry Bonds? :dunno:

 

Data point...

[Beaneater]

Now exactly why is Mike Lowell taking opportunity of this sound bite to defend Barry Bonds? :dunno:

 

Data point...

 

D'oh.

[YAZMAN]

"If Dustin Pedroia said the same comments, we think he's a Martian." - Mike Lowell

 

So Pedro,

 

Tanner Boyle,

 

and now we can add

 

http://thedailycolumn.com/forum/images/avatars/5140876347b0e1729c243.gif

 

The Great Gazoo to the list of nicknames.

 

 

Dum dums!

[YazsTripleCrown]

My only hope is that, Frank refuses to sign anymore of Boras's declining players. Since that will never happen. I figure he'll be back next year and spend his remaining years on the DL like all the others.

[Rdsxmbnt]

That's BS, Manny signed a contract with TEAM options NOT player options. The club has every right to exercise those options if they want to.

[Cocos Disciples]

So now he wants to retire a Dodger. Too bad that won't happen either.

[Gom]

How many of you think that this was all Boras?

[YazsTripleCrown]

How many of you think that this was all Boras?

 

 

After Drew's sudden change of mind and going to Boston the other year. I have no doubt is was all Boras. I hope someday these owners will just refuse to sign his players and let them sit out a season for their / his greed. I will give credit to him for getting the most for his clients. Though I despise him for his methods and tactics. I hope he rots in hell someday.

[Gom]

Well, what makes me think that it was is that Manny signed with Boras AFTER the deal with Boston, so if the team picked up his options, he wouldn't get a penny of that action.

[BSN07]

Well' date=' what makes me think that it was is that Manny signed with Boras AFTER the deal with Boston, so if the team picked up his options, he wouldn't get a penny of that action.[/quote']

 

Exactly. i don't see it as all Boras, but I don think he was the voice in Manny's ear on this. I'm sure he told Manny he could get him 4 years and 100M and Manny went with it. I'm not sure he gets that much, but I believe someone will give him a bigger deal then the two option years he had left(NYM). When Manny signed Boras, I honestly had a feeling this was the end of the Manny era, because I knew Boras was going to want to go after a new contract because like it was said before, he was getting no money out of Manny's current deal.

[example1]

Exactly. i don't see it as all Boras' date=' but I don think he was the voice in Manny's ear on this. I'm sure he told Manny he could get him 4 years and 100M and Manny went with it. I'm not sure he gets that much, but I believe someone will give him a bigger deal then the two option years he had left(NYM). When Manny signed Boras, I honestly had a feeling this was the end of the Manny era, because I knew Boras was going to want to go after a new contract because like it was said before, he was getting no money out of Manny's current deal.[/quote']

 

Boras probably was a bug in Manny's ear, but it's Manny's fault for flying off the handle and not handling the situation reasonably if his goal really was to stay in Boston. Manny could have said "I'm hoping to get the 40m over the next two years, so I'll play my ass off and produce like someone who deserves 20m per" or "I want to stay with the Sox so badly that they can decline my option and I'll sign a longer but more reasonable deal to make the team better but which still pays me 15m a season".

 

People need to realize that none of these players are mere pawns. Manny could fire Boras if he wanted to but he wants as much money as he can get in his very few remaining years.

[rician blast]

This "Manny wanted to stay" ******** was just as calculated as the rest of the Manny saga we've seen over the last month or so. They floated this out there as soon as a deal had been reached just to make Manny not look like such an ingrate.

[das11209]

I would have loved to see Manny retired in a Sox uniform and go to HOF wearing a sox cap - clearly he had other intentions.

[YanksHater213]

I think I can speak for the rest of "Red Sox Nation" when I say: Manny, go f*** yourself.

[TheKilo]

I would have loved to see Manny retired in a Sox uniform and go to HOF wearing a sox cap - clearly he had other intentions.

 

He will still go into the hall with a Sox cap - take that to the bank.

[riverside sluggers]

lol "If you dont pick up the options, Manny will behave." Thats basically telling the Sox, if you pick up the options or nothing at all, he will continue to be a cancer for you. Pack plenty of sunscreen and thanks for netting us Jason Bay!

[das11209]

I think I can speak for the rest of "Red Sox Nation" when I say: Manny' date=' go f*** yourself.[/quote']

 

I totally understand why you would say that given the way Manny has behaved. But Manny's tenure as a Red Sox is a legacy that is very rare. We got two world series and he was MVP of one world series. We also see probably saw the best 1-2 combo of our generation in Manny and Ortiz.

 

It was like a fantastic marraige with a really bad break-up. It is upto you how you want to remember it.

[das11209]

lol "If you dont pick up the options' date=' Manny will behave." Thats basically telling the Sox, if you pick up the options or nothing at all, he will continue to be a cancer for you. Pack plenty of sunscreen and thanks for netting us Jason Bay![/quote']

 

Manny had to go this time and I am happy we got Bay. But - I think LA and Pitt took advantage of our situations. We had a bad trading deadline like we had last year. No way this can be sugar-coated.

[TheKilo]

Manny had to go this time and I am happy we got Bay. But - I think LA and Pitt took advantage of our situations. We had a bad trading deadline like we had last year. No way this can be sugar-coated.

 

Disagree.

 

We made the best out of a bad situation.

 

This move makes the team stronger for 2009 as well.

[riverside sluggers]

Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss are both better off in Pittsburgh. Boston was too much of a pressure pot for Hansen, going to another city is what Ive always thought is best for him. No doubt I expect him to be an all star set up man (possible closer?) for the Pirates. Moss gets an actual chance to be a starting outfielder, didnt expect that happening anytime soon here

 

The winners of the 3 team trade were all 3 teams. LA got Manny, Pittsburgh added 4 talented prospects, Boston got rid of a clubhouse cancer and added a 29 year old slugger in Jason Bay. Theo was forced to the event that even Mannys own teammates wanted him gone, this was a trade he had to hold his breath and do it

[das11209]

We made the best out of a bad situation.

 

 

Agree

 

We could have done better if we did not wait till the last minute to get into a bad situation.

It is not Theo's fault that Manny was behaving like a jerk. But - I don't see how Manny + Moss + Hansen + Cash = Bay all other parameters being equal.

[das11209]

Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss are both better off in Pittsburgh. Boston was too much of a pressure pot for Hansen, going to another city is what Ive always thought is best for him. No doubt I expect him to be an all star set up man (possible closer?) for the Pirates. Moss gets an actual chance to be a starting outfielder, didnt expect that happening anytime soon here

 

The winners of the 3 team trade were all 3 teams. LA got Manny, Pittsburgh added 4 talented prospects, Boston got rid of a clubhouse cancer and added a 29 year old slugger in Jason Bay. Theo was forced to the event that even Mannys own teammates wanted him gone, this was a trade he had to catch his breath and do it

 

 

I think we agree. This trade is good for Moss, Hansen and Manny. This trade is good for LA and Pitt as they took advantage of Boston. Theo made the best of a loose-loose situation. Not sure I will be esthatic about this trade as a Sox fan. May be if we could have got some bullpen help in return. The original rumor had us getting a reliever for Pitt - that would have been fine with me.

[TheKilo]

Agree

 

We could have done better if we did not wait till the last minute to get into a bad situation.

It is not Theo's fault that Manny was behaving like a jerk. But - I don't see how Manny + Moss + Hansen + Cash = Bay all other parameters being equal.

 

Because Bay is signed through next year.

 

Manny wasn't coming back next year so we would have had to spend a lot of money to fill that hole for 2009.

 

We no longer have to do that.

 

So, ask yourself.

 

2 months of Manny + Hansen + Moss or one year and two months of Jason Bay + $12.5 million to spend next year.

 

It's a lot closer than people think.

[das11209]

Because Bay is signed through next year.

 

Manny wasn't coming back next year so we would have had to spend a lot of money to fill that hole for 2009.

 

We no longer have to do that.

 

So, ask yourself.

 

2 months of Manny + Hansen + Moss or one year and two months of Jason Bay + $12.5 million to spend next year.

 

It's a lot closer than people think.

 

I am not saying you are wrong - but let me ask a personal question. You said 2 months back you want Hansen to replace Paps. Do you now think you were wrong or you think the trade is of equal value even though Hansen should be our eventual closer?

[YAZMAN]

I totally understand why you would say that given the way Manny has behaved. But Manny's tenure as a Red Sox is a legacy that is very rare. We got two world series and he was MVP of one world series. We also see probably saw the best 1-2 combo of our generation in Manny and Ortiz.

 

It was like a fantastic marraige with a really bad break-up. It is upto you how you want to remember it.

 

It was more like a dysfunctional marriage with really hot sex. Doomed from pretty early on, the only real question was how long would it last?

[TheKilo]

I am not saying you are wrong - but let me ask a personal question. You said 2 months back you want Hansen to replace Paps. Do you now think you were wrong or you think the trade is of equal value even though Hansen should be our eventual closer?

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm