Bullpen Concerns

[yankees228]

Very classy by Francona in terms of what he did for the Yankee players. Kudos to him. I was there and I cheered.

[soxfan17881]

soxfan17881 - how long have you been a Sox fan??

 

Now there's a question that makes me nervous...

 

My father was a part-time Sox fan, born out of hatred for the Yankees. At some point along the way (I think I was in about 10th grade or so) he brought home a Red Sox cap for me. I wore that hat until it disintegrated, sometime in Spring of 2005.

 

I didn't follow baseball much in high school and college. But once I was in the work force for a while I got back into it a bit. I really began paying attention to the Red Sox back in the late 90's when Pedro came to Boston. At the time, I had neither the resources nor the free time to devote to being a fan as far as purchasing Extra Innings or such. I was relegated to being an ESPN fan (Sports Center, Baseball Tonight, etc.) My interest was peaked in 2003 with all that season held. I was in front of the TV for the ALCS. Then I followed as closely as time allowed in '04. The time I devote to the Sox and baseball in general seems to get greater every summer, now that I can get MLB.tv and have XM Radio.

 

Now, depending on why you asked the question will (I suppose) effect how you judge my answer. I have not suffered since my early childhood as a many of you have. There are many, mostly Yankee fans, who call me a bandwagon jumper. All I can say is this: Whatever I am, I am a fan. More importantly, I am a fan not because I chose the Red Sox. I am a fan because the Red Sox chose me.

 

So anyway, why do you ask?

[Gom]

You guys are idiots. Did you expect the NY fans to applaud Papelbon when he got in? You guys are clueless. He got booed, and deservedly so. He also gave up the go ahead run, and he got booed again.

 

I guess Papelbon expected everyone to cheer him after his comments.

 

What kind of reception do you think Arod would have gotten if he came out and said he was better than Manny and Boston should have signed him and let Manny go? Wake up.

[Gom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gom

Paps sucks. If you had left it to him and Tek, by far the two worst AL All-Stars, the AL would have gotten smoked.

Im speachless. Although Ive pretty much come to expect this from you, pretty much everything you say and have predicted has been wrong since you joined this site. Not arguing about Tek obviously.

So I make a comment about two players. One you agree with. The other you don't. Yet I'm always wrong. Yup.

 

This year going into the break, the numbers don't lie. In order:

Mo

Soria

Krod

Nathan

Papelbon

 

The team would have been better off with Giambi, Dye, Posada, or Mussina than Paps. Like I said, second worst all-star that wasn't voted in.

[VA Sox Fan]

You guys are idiots. Did you expect the NY fans to applaud Papelbon when he got in? You guys are clueless. He got booed, and deservedly so. He also gave up the go ahead run, and he got booed again.

 

I guess Papelbon expected everyone to cheer him after his comments.

 

What kind of reception do you think Arod would have gotten if he came out and said he was better than Manny and Boston should have signed him and let Manny go? Wake up.

 

STFU Gom, you're the idiot. Go back to sleep.

[BoSox21]

Papi began his rehab assignment with the PawSox tonight. He popped out to short in his first at-bat, homered in his second, lined out to first in his third and walked in his fourth

[VA Sox Fan]

Papi began his rehab assignment with the PawSox tonight. He popped out to short in his first at-bat' date=' homered in his second, lined out to first in his third and walked in his fourth[/quote']

 

Niiiice. Getting primed for the NYY series! Great to hear about the sell out as well!

[rician blast]

Did you expect the NY fans to applaud Papelbon when he got in? You guys are clueless. He got booed' date=' and deservedly so. [/quote']

 

No, sir, no one expected there NOT to be any booing...we all know the toilet's fanbase and their "knowledge and love for the game," and would have expected nothing less.

 

Truthfully, Paps brought it on himself. As I mentioned earlier, I wish he said nothing because they were going to boo him anyway, as they did to every Sox representative, including the Manager. IMO, it just woulda made them look like bigger douchebags if they were given no ammunition.

 

If the game were in Boston? Yankees players would have been booed as well, and if it were done to the extent that the Yank's fans did, i.e. booing every player, the Manager, the MVP, etc. I'd have been pissed at the Sox fans.

 

Actually, if you read some blogs, there are Yankee fans who were bothered and embarrassed by the excessive booing. Go figure.

[a700hitter]

Honestly' date=' I know you've been quite outspoken about how much you hate the Yankee fans because of how they treated the Red Sox players, but did you really expect anything different?[/quote']I remember the All Star team at Yankee Stadium in 1977. I am pretty sure that the entire Red Sox OF ---Yaz, Rice and Lynn made the team in addition to Fisk, Burleson and Eckersley. I don't recall any of them getting booed. So, did I expect anything different? Yes, I did. I thought they might get booed during the intros, but not during the game. I thought Papelbon would get a hard time, but I didn't expect the derisive chanting while he was pitching, because he was pitching for the home team in Yankee Stadium alongside Yankees. It was something that I had never witnesses at any All Star game at any stadium... ever... not even at Yankee Stadium in 1977 when the rivalry was red hot between fans and players. I didn't expect booing at the presentation of the MVP trophy. I have never witnessed booing of an award presentation after any sporting event. Yankee fans demonstrated for all those who watched that not only are they not the greatest fans in the world, but that they are extremely poor sports, maybe the worst of any fan base.

[a700hitter]

blasphemy' date=' blasphemy I say [/quote']While not blasphemy, it was extremely poor sportsmanship.

[TheKilo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gom

Paps sucks. If you had left it to him and Tek, by far the two worst AL All-Stars, the AL would have gotten smoked.

 

So I make a comment about two players. One you agree with. The other you don't. Yet I'm always wrong. Yup.

 

This year going into the break, the numbers don't lie. In order:

Mo

Soria

Krod

Nathan

Papelbon

 

The team would have been better off with Giambi, Dye, Posada, or Mussina than Paps. Like I said, second worst all-star that wasn't voted in.

 

Do you really believe Papelbon's been the 5th best closer all year?

 

What statistics are you using to come to this conclusion?

[TheKilo]

You guys are idiots. Did you expect the NY fans to applaud Papelbon when he got in? You guys are clueless. He got booed' date=' and deservedly so. He also gave up the go ahead run, and he got booed again. [/quote']

 

No. BUT the Yankee fans also booed JD Drew after his HR (which got the AL back into the game) and when he won the MVP (which helped the AL get homefield).

 

Yankee fans felt it was better to boo Drew than applaud the AL winning - I guess that make sense if you are resigned to the fact that it won't matter anyway - Yankee fans must see their team has a minute chance at the WS.

 

[quote[i guess Papelbon expected everyone to cheer him after his comments.

 

What kind of reception do you think Arod would have gotten if he came out and said he was better than Manny and Boston should have signed him and let Manny go? Wake up.

 

Nope - he deserved to be booed - but I don't think it was that big of a deal especially when Rivera has come out and said he wasn't offended by it.

 

Also - what justification do you use for the Yankee fans to boo Francona?

[TheKilo]

Where's the justification for those who booed Francona? Don't tell me it was a select few, either.

[BoSox21]

there is no justification. they were booing the jersey

[mosox]

This may be the last straw for Theo IF this story from Lobel is true. I remember his at bat in NY and I thought it was strange how he took 3 strikes. This is either an attack on Manny's character or he's bankrupt of any character.

 

From Bostom.com blog:

 

According to former WBZ sports director Bob Lobel, Manny Ramirez was fined a six-figure amount for his June altercation with Red Sox traveling secretary Jack McCormick -- and he wasn't happy about it.

 

"Manny was fined six figures to go to a charity," Lobel said this morning on sports radio WEEI. "That got [Manny's] attention ... he became a petulant child by being punished. No matter what the crime was, pushing an employee, that was the issue ... he acted out [after they fined him]. They got his attention. He doesn't like to be punished in any way, shape, or form... "

 

Lobel’s strong words didn’t stop there. He went on to say that there was a perception that in a pinch-hit at bat at Yankee Stadium on July 6 -- more than a week after the incident with McCormick -- Ramirez took three straight called strikes to send a message to the Sox.

 

"The thing that most people are forgetting and haven't talked about is the strikeout in Yankee Stadium," Lobel said. "The bat on the shoulder for the three pitches from Mariano Rivera. That was a big [expletive] to the Red Sox after the fine. I'm just telling you ... there are things in the front office that are perceived ... I'm saying that there is a strong feeling that that [three-pitch strikeout] was the message to the Red Sox and it's a strong feeling that that's unacceptable ... there's a feeling that he didn't give it his all, let's put it that way ... I'm just saying the front office has not forgotten that moment. It's akin to Nomar sitting on the bench [in a game in which Derek Jeter dove into the stands at Yankee Stadium in 2004]. It's the same thing. It's an at-bat that resonated very strongly in the front office."

 

During the All-Star break, Ramirez told the Boston Herald's Rob Bradford that he would like to stay in Boston after this season, but that if the team doesn't exercise the first of two one-year, $20 million options they have on Manny, he'll play elsewhere.

 

"To be honest with you, I don't know, I want to stay in Boston, but I want to sit down after the season with ownership and see what my future is going to be in Boston," he said. "If they don't pick it up, I'm a free agent and I'll go play somewhere else."

 

Ramirez added that holding court with the Sox' executives is important to him because "I want to know what's my situation. I want no more [expletive] where they tell you one thing and behind your back they do another thing. I think I've earned that respect, for a team to sit down with me and tell me this is what we want, this is what we want to do."

 

Responding to Ramirez's comments via e-mail to Bradford the next day, Sox owner John Henry wrote, "I find remarks that we have been anything other than completely straightforward to be personally offensive. Manny has been a crucial part of two world championships. I do not believe we would have won either without him. He has never played a more important role than he has thus far this year."

[BudLight]

It's been a very entertaining first half of the season. There are many candidates out there for MLB jerk of the year, and with another half season to go, many more should be joining the list.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8355922/#2

[a700hitter]

I thought it was an odd AB. He didn't even look ready to offer at any of those pitches. He didn't move a muscle. He didn't even follow the ball to the catcher's glove. I made the comment on that game thread that maybe he was up there as a decoy and Francona thought he would be walked. This would pre-suppose that he was injured and couldn't swing. it also occurred to me that Manny had no intention of swinging and that he was hitting his meltdown time of the year where he either quits for a while, demands a trade or both. If he sent an F.U. to the F.O., they'll have to get over it until they can find someone who can hit like Manny. Having heard the stories about Manny's tightness with a buck and his selling of memorabilia and gas grills, I would have expected that he would be pissed by a six-figure fine. Was this retaliation? Maybe, but Manny is generally a good team mate, so I don't think he will hurt his team to send any further messages.

[ORS]

I could buy it a little more if the pitches from the AB in question were closer to the heart of the strikezone. I personally thought pitches 2 and 3 were balls. And, since that game on July 6, he's gone 11/22 with 2 dingers. Kind of tough to say the guy is tanking.

 

Accusations of tanking it are serious business. If you are right, well, you can't abide that type of behavior regardless of circumstance. It's poison. If you are wrong, I don't suspect the accused takes it too well and the relationship will sour beyond repair very quickly. The FO needs to sit down with Manny and address his recent concerns along with Lobel's story. And they need to do it yesterday. If this festers, it will only get worse.

[BudLight]

Is Manny's AB against Rivera a lingering issue. No - since that AB Manny has gone 10 for 22 with 7 RBI and 2 HR's. He may have been sending the FO a message, he may have not wanted to PH in that game, who knows.

[BoSox21]

He may have been sending the FO a message' date=' he may have not wanted to PH in that game, who knows.[/quote']

 

thats why its a lingering issue

[BudLight]

thats why its a lingering issue

 

Guess I look at it differently. If Manny wanted to make a prolonged statement, he would not have produced in the following games, instead he would have requested to take some time off, or feign an injury. Besides as quirky as Manny is I really do not believe he would jeopardize his value in an option year, then again maybe Manny is just being Manny:dunno:

[soxfan17881]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gom

Paps sucks. If you had left it to him and Tek, by far the two worst AL All-Stars, the AL would have gotten smoked.

 

So I make a comment about two players. One you agree with. The other you don't. Yet I'm always wrong. Yup.

 

This year going into the break, the numbers don't lie. In order:

Mo

Soria

Krod

Nathan

Papelbon

 

The team would have been better off with Giambi, Dye, Posada, or Mussina than Paps. Like I said, second worst all-star that wasn't voted in.

 

Not that we needed proof that you're a little off center, but this post was just that.

 

Tell me. What exactly was it that Papelbon said? Explain to me why a closer saying he'd like to close the All Star game, but understanding why Rivera should equates to an insult?

 

As far as what I wanted the fans to do? Nothing. No one expected cheers for Papelbon. Maybe even booing would have been understandable (even though he was on the same team as A-Rod, Jeter, and Rivera that night). I certainly didn't expect the 10 minute tantrum that got thrown. Let's not forget they booed Francona, too, who by your onwn admission went above and beyond to add a little class to the night and give the Yankees their due.

 

And also, let's get things straight. That run was Navarro's. It was not an earned run. And you want me to agree to the idea that gimpy freakin' Posada and is windflap ears would have been more valuable and anyone? Please!

[BudLight]

Now there's a question that makes me nervous...

 

My father was a part-time Sox fan, born out of hatred for the Yankees. At some point along the way (I think I was in about 10th grade or so) he brought home a Red Sox cap for me. I wore that hat until it disintegrated, sometime in Spring of 2005.

 

I didn't follow baseball much in high school and college. But once I was in the work force for a while I got back into it a bit. I really began paying attention to the Red Sox back in the late 90's when Pedro came to Boston. At the time, I had neither the resources nor the free time to devote to being a fan as far as purchasing Extra Innings or such. I was relegated to being an ESPN fan (Sports Center, Baseball Tonight, etc.) My interest was peaked in 2003 with all that season held. I was in front of the TV for the ALCS. Then I followed as closely as time allowed in '04. The time I devote to the Sox and baseball in general seems to get greater every summer, now that I can get MLB.tv and have XM Radio.

 

Now, depending on why you asked the question will (I suppose) effect how you judge my answer. I have not suffered since my early childhood as a many of you have. There are many, mostly Yankee fans, who call me a bandwagon jumper. All I can say is this: Whatever I am, I am a fan. More importantly, I am a fan not because I chose the Red Sox. I am a fan because the Red Sox chose me.

 

So anyway, why do you ask?

 

I was curious because of the comment your made:

 

"And like I said, if it was Sox fans doing that in the same way in the same circumstances, I'd tell those Sox fans they were douche-bags just like I'm telling the current twits.

 

It implied to me that you have never seen unwarranted harsh treatment of yankee players, at Fenway. Nothing derogative towards you, just curiousity on my part.

[26 to 6]

Papelbon deserved every bit of the verbal assault he got at Yankee Stadium that night. I was at the game and was screaming Mo's at him. But that's based solely on the comments I read in the paper that morning. He should have just kept his f***ing mouth shut and been happy to be at the All Star game. Dude is in his what, 3rd season? Somebody should tell him to sit back, shut up, and pay his dues.

 

For the record, he and Youk were the only Red Sox I booed that night. I had no reaction to Drew's HR and I actually cheered Pedroia, the only Red Sox player I really like. It's funny to see how much you guys are bitching about the response the Sox players got at the game. Think about what it would have been like had the ASG been at Fenway, and a Yankee manager was managing, and there were 6 Yankees on the team. It ould have made what happened at the Stadium that night look like golf-clapping (Except for the Papelbon piece, of course. "Mar-i-ano!")

[Soxfan1]

That was classic at the 2005 Ring Ceremony. Mo was a great sport too.

 

I was just talking about that with my dad. Them cheering Mo and Torre was a great and hilarious moment.

[Mr Crunchy]

as i said previously,his attacking the old guy was by far the worst thing hes ever done on this ballclub and this story isnt over.

you can fight teammates but clubhouse employees and the like are off limits.

 

bob lobel takes it in the ass

[TheKilo]

I thought it was an odd AB. He didn't even look ready to offer at any of those pitches. He didn't move a muscle. He didn't even follow the ball to the catcher's glove. I made the comment on that game thread that maybe he was up there as a decoy and Francona thought he would be walked. This would pre-suppose that he was injured and couldn't swing. it also occurred to me that Manny had no intention of swinging and that he was hitting his meltdown time of the year where he either quits for a while' date=' demands a trade or both. If he sent an F.U. to the F.O., they'll have to get over it until they can find someone who can hit like Manny. Having heard the stories about Manny's tightness with a buck and his selling of memorabilia and gas grills, I would have expected that he would be pissed by a six-figure fine. Was this retaliation? Maybe, but Manny is generally a good team mate, so I don't think he will hurt his team to send any further messages.[/quote']

 

This is taken from page 44 of the MLB Player's Association Agreement with MLB:

 

(2) Club Fines. A fine imposed by a Club pursuant to Regulation 5 of the Uniform Player’s Contract in excess of $2,000 may not be deducted from the Player’s salary until such fine is finally upheld in the Grievance Procedure or the time in which to file a Grievance has expired.

 

If this was the case, and Manny was fined six figures, where's the grievance to the Player's Association?

 

Bob Lobel has no credibility here. Like many have said, Mo threw three great pitches.

[TheKilo]

Papelbon deserved every bit of the verbal assault he got at Yankee Stadium that night. I was at the game and was screaming Mo's at him. But that's based solely on the comments I read in the paper that morning. He should have just kept his f***ing mouth shut and been happy to be at the All Star game. Dude is in his what, 3rd season? Somebody should tell him to sit back, shut up, and pay his dues.

 

For the record, he and Youk were the only Red Sox I booed that night. I had no reaction to Drew's HR and I actually cheered Pedroia, the only Red Sox player I really like. It's funny to see how much you guys are bitching about the response the Sox players got at the game. Think about what it would have been like had the ASG been at Fenway, and a Yankee manager was managing, and there were 6 Yankees on the team. It ould have made what happened at the Stadium that night look like golf-clapping (Except for the Papelbon piece, of course. "Mar-i-ano!")

 

Except, Torre was cheered during the 1999 All Star Game, and Mo was cheered in 2005.

 

In short - you're wrong.

[Mr Crunchy]

bob lobel was married to susan wornick

im not sure who had the penis in that marriage but if i had to bet....bob lobel takes it in the ass

[yankees228]

Except, Torre was cheered during the 1999 All Star Game, and Mo was cheered in 2005.

 

In short - you're wrong.

 

Well...Torre was cheered because he was coming back from being out with cancer, so it really wasn't just a show of respect but I give the Sox fans credit regardless. However, when Mo was cheered it was very mocking because he had blown two saves against the Red Sox the week before.