Rank the pitchers

[ksushi]

At this point, Papelbon is head and shoulders above Chamberlain because of his experience and utter dominance at the major league level. Posted a historically low ERA in '06. Can't even compare. Chamberlain projects better as a starter, no doubt, but I'm not prepared to say hes better.

 

Papelbons fastball might be one of the most dominant pitches in the game. Santana's change, Mariano's cutter, and a King Felix curve come to mind, but I think Papelbons heater has to at least be mentioned in the conversation.

[jacksonianmarch]

At this point' date=' Papelbon is head and shoulders above Chamberlain because of his experience and utter dominance at the major league level. Posted a historically low ERA in '06. Can't even compare. Chamberlain projects better as a starter, no doubt, but I'm not prepared to say hes better. [/quote']

This is what i meant. Paps is a lights out reliever, one that is historically good. Chamberlain was even better, but in a shorter time span, so I will concede that. But my point was that Chamberlain has better pure stuff and a deeper arsenal, hence he projects better to the rotation.

 

Papelbons fastball might be one of the most dominant pitches in the game. Santana's change, Mariano's cutter, and a King Felix curve come to mind, but I think Papelbons heater has to at least be mentioned in the conversation.

 

Papelbon's FB is dirty, but it is a good 3-5mph slower than Chamberlain's. And Gammons/Phillips and the other nESPN crew were singing the praises of Chamberlain's slider. Gammons went as far as saying Chamberlain has the best stuff in the entire league. And I dont blame him. We all saw the slider and the heat. But do you remember the curve he spun off on Drew that went nose to knees on the outside corner and froze him? His arsenal is electric.

[TheKilo]

This is what i meant. Paps is a lights out reliever' date=' one that is historically good. Chamberlain was even better, but in a shorter time span, so I will concede that. But my point was that Chamberlain has better pure stuff and a deeper arsenal, hence he projects better to the rotation. Papelbon's FB is dirty, but it is a good 3-5mph slower than Chamberlain's. And Gammons/Phillips and the other nESPN crew were singing the praises of Chamberlain's slider. Gammons went as far as saying Chamberlain has the best stuff in the entire league. And I dont blame him. We all saw the slider and the heat. [b']But do you remember the curve he spun off on Drew that went nose to knees on the outside corner and froze him?[/b] His arsenal is electric.

 

No.

[yankeessuck013]

[ksushi]

Papelbon's FB is dirty, but it is a good 3-5mph slower than Chamberlain's. And Gammons/Phillips and the other nESPN crew were singing the praises of Chamberlain's slider..

 

Velocity isn't everything. I like Papelbons FB better because of the movement. 95 with greg maddux lateral movement.

[BoSox21]

Papelbon's FB is dirty, but it is a good 3-5mph slower than Chamberlain's. And Gammons/Phillips and the other nESPN crew were singing the praises of Chamberlain's slider. Gammons went as far as saying Chamberlain has the best stuff in the entire league. And I dont blame him. We all saw the slider and the heat. But do you remember the curve he spun off on Drew that went nose to knees on the outside corner and froze him? His arsenal is electric.

 

Velocity isn't everything. It's the life and control on the fastball that matter. That's the difference between Jonathan Papelbon and Daniel Cabrera

[BoSox34]

1. Hughes

2. ClayBucholzIzDaFuture

3. Chamberlain

4. Kennedy

5. Lester

6. Delcarmen

7. Hansen

[TheKilo]

Yankees: Hughes, Kennedy, Chamberlain

Red Sox: Buchholz, Lester, Hansen, Delcarmen

 

How would you guys rank them, one through seven? For not only next year, but for their careers?

 

I'm curious as to your opinions. Let's hear them folks.

 

Chamberlain

Lester

Buchholz

Hughes

Delcarmen

Kennedy

Hansen

[PATS12RULE]

Chamberlain-Lester have to be one-two on this list. Chamberlain's stuff is as nasty as anyone's, and he can control it well enough to dominate. If he stays healthy he can win multiple Cy Youngs.

 

Lester's already proven to be a workhorse who can consistently win. His stuff isn't as fantastic as Joba's or even Buchholz's, but so far he's been the best of the group. Maybe he won't have as great a career as Joba, but I'd take him on my team in a heartbeat.

 

Buchholz can be added to the discussion once he figures himself out; we know he has the talent, he just needs to put it all together.

[Cocos Disciples]

Yeah I don't think there's any doubt it's Chamberlain-Lester as the 1-2. They're the only ones who have done significant stuff in the majors, except maybe Delcarmen.

[BoSox21]

Maybe he won't have as great a career as Joba' date=' but I'd take him on my team in a heartbeat.[/quote']

 

It wouldn't shock me to see injuries plague Joba's career

[yankees228]

It wouldn't shock me to see injuries plague Joba's career

 

Why do you say that?

[The Dustball]

Why do you say that?

 

I agree with Bosox. He's had injuries before. Tricep strains in his junior year in college and the injury this year. Pitching with a big body like he has can't help his injury chances.

[a700hitter]

He's had injuries before. Tricep strains in his junior year in college and the injury this year. Pitching with a big body like he has can't help his injury chances.

He broke down after throwing only 89 innings this season. He has a long way to go to be considered a top of the rotation horse.

[yankees228]

He broke down after throwing only 89 innings this season. He has a long way to go to be considered a top of the rotation horse.

 

How exactly did he break down this year? You have no idea if his injury is at all related to his workload.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is something that cannot be ranked right now. Lester is at a different level in his development than the rest. Hughes, Kennedy and Buchholz have more in common than the others since all 3 have had a rough transition to the bigs and ended up back in the minors. Joba is #1 in potential on most any list, but I gotta take Lester #1 since he has proven he can stay healthy and dominate for a full yr. We'll be arguing this point for a long time.

[jacksonianmarch]

And you guys who write off Buchholz and Hughes are stupid.

[kreinbihl34]

But we can write off Kennedy right?

[a700hitter]

How exactly did he break down this year? You have no idea if his injury is at all related to his workload.

He went on the DL with rotator cuff tendinitis. Isn't that breaking down? I would assume that the condition was caused by pitching and not anything viral or communicable. He pitched only 89 innings.

[Youk Of The Nation]

rank pichers::

 

sidny ponson

david wells

batolro coolnon

any othre fatasss

[jacksonianmarch]

But we can write off Kennedy right?

 

No, you cannot. I dont get how we can just write off a 23 yr old kid who just flat out dominated the minors. You cannot, not yet at least.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

He went on the DL with rotator cuff tendinitis. Isn't that breaking down? I would assume that the condition was caused by pitching and not anything viral or communicable. He pitched only 89 innings.

 

In the end what may ruin him is the Yankees indecision on where to put him. Brian Cashman just mentioned today that Joba may start the 2009 season in the bullpen. They don't know if he should be a starter or a reliever because the truth is they need him to do both.

 

What really needs to happen is Joba needs to walk into the clubhouse and say he wants to pitch in the bullpen. There he won't have to be as closely monitored and would shorten a baseball game considerably with Rivera for the next couple seasons.

[jacksonianmarch]

Herein lies the problem. Joba has a special arm and the capacity to be a shut down reliever/closer or a top of the rotation ace. One of the positions he can man right now (closer/reliever). The other requires him to build up his arm strength. He is so good that doing it in AAA is a waste. So they need to insert him in the rotation with the expectation that he get multiple starts off during the yr to build up his arm strength. This is a difficult proposition when you are talking about a team that should be in a pennant chase. I could see the media outlash now. "Girardi sits Joba in crucial start!" We need him to get about 150-165 innings next yr. I dont think he can handle 200+ for next yr.

[Thumper]

No' date=' you cannot. I dont get how we can just write off a 23 yr old kid who just flat out dominated the minors. You cannot, not yet at least.[/quote']

 

Well it seems Buchholz was written off after he was sent all the way back to Portland (atleast that was the FO's way of doing it for now). And he did well in the minors before being called up.

 

It's a tricky situation soley because of their age. Is this as good as Kennedy and Buchholz will get? Or with them being young give them time to improve? Just can't make 100% either way right now.

 

Personally I haven't written off Kennedy for New York. I just think he needs a little more time. He just wasn't ready.

[Cocos Disciples]

Well it seems Buchholz was written off after he was sent all the way back to Portland (atleast that was the FO's way of doing it for now). And he did well in the minors before being called up.

 

It's a tricky situation soley because of their age. Is this as good as Kennedy and Buchholz will get? Or with them being young give them time to improve? Just can't make 100% either way right now.

 

Personally I haven't written off Kennedy for New York. I just think he needs a little more time. He just wasn't ready.

 

Buchholz has in no way been written off. He sucked this year, but we'll be seeing plenty more of him in the bigs.

[MANNYHOF24]

No' date=' you cannot. I dont get how we can just write off a 23 yr old kid who just flat out dominated the minors. You cannot, not yet at least.[/quote']

 

Two words. Brain Rose.

[Cocos Disciples]

Sure, Brian Rose is one case, but that doesn't mean Kennedy will follow in his footsteps.

[NateGrey]

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-lester

-chamberlin

-buchholz

-hughes

-delcarmen

-hansen

-kennedy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Fried Neckbones]

jacksonian, gom, 26-6, et al - this one is mostly for you. Why Joba the starter instead of Joba the shut down, slam the door closer in waiting? And don't give me that crap about 200 innings are more valuable to a team than 60 as a closer. Who do you people have waiting to take over for Mo? Edwar? Veras? Please. Unless there is some gem hidden in the minors (and I'm actually asking, not s*** talking) I don't see it. Parallels to Paps in 2005 - hard throwing, groomed to be a starter, breaking into a big league rotation, then he's a dominant closer. I just don't get it - I'm no Steinbrenner but it seems pretty obvious to me.

 

Also, the idea of Joba and Paps going head-to-head as closers for the Yankees and Sox for the next 10 years or so is really cool.