Johan Santana

[Taliesin]

Me too.

 

And I like Hank, but not very much. I like his energy and enthusiasm, sort of a throwback to big poppa, but I just wish he would shut the hell up sometimes and let the baseball operations staff do what they get paid to do.

 

?..when did The Felon do that. That's pseudo rhetorical. I think it's great. I love it when the Stein's run the operation. The epitome of futility and bluster. And zero championships. Actually, I think the organization under Big Stein went the longest of any MFY team w/out a W.S. title. When was the last one prior to 96 again? I forget. I love his energy and enthusiasm as well. I can't wait for the Girardi/Hank brawls. Good stuff. We'll just be over here laughing in Title town.

[Thumper]

I don't know about anyone else here, but I've lost all interest in Santana. I'm not a patient person except when at the plate. And I really don't think Santana's gonne be worth anything. Call me stupid, I know, and I don't mean he's gonna sucks, I just think we could do better for less.

[Taliesin]

Also Tom Yawkey was a horrible human being and set our team back 4,000 years. His wife wasn't much better and just had the good sense not to Schott herself in the foot by confining her racism and stupidity to the Beacon Hill elite. Then we got bought by a member of the Mob. And, thankfully he has now expired. The majority of the NATION would have killed him if given the chance. I really hate that the main street is named after that stupid family. Longevity shouldn't buy you respect. Like well, there is Marv and Betty married 72 years. Clap...clap..clap. The D.J. doesn't say they've despised each other for 71 of those years.

 

Wasn't no goddamn curse. Just decades of ignorance.

[Taliesin]

I don't know about anyone else here' date=' but I've lost all interest in Santana. I'm not a patient person except when at the plate. And I really don't think Santana's gonne be worth anything. Call me stupid, I know, and I don't mean he's gonna sucks, I just think we could do better for less.[/quote']

 

Ok...I'll call you stupid. Can't leave those hanging curves Thumper. I don't think he's gonna sucks either.

[jacksonianmarch]

Me too.

 

And I like Hank, but not very much. I like his energy and enthusiasm, sort of a throwback to big poppa, but I just wish he would shut the hell up sometimes and let the baseball operations staff do what they get paid to do.

 

I totally agree. He at least has an eye for the future, something George never had. And if he starts tossing more cash into the draft and INTL pool, we might not have to worry about 45 yr old mercenaries filling in between roid injections. And as such, I think we should forget about Johan and focus on this team. I would love to have the guy, but not at the price they want. And, Johan did experience a drop in velocity last yr and a drop in effectiveness. This scares me, since I would expect to sign him to a 7 yr deal, and the last thing I would want is for him to be mediocre or injured by yr 3. Let him go.

[YAZMAN]

I totally agree. He at least has an eye for the future' date=' something George never had. And if he starts tossing more cash into the draft and INTL pool, we might not have to worry about 45 yr old mercenaries filling in between roid injections. And as such, I think we should forget about Johan and focus on this team. I would love to have the guy, but not at the price they want. And, Johan did experience a drop in velocity last yr and a drop in effectiveness. This scares me, since I would expect to sign him to a 7 yr deal, and the last thing I would want is for him to be mediocre or injured by yr 3. Let him go.[/quote']

 

Bookmark this thread, it's dizzy with the possibilities.

[das11209]

I might have said it before that Yankees getting Santana for Hughes is best outcome for me. Second best outcome is Red Sox getting him without giving up Ellsbury/Buchholz.

 

If not - I will be fine if he goes to the Mets/stays with twins and gets a contract extension.

 

I do not want him to stay with the twins this year and become a free agent - then the Yankess will scoop him up next year without giving up a prospect.

[das11209]

I totally agree. He at least has an eye for the future' date=' something George never had. And if he starts tossing more cash into the draft and INTL pool, we might not have to worry about [b']45 yr old mercenaries filling in between roid injections[/b]. And as such, I think we should forget about Johan and focus on this team. I would love to have the guy, but not at the price they want. And, Johan did experience a drop in velocity last yr and a drop in effectiveness. This scares me, since I would expect to sign him to a 7 yr deal, and the last thing I would want is for him to be mediocre or injured by yr 3. Let him go.

 

So you are one of the few Yankee fans who thinks Clemens did it ?

[TheKilo]

I don't know about anyone else here' date=' but I've lost all interest in Santana. I'm not a patient person except when at the plate. And I really don't think Santana's gonne be worth anything. Call me stupid, I know, and I don't mean he's gonna sucks, I just think we could do better for less.[/quote']

 

Yeah gonna have to disagree with you there.

 

I think he'll go to the Mets when all is said and done.

[BSN07]

Mets Prefer Bedard Over Santana?

Interesting line from Lisa Kennelly of the Newark Star-Ledger today:

 

The Mets, however, prefer Baltimore's Erik Bedard over Santana, since he wouldn't require the same lucrative extension as part of the deal.

 

The Mets have an option the Red Sox and Yankees probably don't - they might be able to acquire Erik Bedard for a price similar to what it would take to get Johan Santana. It makes complete sense that Bedard would be more attractive - it's two years of him versus one of Santana. Even if Santana is a slightly better/more durable pitcher, two years easily outweighs that. Jon Heyman said on December 3rd that the Mets had offered Carlos Gomez, Phil Humber, and Aaron Heilman for Bedard, which "barely drew a response from Baltimore."

 

The Mets' interest in Bedard goes back for at least a few months; it's probably just been on the backburner. The Red Sox and Yankees have expressed interest, but it was said that Peter Angelos didn't want to trade Bedard within the division.

 

 

 

This is looking more and more like Minny over played there hand and might get stuck with picks instead of top talented prospects. If NYM really like Bedard over Santana and get him, then the Sox are the only team left thats interested/ can afford him. I mean I'm not going to count out the Yanks, even if the guy running the ship is doing the hokey pokey regarding Johan.

 

With Minnys options running low, Theo should offer a final package of say Lester,Coco, Masterson +1, and say take it or leave it, and either get it done or remove the Sox all together from talks.

[jacksonianmarch]

I wouldnt be surprised if Theo has quietly pulled his offer and said that he'll wait till ST. Minnesota had their chance. I honestly think they were waiting for Hughes plus Kennedy or Ellsbury plus Lester, but got none of that. In response, the two teams most avidly for the pitcher have pulled out. And to be honest with you, if you were the Twins and you saw that there was a decent chance of contention this season, would you be too averse to getting 2 top 40 picks and seeing if a Santana/Liriano combo couldnt lead you to the promised land? And with the way the Twins have drafted, I have no doubt that they could get something out of those picks.

 

It is an interesting dilemma that I think you are certainly correct on. The Twins had the pressure on early when both teams were in it avidly. But their holding out has made both teams luke warm, and to be honest with you, the sox offer, although high in depth, is lackluster in high end talent. The Yankee offer lacks depth, but has one player with huge potential. Regardless, I dont think either of the 3 teams will be too depressed if he throws in Minnesota for 08 and hits the FA market for 09.

[BSN07]

Don't get me wrong, I don't underestimate the potential value of the comp. picks the Twins would recieve. They could very well end up being big time players. But it just seems you should be able to get more for Johan, or a player of his caliber. But I like how Theo is standing pat and not getting to desperate. Because whoever gets Santana is taking atleast a moderate risk.

 

I do agree with you on your evaluation of the packages being offered by our respective clubs.

 

I personally wouldn't mind seeing the Sox going with what they have.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Cabrera is an average CF at best overall.

 

Joe Sheehan of BP, yesterday, writing on the biggest candidates for a breakout in 2008 in MLB. His words on Melky Cabrera:

 

Melky Cabrera. Cabrera went backwards in ’07, but not by enough for concern. Remember that he is just 23 years old and has more than 1100 plate appearances in the majors, with average to average-plus defense (good physical tools, but very raw, takes bad routes) and a very good 129/96 K/BB. He is a mature player offensively, patient at the plate and fair on the bases (25-for-35 stealing in his career). One interesting quirk is his G/F ratio, which is 1.63 for his career and was a whopping 1.81 last season. Cabrera is listed at 5’11” and 200 pounds. He’s not Willy Taveras, but rather a player who should be developing power and learning how to drive the ball, rather than hitting the ball on the ground 60 percent of the time.

 

I’m reminded of Alex Rios, who doesn’t look a thing like Cabrera. Rios was largely disappointing in 2004 and 2005, hitting just 11 homers in more than 900 at-bats, with an isolated power of 117. The problem: Rios was hitting the ball on the ground too much, a 1.82 G/F in those two seasons. Starting in ’06, Rios put the ball in the air more than half the time, and became a star. When you look at Cabrera’s body, his established control of the strike zone, and his ability to hold his own at a young age, you recognize that all it’s going to take is for him to start elevating the ball. Cabrera may not get there in 2008, but he’s going to pop 80 extra-base hits and slug .500 in a season very, very soon.

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7053

 

I maintain that it's the Hughes-Cabrera combo, not just Hughes...Hughes has Cy Young potential, but Melky Cabrera is going to be an All Star-caliber outfielder "very, very soon."

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.twincities.com/walters/ci_8040073?nclick_check=1

 

The Twins say they're not panicking while holding out for the best deal for Johan Santana. But word within baseball circles is that offers by the New York Yankees (no more Phil Hughes) and Boston Red Sox are diminishing by the week. Best bet now for a trade of the two-time Cy Young Award winner appears to be with the New York Mets in a deal that would not include fast-rising hitter Fernando Martinez.

 

 

 

OVERHEARD

 

Twins manager Ron Gardenhire, asked who will be his ace if Johan Santana is traded: "Won't have one. But we've got a couple of kings."

 

I continue to maintain that the Yankees and the Sox want no part of Santana for the price in prospects and then cash that it would take to get him.

[das11209]

Charley Walters of the St. Paul Pioneer Press expects a Johan Santana deal to get done within the next 10 days.

 

Walters doesn't list the Mets, Red Sox or Yankees as favorites, though he does say the Twins again tried and failed to get the Angels involved. ESPN's Buster Olney has sources telling him that Jon Lester is now off the table, suggesting Boston's current offer could be built around Jacoby Ellsbury. There's been little lately to indicate the Mets or Yankees have adjusted their offers.

 

I think this is the same guy who is saying Santana trade will happen soon since last 2 months - so take it with as much grain of salt as you want.

[redsoxrules]

BS..and in 10 days from now the new headline will be .." johan to be traded before march "

[Gom]

I hope he goes to the Royals.

[YAZMAN]

Mets now frontrunners?

 

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/ny-spjohan0128,0,3976041.story

[Cocos Disciples]

God I'm sick of this s***.

[Ray10]

10 bucks says he stays in Minnesota.

[a700hitter]

I have maintained from the beginning that he will be with the Twins when they break camp to come north. I'd be very surprised if he got traded. Shutdown aces are the rarest of commodities. You'd have to knock their sox off to get Santana.

[das11209]

Buster Olney says that Twins will make a decision today!!!

[Cocos Disciples]

They won't.

[ACL BoSox]

Buster Olney says that Twins will make a decision today!!!

 

No, they will decide whether or not to trade him today. If you listened around, the Twins made another effort to resign him today, and failed.

 

He will be traded, not today.

[das11209]

No, they will decide whether or not to trade him today. If you listened around, the Twins made another effort to resign him today, and failed.

 

He will be traded, not today.

 

Thanks Nostradamus - he just got traded to the Mets.

[das11209]

And someone please close this damn thread. We kept our prospects, Yankees did not get him, he is out of AL. We win.

 

Edit - Let him beat the Yankees in subway series - oh this is sweet.

[ACL BoSox]

Thanks Nostradamus - he just got traded to the Mets.

 

 

I meant to do that. Thank god its over.

[das11209]

Link

 

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-29-twins-mets-santana_N.htm

[redsoxrules]

damn! I know he's in the NL but I wish we could of gotten him

[Cocos Disciples]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2008-01-29-twins-mets-santana_N.htm