Johan Santana

[Jayhawk Bill]

Peter Gammons on the possible Santana deal:

 

Santana is probably the best pitcher of this generation. He's young and he's a great athlete who should be able to last another 10 years, but the more I've thought about the Santana deal, the more I'm convinced it's not a great idea. Whether it's the Ellsbury deal or the Lester deal, the Sox would still be giving up three young players and I don't discount the importance that Lowrie will play in the next couple of years.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2008/01/03/peter_gammons_red_sox_chat_transcript/

 

Gammons is out of his gourd predicting that Santana will probably last another ten years. He's good enough that he might, but pitchers still in MLB at age 38 are very rare...even Cy Young winners like Koufax and Hunter (and McLain and Jones) were gone by their late 30's. Past performance does not guarantee future results, and there's roughly a 15% chance each year that Santana will be washed up.

 

But FWIW, even with his personal assumption that Santana will last ten more years, Gammons isn't sure that he's worth so much young talent. There he and I agree.

[26 to 6]

With Hank Steinbrenner stating yesterday that he is "leaning twards" doing a Santana trade, it just disappointments me more and more. Firstly, the f***ing ego on this guy, overruling the opinions of not only the general manager, whom his father gave authority over baseball operations back when he negotiated his new contract either prior to, or following the 2005 season (I forget right now), and his brother Hal, who is supposed to be his equal in running the team, and who also oversees all of the Yankee finances. I DO NOT want to Lose Phil Hughes. The possibility of Joba being a bust and Phil going on to have an All-Star career is not something I want to have to face (not that I think Joba is going to be a bust, but Hughes was THAT GUY for about 2 years in the Yanee system). I say the Yanks should just wait this out, see if we need him at the trade deadline, reasess the situation, or even, and more preferably, wait until the offseason, provided he doesn't ink a long-term somewhere if he is perhaps traded mid-season. That way we can give him all the money he wants, and keep our prospects (granted we lose the picks). IDK, just my thoughts. I really hate to trade away some of our prospects after so adamently moving away from that sort of thing. Like father, like son I suppose.

[rician blast]

With Hank Steinbrenner stating yesterday that he is "leaning twards" doing a Santana trade' date=' it just disappointments me more and more. Firstly, the f***ing ego on this guy, overruling the opinions of not only the general manager, whom his father gave authority over baseball operations back when he negotiated his new contract either prior to, or following the 2005 season (I forget right now), and his brother Hal, who is supposed to be his equal in running the team, and who also oversees all of the Yankee finances. I DO NOT want to Lose Phil Hughes. The possibility of Joba being a bust and Phil going on to have an All-Star career is not something I want to have to face (not that I think Joba is going to be a bust, but Hughes was THAT GUY for about 2 years in the Yanee system). I say the Yanks should just wait this out, see if we need him at the trade deadline, reasess the situation, or even, and more preferably, wait until the offseason, provided he doesn't ink a long-term somewhere if he is perhaps traded mid-season. That way we can give him all the money he wants, and keep our prospects (granted we lose the picks). IDK, just my thoughts. I really hate to trade away some of our prospects after so adamently moving away from that sort of thing. Like father, like son I suppose.[/quote']

 

Here's a link to a brief article on this...there are some pretty funny comments by Yank fans who would like Hank to STFU.

 

: http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/01/04/the-latest-from-chairman-hank/

 

Love this part:

"On Brian Cashman: 'I always told him, `I’m going to make the final decisions because when you’re the owner you should.’ He is the general manager, and he has the right to talk me out of it and he has talked me out of some things.' ”

 

Way to go Boss, disenfranchise your FO. This is like McDonalds, Ba-da-ba-ba-ba...I'm lovin' it.

[BSN07]

Hank: Yanks Would Not Exceed Five Years On Johan

Kat O'Brien spoke to Hank Steinbrenner yesterday, and learned that the Yankees' take on Johan Santana has not changed. They're still in on him. One new tidbit: Hank said he wouldn't go past a five-year extension for Santana. Since he's already signed through 2008, an extension would go through 2013.

 

Keep in mind that Santana might not waive his no-trade clause if not given the contract he seeks.

 

 

This guy is trying to gift wrap Santanna for either the NYM, or the Sox. If Santana knows hes only going to get 5 yrs from the Yanks he might Veto. I doubt hed except a trade if this was the case.

 

Actually from another vantage point, if Theo also said he would only go 5 yrs, then Minny is stuck sending Santana to NYM(which is fine by me too) if they will give 7 yrs. Or Santana would have to accept a shorter deal. And if the Sox could get him on a 5 yr deal I'm all for it. 6 and 7 yrs make me weary...

 

 

BTW isn't it against some rule for him to make comments like this about Santanna and an extension? He'll run the Yanks into the ground LOL

[Jayhawk Bill]

This guy is trying to gift wrap Santanna for either the NYM, or the Sox. If Santana knows hes only going to get 5 yrs from the Yanks he might Veto. I doubt hed except a trade if this was the case.

 

Actually from another vantage point, if Theo also said he would only go 5 yrs, then Minny is stuck sending Santana to NYM(which is fine by me too) if they will give 7 yrs. Or Santana would have to accept a shorter deal. And if the Sox could get him on a 5 yr deal I'm all for it. 6 and 7 yrs make me weary...

 

 

BTW isn't it against some rule for him to make comments like this about Santanna and an extension? He'll run the Yanks into the ground LOL

 

The rule regards "tampering." One can't discuss contracts with a player under contract to another team, nor can one make pronouncements regarding what salary one would pay a player destined for free agency lest it influence the player's decision whether or not to accept arbitration.

 

Tampering happens...Theo has probably been guilty of it a time or two. Usually such things are leaked out indirectly to allow plausible deniability. As an germane example, we all "know" that Theo and the FO would give Santana 7/140 if he came to Boston. I can't find a quote to that effect, though, as I can find a quote of Hank Steinbrenner's. That might put the Yankees at risk of action for tampering.

 

Per AOL, Minnesota is leaning toward accepting the Yankees' offer:

 

...it does seem like Santana could be pinstripe-bound. The Twins have reportedly relinquished their demand that the Bombers include Ian Kennedy in their package and expressed a willingness to accept other players along with Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera. One would likely be minor-league hurler Jeff Marquez and, according to Neal, the other could be Kei Igawa.

 

On the surface, that seems outlandish. Igawa was terrible in New York this season and won't ever be more than a back of the rotation starter. He has four years at $4 million per left on his deal which you'd think would make the Twins leery of him but may actually help foster a deal. The Yankees have expressed a desire to slice some payroll if they add Santana's salary and moving Igawa would be a way to make that happen.

 

If the Twins have decided that Hughes is the guy they want most, as opposed to Boston's Jacoby Ellsbury, then taking on Igawa's salary may be the best way to make it happen.

 

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/07/twins-lower-demands-for-johan-santana/

 

As I've posted previously, I regard just the combination of Hughes and Cabrera as more valuable than Johan Santana, all aspects considered. The rumored inclusion of Igawa, who has negative trade value, suggests that Hank Steinbrenner has realized that he overbid and that the Twins are about to make him live up to his offer, and that the Yankees can't wiggle any further than using their absolute worst trade-eligible player as the fourth name without breaking their word (and possibly some legally-binding deal) with the Twins' FO.

 

The Yankees can still try to poison the deal by getting Santana to veto it, though. I think that's what they're doing.

[rician blast]

Fukkin' Hank....

 

Hank Steinbrenner, behind the scenes, after his most recent lie...

 

http://www.film.it/fnts/film/immagini/300x180/pinocchio201.jpg

[BSN07]

Fukkin' Hank....

 

Hank Steinbrenner, behind the scenes, after his most recent lie...

 

http://www.film.it/fnts/film/immagini/300x180/pinocchio201.jpg

 

hahaha my thoughts also. Does this guy have any credibility at all? I guess since he runs things on the Yanks, he thinks he is entitled to the past success. This guy has done nothing but make a complete fool of himself when given the chance. His sense of accomplishment is histerical. He thinks everyone is going to bow down to his every whim...

[BoSox21]

hahaha my thoughts also. Does this guy have any credibility at all? I guess since he runs things on the Yanks' date=' he thinks he is entitled to the past success. This guy has done nothing but make a complete fool of himself when given the chance. His sense of accomplishment is histerical. He thinks everyone is going to bow down to his every whim...[/quote']

 

its kinda nice to have him around though since it gives the Yankees that pompous swagger that everyone loves to hate back since George has been out of the public eye for the most part these past few years

[Gom]

I hear the Mets may have jumped in the lead. I actually wouldn't mind, I just don't want him going to you guys. I feel you guys are thinking the same thing.

[Gom]

The Yankees can still try to poison the deal by getting Santana to veto it, though. I think that's what they're doing.

Stop smoking crack. Those guys couldn't hold Santana's jock. Don't buy into New York media hype. Cabrera is an average CF at best overall. Hughes has potential, but may not be the power ace that everyone thinks he CAN be.

 

Those are the centerpieces of a deal for the best pitcher in baseball? I'd love it if it could happen.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Stop smoking crack.

 

Stop making spurious allegations of illegal activity.

 

Those guys couldn't hold Santana's jock. Don't buy into New York media hype.

 

Trust me, I don't evaluate players by any media hype. Those who've read my posts know that I evaluate by stats and comparables. Players as good as Cabrera and Hughes at such young ages don't come along often. Santana wasn't that good that young.

 

Cabrera is an average CF at best overall.

 

First, I regard his upside as much higher; second, a true average MLB CF in his pre-free agency years is a very valuable player.

 

Hughes has potential, but may not be the power ace that everyone thinks he CAN be.

 

Santana may not be the Cy Young winner that everybody thinks he CAN be. Both Hughes and Santana are pitchers, and pitchers get arm trouble. Santana had an off year, and he lost a little velocity. An augury? I dunno. :dunno:

 

Those are the centerpieces of a deal for the best pitcher in baseball? I'd love it if it could happen.

 

Great! We both want to see the deal happen!

 

 

Edit:

 

I'd commented yesterday that it looked as if the Yankees were backing off. From today's Daily News:

 

Yankees may give up on Johan Santana

BY PETER BOTTE

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

 

Thursday, January 10th 2008, 4:00 AM

 

Brian Cashman has remained protective of the Yankees' assembled prospects, while Hal Steinbrenner has been equally shielding of the team's finances.

 

Hank Steinbrenner? That's been another story for much of the winter.

 

But while stressing there is "absolutely nothing new" in terms of recent trade discussions with the Twins, Hank is beginning to sound convinced - if not nearly ready - to walk away from any potential blockbuster deal for Johan Santana.

 

"We went into this with me making the final baseball decisions and Hal more addressing the financial aspects of the company, but we both do everything," Steinbrenner said yesterday in a phone interview. "We're equal partners, but at this point, to tell you the truth, I'm leaning away from it anyway, so it doesn't matter. Same thing with Brian, he's another integral part of it, obviously, being the general manager, and one day he's leaning to do it and the next day he's not sure.

 

"But what it comes down to right now is giving up a lot (in a trade) and then having to do the big contract, as well. If (Santana) was just a free agent, we could just go ahead and do it. There's a big difference this way. We have to sign him as if he's a free agent, plus you have to give up major talent. That's a tall order."

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2008/01/10/2008-01-10_yankees_may_give_up_on_johan_santana-2.html

 

That appears to be what I'd posted yesterday, give or take.

[jacksonianmarch]

Couple things on big Stein.

 

I like the new blood and the fire that this guy shows. That being said, he talks to the media too much. At least it sounds like he has an eye to the future rather than a do or die mentality yr in and yr out like his dad had. I honestly think that both teams want to see this guy shuffle off to Queens, IMHO. Cashman and Hal dont like a 25mil contract plus 40% lux tax and Theo doesnt have a dire need for him.

[das11209]

Mets think Santana cost is too high.

 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01112008/sports/mets/just_say_nohan_403040.htm

[BSN07]

Mets think Santana cost is too high.

 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01112008/sports/mets/just_say_nohan_403040.htm

 

Sounds like Minny might have over played its hand on this one. Kinda funny, they have one of the best pitchers in baseball and no one seems too interested. Its also funny that whenever the a team gets named the front runner the following day they always seem to back off some.

[Mr Crunchy]

mj

you like the new blood?

these guys are lacking a lot of things but credibility is the big 1 thats been mia

they may not need a helmet to navigate the office but they reek of inexperience and act like spoiled little shits

 

did i read that santana turned down 80m/4 by the twins?

thats ballsy for a pitcher and tells us that he dont intend to be in minny that much longer

[Cityofchampions33]

Sounds like Minny might have over played its hand on this one. Kinda funny' date=' they have one of the best pitchers in baseball and no one seems too interested. Its also funny that whenever the a team gets named the front runner the following day they always seem to back off some.[/quote']

 

I think his age (not huge but could be a factor), and the fact that he's not locked down already and he's asking for a multiyear deal at 20 mill AAV does not help the Twins situation.

[Mr Crunchy]

the twins offering 20per is a smoke screen unless he gets a no trade clause which he wont

carl pohlad is a disgrace

it makes me wonder why he is involved in the game at all

he brings all the passion a man could generate say watching rosie and starr jones finger jamming each other thru spandex....(i just puked in my mouth a little)

not knowing for sure but id venture to say hes the richest man in baseball or top 5 minimum...

hes got liriano coming back and a decent lineup offensivley

he could conceivably contend if the leftys dominated as they did in early 05 and their pen overachieves....

hes got to keep santana thru july and if theyre in it give him his 100/4 then dump him in the offseason if they must

to pack it in now when theyve got some legit potential to contend would be a f***ing for the twins fans and to the 24 other teamates.

[BSN07]

the twins offering 20per is a smoke screen unless he gets a no trade clause which he wont

carl pohlad is a disgrace

it makes me wonder why he is involved in the game at all

he brings all the passion a man could generate say watching rosie and starr jones finger jamming each other thru spandex....(i just puked in my mouth a little)

not knowing for sure but id venture to say hes the richest man in baseball or top 5 minimum...

hes got liriano coming back and a decent lineup offensivley

he could conceivably contend if the leftys dominated as they did in early 05 and their pen overachieves....

hes got to keep santana thru july and if theyre in it give him his 100/4 then dump him in the offseason if they must

to pack it in now when theyve got some legit potential to contend would be a f***ing for the twins fans and to the 24 other teamates.

 

 

 

 

For one, Santana said trade him before the season starts or hes not going to wave his NTC for a deadline deal in July.

 

4/100M might sound good to us, but if you believe Santana and his camp, they won't settle for anything less then 7 yrs. He might go lower but theres no way he signs a 4 yr deal.

 

 

Theres 2 most likely possibilities here, The Twins trade Santana for what they can get, or they hold onto him, cross there fingers and hope the contend in the AL Central and watch him walk at the end of the season and collect there 2 draft picks.

 

As far as Carl goes, he may be one fo the richest, but hes also one of the cheapest...

[BSN07]

UPDATE, 1-11-08 at 6:45pm: Santana's agent says he has not demanded that the Twins trade Johan prior to pitchers and catchers reporting.

 

UPDATE, 1-11-08 at 5:30pm: One source told Ken Rosenthal that the Yanks "are no longer talking to the Twins about Santana." If that's true, perhaps Hank will just announce it soon.

 

 

hahaha, ya good ol Hank should be holding a press conference for himself soon saying the Yanks are not interested in trading for Santana. Followed by the comment that they will only go 5 yrs if they do trade for him. But they will only do that if Minny trade Santana to them by the 2nd tuesday of next week... But the team would still be interested in Santana if Minny decided to trade him after the 2nd tuesday deadline...

[TheKilo]

Hank's just been tampering all over the place. Surprisingly, no word from Murray Chass on it though.

[BSN07]

Report via ESPN radio and 1050 ESPN radio, say Yanks have pulled there offer for Santana from the table.

 

 

It really looks like he might be heading to the Mets. Sox maybe but I think the Mets is more likely, which would be fine by me.

[das11209]

Link:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3195926

 

I have complete faith in Hank Steinberner that he will not do flip-flop on this:lol: :lol:

[BSN07]

One thing I can't get past in all these Santana related articles, is the fact that almost all of them think there could be a July trade deadline deal. Yes this could happen but Johan would have to back off his previous stance of trade me before the season starts or I won't waive my NTC. If Minny decides to enter the season with Johan still in the fold, then they better be prepared to let him walk and collect draft picks.

[Gom]

I am really sick of this Santana stuff. I hope he stays with Minny and they make a run in the Central.

[Cocos Disciples]

It really looks like he might be heading to the Mets. Sox maybe but I think the Mets is more likely' date=' which would be fine by me.[/quote']

 

Seconded. What are the Mets going to give up? Wasn't Reyes in the talks? IMO that'd be foolish.

[schillingouttheks]

Maybe if Hank just stopped switching his position and stopped bringing it up, you wouldn't be hearing so much about it.

[das11209]

OK - Hank is getting better - he changed his mind in a day.

Seriously - next year will be a big circus in the Bronx

Yankees VP Hank Steinbrenner said his team was still in the hunt for Johan Santana.

 

Steinbrenner said ESPN's report that the Yankees pulled their offer was untrue. "There wasn't an official offer anyway. You can't withdraw something that wasn't there," Steinbrenner said. "There was no official offer on the table at this time." According to Steinbrenner, there has been some dialogue between his club and the Twins. "It's still in the deciding process," he said. "We're still discussing it. There's still a little talk back and forth."

Source: The Associated Press

[TheKilo]

Hank's a f***ing joke. Of course jacko likes him.

[jacksonianmarch]

I like Hank, but I can seriously drop my liking of him if he drops Hughes for Santana.

[26 to 6]

I like Hank' date=' but I can seriously drop my liking of him if he drops Hughes for Santana.[/quote']

Me too.

 

And I like Hank, but not very much. I like his energy and enthusiasm, sort of a throwback to big poppa, but I just wish he would shut the hell up sometimes and let the baseball operations staff do what they get paid to do.