Torre rejects Yankee deal

[ORS]

But wait, the Sox were villains when Pedro made the same kind of comments. Here's your timeline, when it begins is irrelevant, but this is the coming chain of events:

 

-at some point, someone will call Mo out for the points made here

-this ice breaker will open a series (not many but not few) articles critical of Rivera

-he'll sign elsewhere

-blame will shift (press and fans) to the Yankees and how they did a "hatchet job" in the papers to send him off

-everyone wakes up, and it's nothing but puff pieces in the press

 

Happened with Pedro, some of it happened with Damon, and nitwits like 26 thought it was exemplary of how the Sox treat their "heroes". Such things would "never" happen with the saintly Yankees.

 

Personally, I agree with what most of you are saying now, about how Mo needs to STFU, and if a team wants the year to evaluate the player, then that's how it is. At the same time, you have to understand Mo's POV. If they are going to evaluate him, then he can evaluate them, and that's all he's doing. No preferential treatment from them, none from him. Tit for tat. Even, Steven. All that said, I'm loving it. Loving it for no reason other than the thought of people like 26 realizing the glass house they built out of Yankee "class" doesn't provide much shelter in a wind storm and the debris is flying around.

[Mr Crunchy]

funny how that works

the yankee mystique has been exposed

georgies silver spoon fed bastard offspring will run this team into purgatory by virtue of greed

we saw what happened here when tom yawkey retired to the big Klan meeting in the sky

the white snake of westwood,john harrington,the old skank jean jeanie,buddy,hayward sullivan etc....

it never goes well when theres too many hands in the soup...

the yankees era of torre is over and with that we close a chapter on one of the best runs in baseball history that still maybe deemed failing due to their october effort this century..

i never thought much of torre as a manager

his team,despite their professed love for him,stuffed it up his ass when it counted most and he has been out coached by the likes of francona and that old 78 year old florida manager who is now in a senility home 4 years after beating joe in the 03 classic.

 

f*** you yankee guys

you deserve pain suffering confusion and about 80 more years of ineptitude.

[schillingouttheks]

The Yankees offered him a one-year contract? I don't care how much money he was being paid. After everything he's done for the Yankees, this is how the organization says they want him back? ********. They just didn't have the balls to say to his face "We are going in a different direction. Sorry, but thanks for everything." So, they make it look like they want him back by offering him a salary that will keep him as the highest paid manager in baseball, but for only a year? If they really wanted him back, they would have pursued him after he rejected the offer and asked what they could do to get him to return. Instead, they stood up and said "thanks for everything, bye."

 

The Yankees' brass needs to grow a pair. Seriously.

[TheKilo]

I have to admit I'm kinda getting very annoyed with some of the comments Rivera has made since the end of the season. Why is he so hung up on not getting a deal done in spring training? This is the same team that has made him how much money? This team has given him millions and millions of dollars and he feels "disrespected" because the Yankees didnt get a deal done in Spring Training? He sounds like a little baby. I wish I was that disrespected.

 

Maybe because it's been Yankee policy to NEVER negotiate in season until that was broken when Cashman wanted to talk to ARod this season?

 

How does that look for Rivera and Posada, two of the main cogs of the Yankee dynasty?

[TheKilo]

hey' date=' we can take the small drop in production going from Rivera to F. Cordero while moving up in the draft order and getting a supplemental in the process. SWEET. I hope some team gives Mo all he wants and more. The guy was out of this world and I love the guy, but if he wants out then so be it.[/quote']

 

PLEASE SIGN FRANCISCO CORDERO. PLEASE.

[VA Sox Fan]

bump for mosox

[He Hate Me]

Sorry to see you go Joe...I woulda liked to see you stay but only if you got a more aggressive bench coach (Bowa?) to balance out your comatose state which is perfect for the 162 game marathon.

 

You got to go out on your own terms of some sort after having to twist for a bit. I hope the Yanks bring you back in a FO or consultant role after the wounds have been healed.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees offered him a one-year contract? I don't care how much money he was being paid. After everything he's done for the Yankees, this is how the organization says they want him back? ********. They just didn't have the balls to say to his face "We are going in a different direction. Sorry, but thanks for everything." So, they make it look like they want him back by offering him a salary that will keep him as the highest paid manager in baseball, but for only a year? If they really wanted him back, they would have pursued him after he rejected the offer and asked what they could do to get him to return. Instead, they stood up and said "thanks for everything, bye."

 

The Yankees' brass needs to grow a pair. Seriously.

 

Schill, I actually dont think it went that way. Couple things. The Yankee organization is at a tumultuous time. George is leaving. The organizational stalwarts are aging and some are FAs. There is a new crop of young kids coming in who look damn good to this point. And, Torre has disappointed badly for a fourth yr running. I dont think they wanted him to go to be honest with you. But I also dont think they wanted him there long term. As has been the MO of this FO since Cashman took control, he wants flexibility, and having 21 mil sunk into his manager is not flexibility IMO. He asked Joe to take what our FAs from last yr did, a 1-2 yr offer. He didnt take it. So be it. He was offered the possibility of making more money than any manager in history (over himself mind you) if he did his job well. He turned it down, so be it.

 

And to be honest with you, I think Joe wanted the opportunity to say "No thanks" to George's face regardless of the offer.

[Gom]

The Yankees offered him a one-year contract? I don't care how much money he was being paid. After everything he's done for the Yankees, this is how the organization says they want him back? ********. They just didn't have the balls to say to his face "We are going in a different direction. Sorry, but thanks for everything." So, they make it look like they want him back by offering him a salary that will keep him as the highest paid manager in baseball, but for only a year? If they really wanted him back, they would have pursued him after he rejected the offer and asked what they could do to get him to return. Instead, they stood up and said "thanks for everything, bye."

 

The Yankees' brass needs to grow a pair. Seriously.

You can't be serious, schillingouttheks.

 

The offer: A one year deal that makes him the HIGHEST PAID MANAGER IN BASEBALL. A 1 million bonus for every round made in the post-season. A guranteed 8 MILLION DOLLAR salary for 2009 if he wins the AL PENNANT.

 

Why on earth should we not be paid based on our accomplishments? I am paid that way in the real world. I get bonuses if I hit certain levels. To tell you the truth, I couldn't live my lifestyle WITHOUT hitting my bonuses. I factor in my bonuses before I get them because of how hard I work.

 

He is a greedy son-of-a bitch, if you ask me. He wants to keep his 7 million dollar salary or get a raise...based on what? Three consecutive first round losses? Don't give me this s*** about what he won before. That's what his salary the last years was for. Seven million a year, fine, he delivered championships, and he was compensated. At this point, EARN YOUR MONEY.

 

Apparently, he didn't want to. f*** HIM.

 

What do you think the percentage of managers who would take the deal Torre walked away from would be?

 

Let compare him to Francona. Francona was signed for two years, at 4.05 million. He has bonuses for...HOLY s***!!! Winning the ALDS, ALCS, and the World Series. His combined salary for two years is a million dollars less than Torre would get for ONE YEAR. I don't have access to bonus numbers, but I'm sure it's not $1,000,000 a round.

 

Once again, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out Joe, you greedy son-of-a bitch.

[TheKilo]

Schill' date=' I actually dont think it went that way. Couple things. The Yankee organization is at a tumultuous time. George is leaving. The organizational stalwarts are aging and some are FAs. There is a new crop of young kids coming in who look damn good to this point.[/quote']

 

Can't argue.

 

And, Torre has disappointed badly for a fourth yr running.

 

How did he disappoint? Tell me plz.

 

I dont think they wanted him to go to be honest with you.

 

Then they would have given him more than one guaranteed year.

 

But I also dont think they wanted him there long term.

 

Can't argue.

 

As has been the MO of this FO since Cashman took control, he wants flexibility, and having 21 mil sunk into his manager is not flexibility IMO.

 

Then what were the Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Kei Igawa signings, etc.

 

Toree did more for the Yanks than any of those players did.

 

He asked Joe to take what our FAs from last yr did, a 1-2 yr offer. He didnt take it. So be it.

 

Don't kid yourself. It was a one year offer.

 

He was offered the possibility of making more money than any manager in history (over himself mind you) if he did his job well. He turned it down, so be it.

 

But Torre did his job well this year. Not his fault his players got injured or Cashman sucked at assembling a rotation.

 

And again, it wasn't about the money. It was about job security.

 

 

And to be honest with you, I think Joe wanted the opportunity to say "No thanks" to George's face regardless of the offer.

 

With the way he's been treated by the fans, the media, and the FO, can you blame the guy?

[TheKilo]

You can't be serious, schillingouttheks.

 

The offer: A one year deal that makes him the HIGHEST PAID MANAGER IN BASEBALL. A 1 million bonus for every round made in the post-season. A guranteed 8 MILLION DOLLAR salary for 2009 if he wins the AL PENNANT.

 

Joe Torre wanted job security. He wanted to manage til he was 70.

 

[qute]Why on earth should we not be paid based on our accomplishments? I am paid that way in the real world.

 

Joe Torre probably did his best managing job this season. The players attribute their success in the second half to him. He's a great players manager and sticks up for his guys in the pressure cooker of New York.

 

Seems to me he did his job quite well.

 

I get bonuses if I hit certain levels. To tell you the truth, I couldn't live my lifestyle WITHOUT hitting my bonuses. I factor in my bonuses before I get them because of how hard I work.

 

That's fine, but Torre has been supremely successful in his job.

 

He is a greedy son-of-a bitch, if you ask me. He wants to keep his 7 million dollar salary or get a raise...based on what? Three consecutive first round losses?

 

Job security Job security Job security Job security purple monkey dishwasher

 

What games did Torre lose in the playoffs the last three years?

 

Don't give me this s*** about what he won before. That's what his salary the last years was for. Seven million a year, fine, he delivered championships, and he was compensated. At this point, EARN YOUR MONEY.

 

He did.

 

And you say Yankee fans have no sense of entitlement? LOL!

 

Apparently, he didn't want to. f*** HIM.

 

What do you think the percentage of managers who would take the deal Torre walked away from would be?

 

Very few, but very few managers have his track record of success.

 

Let compare him to Francona. Francona was signed for two years, at 4.05 million. He has bonuses for...HOLY s***!!! Winning the ALDS, ALCS, and the World Series. His combined salary for two years is a million dollars less than Torre would get for ONE YEAR. I don't have access to bonus numbers, but I'm sure it's not $1,000,000 a round.

 

Terry Francona will be paid handsomely when they extend his contract this offseason.

 

 

Once again, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out Joe, you greedy son-of-a bitch.

 

No criticism for Cashman? The FO for leaving Torre twisting in the wind?

 

Typical.

[jacksonianmarch]

How did he disappoint? Tell me plz.

was at the helm for the worst collapse in the history of professional sports to the one team that nobody could stomach him losing it to. Then he proceeds to go 4-13 in his last 17 post season games with the team that had the biggest payroll and the biggest assembly of talent. If that isnt disappointing, then I dont know what is.

 

Then they would have given him more than one guaranteed year.

 

they didnt want him to go, but they didnt want him there long term. How else can a 1yr deal be interpreted?

 

Then what were the Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Kei Igawa signings, etc.

Igawa's signing was a crapshoot and a reaction to what the sox did. Wright was an absolute George move because he saw that guy dominate us 8 yrs prior. Pavano was a smart move at the time that completely blew up in his face. And if you are measuring your success against the Pavano's of the world, the you arent really doing anything noteworthy.

 

Don't kid yourself. It was a one year offer.

 

if he made it to the WS it was a guaranteed 2 yr deal.

 

But Torre did his job well this year. Not his fault his players got injured or Cashman sucked at assembling a rotation.

 

And again, it wasn't about the money. It was about job security.

 

Torre did well if you consider the hole he helped the team climb out of, but the fact remains that he managed that team into the hole to begin with. Then he faced a team that we totally manhandled during the regular season and his boys came out flat. His management was suspect and we were home by the 10th of october for the 3rd yr in a row. You cannot fire the players, and somebody has to pay. And for all those who are now on the Torre side of things saying that the postseason is all about luck, then you cannot give him credit for when he won the series.

 

With the way he's been treated by the fans, the media, and the FO, can you blame the guy?

He has deserved every warning shot. Have you watched the games he manages? He is quite possibly THE WORST manager of pitching period. He pulls guys when they have more gas, he leaves guys in when they are totally done, he burns reliable guys out until they are no longer reliable, and he lets his other options rot during mopup time. The guy has no idea when a pitcher is done until it is too late. I have SCREAMED on this forum multiple times that Torre needed to pull so and so a pitcher. And it had nothing to do with their history (well maybe some), but it had everything to do with their pitches. How does Torre not see that Wang is done when he is in the 7th or 8th and his sinker is floating to the top of the zone. how does he not see that Mussina might need to be on a short hook when his curve isnt locating. These are the types of things managers need to see and Joe just doesnt. So good riddance.

[jacksonianmarch]

 

No criticism for Cashman? The FO for leaving Torre twisting in the wind?

 

Typical.

 

how was he left twisting in the wind? He got an offer on October 17th. We were eliminated on October 8th. Instead of making a reactionary decision, the yankee FO took a full week off before convening. They convened and 2 days later, Torre had an offer. How was he twisting in the wind? He knew they werent making a decision until at least October 15th. He knew that. He got an offer on the 17th. 2 whole days is twisting in the wind?

 

Someone's twisting, and that is you Kilo. Twisting the media to get a rise out of yankee fans. It aint working.

[Gom]

Here is the question. How good of a manager is Torre, in your mind, Kilo? Is he the best overall manager in the game? Does he suck? Is he middle of the road? Rank him for me. Then let's slot his salary, and find out what he should make. Bet you it's not close to the 5 million he was offered.

 

Truth is, you wanted Torre back because that basically guaranteed you guys had a great shot at the AL East next year, better than you would have with say...a trained chimpanzee.

 

Francona's managing style runs rings around this idiot.

[TheKilo]

was at the helm for the worst collapse in the history of professional sports to the one team that nobody could stomach him losing it to. Then he proceeds to go 4-13 in his last 17 post season games with the team that had the biggest payroll and the biggest assembly of talent. If that isnt disappointing' date=' then I dont know what is.[/quote']

 

If Mo Rivera gets three outs in Game 4 in 2004 you're not saying that.

If Randy Johnson doesn't tank in the stadium in '05 you might have beaten the Angels.

If the offense doesn't take the series off against Detroit last year, you may have won the WS.

If CMW doesn't tank this year, you might beat the Guardians.

 

The funny thing is the one move in this postseason that I feel you could really knock Torrw on was starting Clemens over Mussina/Hughes in Game 3, but you won that game.

 

they didnt want him to go, but they didnt want him there long term. How else can a 1yr deal be interpreted?

 

They were well aware of what he wanted in a contract, yet did not even try to accomodate him.

 

For all of the success he brought the Yankees, it seemed like it was a slap in the face.

 

 

Igawa's signing was a crapshoot and a reaction to what the sox did.

 

Doesn't take away from the fact he was an awful signing. Hey, you can use hindsight with Theo's moves, so I can do the same with Cashman.

 

Wright was an absolute George move because he saw that guy dominate us 8 yrs prior.

 

"George" moves are such ********. It's a copout Yankee fans use when a move doesn't work.

 

Pavano was a smart move at the time that completely blew up in his face. And if you are measuring your success against the Pavano's of the world, the you arent really doing anything noteworthy.

 

Again, hindsight....and that may have been the worst move ever.

 

if he made it to the WS it was a guaranteed 2 yr deal.

 

Maybe he realized Cashman built a s***** team around him.

 

Torre did well if you consider the hole he helped the team climb out of, but the fact remains that he managed that team into the hole to begin with.

 

OK, how so?

 

Then he faced a team that we totally manhandled during the regular season and his boys came out flat.

 

Or CMW s*** the bed. You say ToMAYto, I say ToMAHto.

 

His management was suspect and we were home by the 10th of october for the 3rd yr in a row.

 

What moves did he make that cost the Yanks anything?

 

You cannot fire the players, and somebody has to pay. And for all those who are now on the Torre side of things saying that the postseason is all about luck, then you cannot give him credit for when he won the series.

 

That's fine. Cashman has gotten ZERO heat for the crappy teams he's fielded the last few years.

 

Meanwhile, Theo gets killed on a regular f***ing basis.

 

If the postseason is all about luck, you can't claim he should be fired because he didn't win there. He got them there, which is the most important thing.

 

If you don't think the playoffs are a crapshoot, then you give Torre credit.

 

 

He has deserved every warning shot. Have you watched the games he manages? He is quite possibly THE WORST manager of pitching period. He pulls guys when they have more gas, he leaves guys in when they are totally done, he burns reliable guys out until they are no longer reliable, and he lets his other options rot during mopup time. The guy has no idea when a pitcher is done until it is too late. I have SCREAMED on this forum multiple times that Torre needed to pull so and so a pitcher. And it had nothing to do with their history (well maybe some), but it had everything to do with their pitches. How does Torre not see that Wang is done when he is in the 7th or 8th and his sinker is floating to the top of the zone. how does he not see that Mussina might need to be on a short hook when his curve isnt locating. These are the types of things managers need to see and Joe just doesnt. So good riddance.

 

Maybe the team just had a s***** pitching staff assembled for them...

[TheKilo]

Here is the question. How good of a manager is Torre' date=' in your mind, Kilo? Is he the best overall manager in the game? Does he suck? Is he middle of the road? Rank him for me. Then let's slot his salary, and find out what he should make. Bet you it's not close to the 5 million he was offered. [/quote']

 

I would say he and Francona are eerily similar. Both are top 5 AL managers. If I had to rank the AL managers I'd probably rank the top 5 as such:

 

Francona

Torre

Scoscia

Leyland

Wedge (though I think he kinda sucks)

 

Truth is, you wanted Torre back because that basically guaranteed you guys had a great shot at the AL East next year, better than you would have with say...a trained chimpanzee.

 

Francona's managing style runs rings around this idiot.

 

 

So the 9 straight division titles mean nothing?

[BudLight]

Torre had no problem cashing the $19.2M in checks the last three years, in return what did he bring back to the organization, this after getting completely outmanaged and outplayed by Francona ($2M) and the Red Sox in 04. Joe was lucky he was given that extension at that time, many managers would have been let go after that ALCS performance of 04. Baseball is a business - this particular company invests more in their payroll than any other team and expects results. Those results go directly to the bottom line of the company. More games played, more championships won, more revenue for the company. Incentive laden contracts are nothing new in baseball, so why is it such a big deal for a manager - it's simple - produce and you will be rewarded. Thanks Joe for the 12 years and 4 championships, but you have run your course in the company, it's time for a new employee.

[YAZMAN]

Mo was quoted as saying the yankees are "just one of 30 teams" after the news broke yesterday. If he wants to bolt' date=' then thanks for the memories and the draft picks. We dont need to go long term on Mo anyway. He's 38 and a reliever, bad combo. Same with Posada. I love those two guys, but I think we could set ourselves up for the future with their departures.[/quote']

 

A mile wide, an inch deep...

[26 to 6]

Please. Anyone who's seen the drivel from when you posted regularly knows that this is the only possible answer you would opine. You're on record stating that the Sox always run their heroes out of town while the Yankees "honor" them until the end. Wake up and smell what you are shoveling. There are ugly goodbyes for every franchise' date=' and the way Torre was treated was ugly. Don't worry, I don't expect you to see it for what it is. The realization that your self-imposed air of superiority is a farce might make your head pop.[/quote']

What are you talking about? Why are you always so argumentative and confrontational? I said I was going to reserve judgement...and didnt say the Yankees honored him or anything. While yes, I believe it was a fair offer, it certainly could have been better.

 

Why don't you keep your hard on for me IN your pants and out of your mouth. I know it might be hard. but please try. I'm glad I can get you so riled up though.

[TheKilo]

http://www.satyamag.com/sat.site.images/mrmet2.jpg

[26 to 6]

The Yankees offered him a one-year contract? I don't care how much money he was being paid. After everything he's done for the Yankees, this is how the organization says they want him back? ********. They just didn't have the balls to say to his face "We are going in a different direction. Sorry, but thanks for everything." So, they make it look like they want him back by offering him a salary that will keep him as the highest paid manager in baseball, but for only a year? If they really wanted him back, they would have pursued him after he rejected the offer and asked what they could do to get him to return. Instead, they stood up and said "thanks for everything, bye."

 

The Yankees' brass needs to grow a pair. Seriously.

Nobody can disagree that the approach taken by the Yankees was the wrong one. Yeah, he should have gotten a better offer, but I still maintain that all things considered it was a pretty fair offer. He knows he's been under fire the past few years, so being asked to take a paycut, if he was asked back at all shouldnt have surprised him. The length of the offer put him in the position to be on a short leash next year, pretty much at ownership's disposal with a reduced salary and nothing guaranteed for the following year.

 

Basically either way you look at it, I think it can be said that if the Yankees really wanted him back, they could have done more to accomodate him, and vice versa. Joe is 67 years old, how long does he want guaranteed? If he REALLLLY wanted to be back he could have taken the offer. I think both parties just realized that either way, they were prepared to move on.

[26 to 6]

http://www.satyamag.com/sat.site.images/mrmet2.jpg

Give it a f***ing rest, would you?

 

I really hope you NEVER root for any team other than the Red Sox. And if there is every any evidence that you have on this board, you will NEVER hear the end of it.

 

 

And you do it for no reason too.....what relevance does your ridiculous picture have in regards to the topic? Enough with the stupid, pointless posts please.

[26 to 6]

I would say he and Francona are eerily similar. Both are top 5 AL managers. If I had to rank the AL managers I'd probably rank the top 5 as such:

 

Francona

Torre

Scoscia

Leyland

Wedge (though I think he kinda sucks)

 

 

 

 

So the 9 straight division titles mean nothing?

 

Hey ORS, where ya at? You like to jump on people you allege to be homers and make biased statements. This post clearly represents that!

 

Terry Francona best manager in the American League? Are you serious? You MUST be kidding me. Better than Torre? No way. Better than Leyland? Yeah right! Better than Scioscia....nope! Ron Gardenhire? I wouldn't say so. You're out of your mind and I suggest you seek some help.

[TheKilo]

Give it a f***ing rest, would you?

 

I really hope you NEVER root for any team other than the Red Sox. And if there is every any evidence that you have on this board, you will NEVER hear the end of it.

 

 

And you do it for no reason too.....what relevance does your ridiculous picture have in regards to the topic? Enough with the stupid, pointless posts please.

 

I don't root for any other baseball team with any kind of passion outside of the Red Sox.

 

You are really difficult to take seriously when you root for two teams, ESPECIALLY those who have rival fanbases like the Yankees and the Mets.

 

Do you root for the Jets and Giants too? Nets and Knicks? Islanders and Rangers?

 

Fans like yourself rub me the wrong way. I have always been of the school of thought that you pick one team to owe your allegiances to. Any more, and you reserve the right to be criticized on a consistent basis.

 

I bet if we poll all of the other Yankee fans here you'd be the only one who is also a Mets fan. If you want to be a bandwagon jumper so be it. Don't get pissy when people call you out on it.

[TheKilo]

Hey ORS, where ya at? You like to jump on people you allege to be homers and make biased statements. This post clearly represents that!

 

Terry Francona best manager in the American League? Are you serious? You MUST be kidding me. Better than Torre? No way. Better than Leyland? Yeah right! Better than Scioscia....nope! Ron Gardenhire? I wouldn't say so. You're out of your mind and I suggest you seek some help.

 

Your Yankee fan brethren seem to feel that Francona is a better manager than Torre. Ask them their reasons.

 

Leyland played Neiffi Perez on a consistent basis, and had him bat leadoff on a consistent basis last season. He insists on using Todd Jones to close games when he has Fernando Rodney and Joel Zumaya at his disposal. Tell me again why he's better at what he does than Francona? Also, he's conveniently tucked away in Detroit, where he doesn't have 1/10th the criticism of Francona in Boston.

 

Scioscia and Gardenhire are competent managers, but I don't feel they are better than Francona. Scioscia has gotten outmanaged twice by Francona in the two postseason series the two teams have played each other in. Gardenhire chose to play guys like Nick Punto on a consistent basis this season, and let's not forget how badly he f***ed up 2004 against the Yankees.

 

I appreciate the "you're out of your mind" comment, though. It's real refreshing to hear it from someone new on this board. Now, if you wouldn't mind, could you please tell me why Scioscia, Gardenhire, Torre, and Leyland are better managers than Terry Francona? Or is it past your cognitive abilities to form a rational argument?

[TheKilo]

Torre weighs in on his departure:

 

"I just felt the contract offer, the terms of the contract, were probably the thing I had the toughest time with -- the one year for one thing, the incentives for another thing," Torre said of his reasons for declining the offer. "I've been there 12 years and I didn't think motivation was needed."

 

Torre, who had just completed a $19.2 million, three-year contract, turned down the deal after meeting for an hour in Tampa with team owner George Steinbrenner, his sons Hal and Hank and team management.

 

Torre said the Thursday meeting went 20 minutes and that there was no negotiation on the proposed contract terms. He would not disclose what terms he offered to manage the team during the meeting, other than that the team did not budge from its offer.

 

"The fact that somebody is reducing your salary is just telling me they're not satisfied with what you're doing," Torre said Friday in a hotel ballroom with a small army of media members in attendance. "There really was no negotiation involved. I was hoping there would be, but there wasn't.

 

"If somebody wants you to do a job, if it takes them two weeks to figure out, yeah, we want to do this, should do this, yeah, you're a little suspicious."

Asked if he would return if the team reconsidered, Torre said he wasn't expecting that to happen. He said committment, not money, was the biggest factor.

 

"I like to work with people -- there's a certain trust that has to be earned and forged in order to have the commitment to follow," Torre said. "I can't answer that question because I don't anticipate it happening. If someone wanted me to manage here, I'd be managing here."

 

"Yes it was a very generous offer," he added, "but it wasn't the type of commitment that 'we're trying to do something together,' as opposed to 'let me see what you can do for me.'"

[26 to 6]

I don't root for any other baseball team with any kind of passion outside of the Red Sox.

 

You are really difficult to take seriously when you root for two teams, ESPECIALLY those who have rival fanbases like the Yankees and the Mets.

 

Do you root for the Jets and Giants too? Nets and Knicks? Islanders and Rangers?

 

Fans like yourself rub me the wrong way. I have always been of the school of thought that you pick one team to owe your allegiances to. Any more, and you reserve the right to be criticized on a consistent basis.

 

I bet if we poll all of the other Yankee fans here you'd be the only one who is also a Mets fan. If you want to be a bandwagon jumper so be it. Don't get pissy when people call you out on it.

I don't root passionately for the Mets. Casually, yes, but certainly not passionately. I do also root casually for the Nets, Giants, and Rangers while I consider myself a fan of the Jets, Knicks, and Islanders. I live in New York. There is nothing wrong with pulling for a team from New York to do well. When it comes to head to head competition between the teams I am passionate about and the teams I casually pull for on the side then make no mistake about where my loyalties lie.

 

Your Yankee fan brethren seem to feel that Francona is a better manager than Torre. Ask them their reasons.

That's their opinion which everybody is certainly entitled to. Terry Francona has been the Sox's manager for four seasons. He has nowehre near qualified himself for the distinction as the American League's best manager. No way.

 

Scioscia and Gardenhire are competent managers, but I don't feel they are better than Francona. Scioscia has gotten outmanaged twice by Francona in the two postseason series the two teams have played each other in. Gardenhire chose to play guys like Nick Punto on a consistent basis this season, and let's not forget how badly he f***ed up 2004 against the Yankees.

Look at the roster he had to work with. What do you want from the guy? SInce joining the Twins he's done a close to fantastic job there.

 

I appreciate the "you're out of your mind" comment, though. It's real refreshing to hear it from someone new on this board. Now, if you wouldn't mind, could you please tell me why Scioscia, Gardenhire, Torre, and Leyland are better managers than Terry Francona? Or is it past your cognitive abilities to form a rational argument?

New? Guess again, buddy.

 

Why don't you do me one better and tell me why Francona is the best manager in the Aerican League. Please entertain my mind and tell me why the stoodge of the Red Sox front office, forced to follow their managerial formula, is better than more experienced, successful, and established managers (i.e. Torre, Leyland, Scioscia, etc.)

[TheKilo]

I don't root passionately for the Mets. Casually' date=' yes, but certainly not passionately. I do also root casually for the Nets, Giants, and Rangers while I consider myself a fan of the Jets, Knicks, and Islanders. I live in New York. There is nothing wrong with pulling for a team from New York to do well. When it comes to head to head competition between the teams I am passionate about and the teams I casually pull for on the side then make no mistake about where my loyalties lie.[/quote']

 

That's your prerogative. Don't get pissy when I call you out on being a jumper then.

 

 

That's their opinion which everybody is certainly entitled to. Terry Francona has been a Major League manager for four seasons. He has nowehre near qualified himself for the distinction as the American League's best manager. No way.

 

He's been a big league manager for longer than four seasons.

 

What does the guy have to do to appease you? Win a WS? Win a division?

 

What metrics do you measure a manager's success on?

 

 

Look at the roster he had to work with. What do you want from the guy? SInce joining the Twins he's done a close to fantastic job there.

 

I said he was a very competent manager. His shortcomings leave him lacking behind Francona.

 

Besides, Gardenhire's been a manager for what, two years longer than Francona? What instantly qualifies him then?

 

 

New? Guess again, buddy.

 

Reading comprehension - F

 

This is the first time you've told me I'm out of my mind. Hence, "refreshing to hear it from someone new."

 

Why don't you do me one better and tell me why Francona is the best manager in the Aerican League. Please entertain my mind and tell me why the stoodge of the Red Sox front office, forced to follow their managerial formula, is better than more experienced, successful, and established managers (i.e. Torre, Leyland, Scioscia, etc.)

 

Stooge? You're funny.

 

Tell you what. Tell me the metrics of a successful manager and I'll tell you Francona is better than all of them, IMO.

[He Hate Me]

Kilo,

 

thanks for all your posts lately, they make for good reading....but you are kind of going overboard with the sentence by sentence reply thing. once in a while is cool, but it gets kind of tedious after a while

[26 to 6]

That's your prerogative. Don't get pissy when I call you out on being a jumper then.

Where am I jumping? I never declared myself strictly a Met fan and not a Yankee fan. I'm not jumping from wagon to wagon, what are you talking about?

 

Reading comprehension - F

 

This is the first time you've told me I'm out of my mind. Hence, "refreshing to hear it from someone new."

hahaha my mistake. You did say however "It's real refreshing to hear it from someone new on this board".

Can't really blame me too much...just a misunderstanding.

 

I said he was a very competent manager. His shortcomings leave him lacking behind Francona.

 

Besides, Gardenhire's been a manager for what, two years longer than Francona? What instantly qualifies him then?

He's not. I never said he was the best manager in the A.L. I just said that I would take him over Francona.

 

He's been a big league manager for longer than four seasons.

He's been an American League manager for four seasons, excuse me.