October 16th @ Cleveland: ALCS Game 4

[TheKilo]

Damon's is expensive' date=' but when healthy he is worth it. Will he be healthy again? I don't know. Crisp is just overpaid. Plain and simple. He's a 4th OF at best.[/quote']

 

3 years, 15.5 million is overpaid?

 

You know who's overpaid? Proven Veteran Jason Varitek.

[soxfan17881]

In all seriousness... I'm shocked at these fans in Cleveland. Up (during the game) by 2 games, up in the game by 5 runs, and they were downright hostile! I mean we expect this kind of s*** in New York, and by that I only mean because of the year-after-year rivalry. But, Cleveland? What the hell?

 

Classless.

[TedWilliams101]

I'll take Damon and his 15.5 million a year.

 

Overpaid is JD Drew. I want my idiots back.

[a700hitter]

3 years, 15.5 million is overpaid?

 

You know who's overpaid? Proven Veteran Jason Varitek.

That is overpaying for a 4th OF with little re no offensive pop. He is Darren Lewis with more speed and a much weaker arm. The FO expected a lot more from him than they have gotten.

[TheKilo]

That is overpaying for a 4th OF with little re no offensive pop. He is Darren Lewis with more speed and a much weaker arm. The FO expected a lot more from him than they have gotten.

 

I missed where $5 million for a guy who produced 8 defensive win shares this season and hit for a better average than Varitek is overpaying.

[a700hitter]

I missed where $5 million for a guy who produced 8 defensive win shares this season and hit for a better average than Varitek is overpaying.

Darren Lewis should make a comeback. Crisp needs to hit the bench.

[TedWilliams101]

You can't compare him to Tek. Tek isn't here for his bat, he's here for his work behind the plate and his game preparation with the pitching staff. Thats just not fair only considering his hitting.

[a700hitter]

Girardi is making a big deal about Manny showboating. Would someone tell me if that had any impact on the outcome of the game? I think he should analyze why the Guardians won.

[TedWilliams101]

Ellsbury needs to take Coco's place. And Keilty needs to take Drews place.

[TheKilo]

You can't compare him to Tek. Tek isn't here for his bat' date=' he's here for his work behind the plate and his game preparation with the pitching staff. Thats just not fair only considering his hitting.[/quote']

 

So why is it fair to discount Crisp's defense?

 

Darren Lewis should make a comeback. Crisp needs to hit the bench.

 

This all you got? Do you realize how good 8 defensive win shares is?

[a700hitter]

So why is it fair to discount Crisp's defense?

 

 

 

This all you got? Do you realize how good 8 defensive win shares is?

The pool of catchers is much thinner than 4th OF's.

 

Edit: As good as Crisp was at catching flies, he has no arm at all. Third string catchers tag up on him. Runners always take the extra base. He's a 4th OF and pinch runner. As a starter he's a gaping hole in the lineup

[a700hitter]

We need Pedroia to get hot and get on a roll for two or three games. That is the spark we need.

[TedWilliams101]

Ellsbury should be leading off. We need a spark. Ellsbury is the spark.

[Gom]

Crisp's contract is far from expensive.

 

Damon's is expensive.

Damon is better. Period. If you had Damon leading off, you wouldn't have an automatic out in your lineup.

 

As for my quote, I meant hitters showing pitchers up. My bad.

[zackredsox]

Boston                             ab  r  h  2b  3b  hr  rbi  w  k  avg.
Pedroia, Dustin 2b                   4  0  1   0   0   0    0  0  0  .172
Youkilis, Kevin 1b                   4  1  2   0   0   1    1  0  0  .333
Ortiz, David dh                      4  1  1   0   0   1    1  0  1  .500
Ramirez, Manny lf                    4  1  2   0   0   1    1  0  0  .429
Lowell, Mike 3b                      4  0  0   0   0   0    0  0  0  .280
Drew, JD rf                          4  0  1   0   0   0    0  0  1  .231
Crisp, Coco cf                       4  0  0   0   0   0    0  0  1  .192
Mirabelli, Doug c                    2  0  0   0   0   0    0  0  1  .000
 Varitek, Jason c                    1  0  1   0   0   0    0  0  0  .192
Lugo, Julio ss                       3  0  0   0   0   0    0  0  0  .208
 Totals                             34  3  8   0   0   3    3  0  4 

 Cleveland                          ab  r  h  2b  3b  hr  rbi  w  k  avg.
Sizemore, Grady cf                   3  1  0   0   0   0    0  2  0  .281
Cabrera, Asdrubal 2b                 5  1  1   0   0   0    1  0  2  .235
Hafner, Travis dh                    4  0  0   0   0   0    0  0  4  .226
Martinez, Victor 1b                  4  1  1   0   0   0    1  0  0  .344
Peralta, Jhonny ss                   4  1  2   1   0   1    3  0  1  .406
Lofton, Kenny lf                     4  1  1   0   0   0    0  0  1  .333
Blake, Casey 3b                      4  1  2   0   0   1    2  0  1  .212
Gutierrez, Franklin rf               2  1  1   0   0   0    0  2  1  .182
Shoppach, Kelly c                    3  0  1   0   0   0    0  0  2  .500
 Totals                             33  7  9   1   0   2    7  4 12 

 Boston            0 0 0  0 0 3  0 0 0  --  3
 Cleveland         0 0 0  0 7 0  0 0 X  --  7

    E_K.Youkilis. LOB_Boston 4, Cleveland 7. 2B_J.Peralta. HR_D.Ortiz (3) off 
P.Byrd, K.Youkilis (2) off P.Byrd, M.Ramirez (4) off J.Lewis, C.Blake (1) off 
T.Wakefield, J.Peralta (2) off M.Delcarmen. SB_G.Sizemore (2), K.Lofton (2). 
GIDP_J.Lugo. DP_Cleveland 1 (J.Peralta, A.Cabrera and V.Martinez).

 Boston                      IP      H  R ER BB SO  HR  PC-ST   ERA
Wakefield, Tim (L 0-1)      4 2-3    5  5  5  2  7   1  76-51  9.64
Delcarmen, Manny             1-3     3  2  2  1  1   1  25-13  9.00
Lester, Jon                   3      1  0  0  1  4   0  50-34  4.91

 Cleveland                   IP      H  R ER BB SO  HR  PC-ST   ERA
Byrd, Paul (W 2-0)            5      6  2  2  0  4   2  73-54  3.60
Lewis, Jensen                 2      2  1  1  0  0   1  26-19  3.68
Betancourt, Rafael            2      0  0  0  0  0   0  15-12  0.00

     P.Byrd pitched to 2 batters in the 6th.

HBP_by T.Wakefield (K.Shoppach). 

[Beckett95]

Ellsbury should be leading off. We need a spark. Ellsbury is the spark.

 

yes, but Tito doesnt have the balls to do it

 

who the f*** cares about Crisps 8 defensive wins, Ellsbury is just as good as him defensively and can actually hit

[Gom]

You get the feeling that Cleveland is destined. The bug game, the non-error by Youkilis, the sure double play ball that Wakefield deflected....

[TedWilliams101]

f*** that. There is no such thing as "destined". They haven't won s*** yet.

[Taliesin]

Other than their obnoxious wave that flag fans, this team flew under the radar all year and competed in a really tough division. They know when and how to play their kids and their veterans, Wedge has a handle on the bullpen and they equaled our win total. If they win, they deserve it. Period. Toto does not deviate. He never has. It's our doom. He should have could have would have started Beckett and Kielty and Ellsbury. Didn't. I'm as pissed as anyone, but we have no control over the obvious. And, I'm not being paid to manage a major league baseball team or be it's GM (and thank god for that) because I would have made major gaffes over the years. Although I do admit I called the Nomar trade w/ great glee. And the Roberts acquisition. Come to think of it...back in the day I was against Bagwell and thought they should give up Cooper. Nevermind...clearly I should be the GM. And a doctor.

[a700hitter]

So why is it fair to discount Crisp's defense?

 

 

 

This all you got? Do you realize how good 8 defensive win shares is?

How many wins would he get for us if he hit .300 and scored 100 runs? I don't know how that defensive win share thing works, but does it count his arm against him and all the extra bases taken by runners that eventually score?

[Taliesin]

How many wins would he get for us if he hit .300 and scored 100 runs? I don't know how that defensive win share thing works' date=' but does it count his arm against him and all the extra bases taken by runners that eventually score?[/quote']

 

coco is a late inning defensive replacement player. 9th inning up by a few runs. Abject disappointment to say the least...and yet....Johnny Damon has a haircut and a some more dollars in his pocket and will be an afterthought in a few years. Or now.

 

I would have rather have had him on our side. He chose otherwise. Or Boras did.

 

Ya move on and the future is now. We have a kid who could be a superstar for years to come languishing on the bench. You coddle the young pitchers (hello Dusty Baker) you play the play makers.

[TheKilo]

How many wins would he get for us if he hit .300 and scored 100 runs? I don't know how that defensive win share thing works' date=' but does it count his arm against him and all the extra bases taken by runners that eventually score?[/quote']

 

DAMON DIDN'T HIT .300 AND DIDN'T SCORE 100 RUNS.

 

What is your point???? He can't play CF anymore. Do you want him taking ABs over Manny?

[TedWilliams101]

We have a CF, his name I Jacoby Ellsbury. We have a 4OF, his name is Coco Crisp. What we need is a RF.

[TheKilo]

We have a CF' date=' his name I Jacoby Ellsbury. We have a 4OF, his name is Coco Crisp. What we need is a RF.[/quote']

 

Who would you have signed last year to play right field?

[TedWilliams101]

Anyone not named JD Drew.

[Cocos Disciples]

Don't say Trot Nixon...

[ORS]

You get the feeling that Cleveland is destined. The bug game' date=' the non-error by Youkilis, the sure double play ball that Wakefield deflected....[/quote']

When you have two evenly matched team like in your series and this one against the Tribe, sometimes that's the difference maker. A good bounce here, a good bounce there, and it's a different series. There are the two balls off Ass-Dribble's bat you mentioned, Youk's rope in the 9th of game 2 that was within Sizemore's range, Papi getting hit by a ball in play on the basepaths, Lowell's just foul HR in game 3, Lofton's HR having the extra 6" it needed to avoid Drew's glove. It's a game that turns on small amounts of variation.

 

Right now, it's not looking like it was meant to be for us. So be it, nothing we fans can do to change it.

[ORS]

That said, you can see a substantial difference between their lineup and ours, and theirs is better suited to win in the playoffs. We have a deadlier heart of the order, but everyone contributes for them. Our 3-5 won't see a good pitch to hit if anyone is on base the rest of the series. Won't happen. Nobody is afraid of Drew and the pack of suck that follows him.

[YAZMAN]

Game of inches folks, starting with Blake's play on Pedroia on the first pitch. The line drives that were smoked at the outfielders, the DP balls we hit, the one off Wake's glove that created the big inning, the two strike homer off Delcarmen that bounced off the top of the fence, the blooper by Blake that added insult to injury. Given all that, it almost makes sense that the Sox lineup would be scoreless over nine innings sandwiched around an improbable 3 consecutive homers.

 

Did some guys come up short? Sure, but isn't that all magnified in a game and series you're falling dangerously behind in? I give the Guardians credit, they're playing ridiculously solid and have done nothing less than capitalize on the things that have gone their way.

[a700hitter]

DAMON DIDN'T HIT .300 AND DIDN'T SCORE 100 RUNS.

 

What is your point???? He can't play CF anymore. Do you want him taking ABs over Manny?

You are the one that keeps bringing up Damon. I said that Crisp was a poor replacement for Damon. I didn't say Damon could still play. When we had Damon, he was an offensive catalyst. Crisp, his replacement, is not. I am not saying that Damon can still play, nor am I saying that Damon is not overpaid. I am saying that Crisp is not a full time starting CF. He's a 4th OF and pinch runner. You don't need to sign 4th OFs to long term contracts. They are roster fillers, not long term commitments. He's not what the FO thought he would be. They thought he was a budding talent. He is not. That was poor judgment. What's your point? Are you saying that he helps the team offensively? This is not a comparison to Damon. It's an evaluation of Crisp.