Catch-All Trade Deadline Speculation Thread

[pats55sox45]

In a way' date=' Wily Mo kind of reminds me of Pedro Cerrano from "Major League". He can crush fastballs 500 feet, but has some terrible swings at breaking balls and no plate discipline.[/quote']

 

that seems like a pretty fair analogy

although cerrano was at least decent on defense

[pats55sox45]

Teixiera is a young, switch hitting, gold glove, 1b who hits for power and average. You guys arent getting bargain basement pricing on him, especially this trading deadline since he is under contract for one more season.

 

WMP is a throw in these days. The sox cannot seem to GIVE him away, and I have said before that he Rangers already have WMP in Nelson Cruz. WMP wont be part of the package simply because the Rangers dont need nor want him.

 

The Rangers are going to want pitching. Youkilis would be a useful commodity as well, but if you were to get 1.5 yrs of Tex, you are gonna have to give up pitching and lots of it. I know the sox wont part with Buchholz and I find it hard to believe that the Rangers would want another wild lefty in Lester (the cancer doesnt help his stock either). So Bowden would be an absolute necessity.

 

I think any deal will be 4 parts.

 

Youk or Ellsbury

Bowden

X

X

 

The arent going to want a half season of Lowell, so stop right there on moving Lowell. If the sox dont want to part with Youkilis, they will have to part with Ellsbury

 

As I said before, Bowden is a necessity

 

In terms of the other 2 spots, I think both would need to be pitchers. One spot would be Cox vs Hansen since both have this high upside pen arm quality while they are both getting the s*** kicked out of them in the minors.

 

And the final spot would be a pitcher as well, this time a starter. Kris Johnson, Justin Masterson, or Daniel Bard.

 

So overall...

 

Youk or Ellsbury

Bowden

Cox or Hansen

Johnson, Bard or Masterson

 

that would get it done right now. If you wait until next yr's deadline, it may be cheaper.

 

my idea in its own thread on here was to involve a third team to give lowell to, so we wouldn't hafta give up as much

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/07/sox_scouting_ve.html

 

Sox/Dodgers trade?

 

Sox scouting Vegas

By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff

Red Sox special assistant Allard Baird has been scouting the Las Vegas 51s, the Los Angeles Dodgers Triple-A affiliate. Baird was recently in Tacoma watching the 51s which are a talented team.

 

The Sox have always liked third baseman Andy LaRoche, a strong right-handed hitter who is hitting .302 with 12 homers and 35 RBIs after a stint up with the Dodgers earlier this season.

 

The Dodgers have been looking for relief help.

[redsoxrules]

f*** no

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

f*** no

 

Whats wrong with Andy LaRoche?

 

I think of the Sox interest in the Dodgers farm as being part of a 3-way deal. The Dodgers have James Loney at 1st so I have a hard time seeing there interest in Teixeira. However the Red Sox could spin relief help to the Dodgers (Hansen, Delcarmen, other prospects, who knows) for Andy LaRoche who would be part of a LaRoche and (Ellsbury, Bowden, Youkilis, etc etc) for Teixeira. Maybe thats far fetched.

[redsoxrules]

Whats wrong with Andy LaRoche?

 

I think of the Sox interest in the Dodgers farm as being part of a 3-way deal. The Dodgers have James Loney at 1st so I have a hard time seeing there interest in Teixeira. However the Red Sox could spin relief help to the Dodgers (Hansen, Delcarmen, other prospects, who knows) for Andy LaRoche who would be part of a LaRoche and (Ellsbury, Bowden, Youkilis, etc etc) for Teixeira. Maybe thats far fetched.

 

we dont need a 3rd baseman and we dont need to screw our bulpen up

[schillingouttheks]

Agreed. Andy LaRoche would be nice to have, but I'm not willing to break up our bullpen. I'd trade Hansen or any younger arms for him (including Bard), but Delcarmen is a key piece of our bullpen now.

[ksushi]

I think I smell a three team trade of some kind happening here... Hansen for LaRoche? Lowell to Minnesota, Prospects to Texas along with Ellsbury, Bowden and WMP. LaRoche and Texiera to Boston. LaRoche could very much improve our bench.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I think I smell a three team trade of some kind happening here... Hansen for LaRoche? Lowell to Minnesota' date=' Prospects to Texas along with Ellsbury, Bowden and WMP. LaRoche and Texiera to Boston. LaRoche could very much improve our bench.[/quote']

 

Or LaRoche might be shipped to another team in the 3-team deal.

 

Thats what I'm getting at

[riverside sluggers]

we dont need a 3rd baseman and we dont need to screw our bulpen up

 

Who's to say that the relief would be coming from the Boston's corps? It could very well be from their minor leagues

[redsoxrules]

Who's to say that the relief would be coming from the Boston's corps? It could very well be from their minor leagues

 

the dodgers are looking for releif help, their not gona look in the minor leagues

[example1]

we dont need a 3rd baseman and we dont need to screw our bulpen up

 

Yeah, who wants one of the top 25 prospects in baseball (as rated in the BA Prospect Handbook, 2007), and the Dodgers top prospect (same source)?

 

This team certainly couldn't use him since we have an aging, expensive and traditionally bad 2nd half player at 3B now. He would be the Sox top offensive prospect immediately.

 

Trade bullpen help for him. YES. Do it.

 

Would you trade Julian Tavarez for Jacoby Ellsbury? I sure as hell would. I would probably move Delcarman, though he is an important piece to this season--it seems--it would be a move for the future.

[redsoxrules]

Yeah, who wants one of the top 25 prospects in baseball (as rated in the BA Prospect Handbook, 2007), and the Dodgers top prospect (same source)?

 

This team certainly couldn't use him since we have an aging, expensive and traditionally bad 2nd half player at 3B now. He would be the Sox top offensive prospect immediately.

 

Trade bullpen help for him. YES. Do it.

 

Would you trade Julian Tavarez for Jacoby Ellsbury? I sure as hell would. I would probably move Delcarman, though he is an important piece to this season--it seems--it would be a move for the future.

 

were looking to win the world series here , and laroche isnt the answer

[jacksonianmarch]

Now, one deal being discussed right now is between the Braves and Rangers. Salty, who is essentially a young Tex, plus Elvis Andrus who is a solid middle infield prospect would likely headline a package for Tex. I could see that since Salty could replace Tex.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Could this possibly be a prospect for a prospect scenario???

 

Since Coco Crisp has come on with his bat and played incredible defense...perhaps the Red Sox feel they don't have a spot for Jacoby Ellsbury. Juan Pierre certainly isn't the long term solution for the Dodgers just as Mike Lowell isn't our long term solution.

 

Jacoby Ellsbury for Andy LaRoche?

 

LaRoche could technically jump right up to the major league team and replace Wily Mo Pena as the right handed bat we need. Not to mention he can spell Lowell and Youkilis.

[jacksonianmarch]

you want to take a hot prospect and relegate him to Hinske duty?

[example1]

were looking to win the world series here ' date=' and laroche isnt the answer[/quote']

 

What do you mean? Why isn't he the answer? He has as much potential in any particular situation as Hinske does, and certainly a lifetime of production after that.

 

I don't get you man. The whole point is to make your team better. The FO knows that they can do things to put themselves in a position to win the WS, but baseball is a fickle game and the best team does not always win. Their number 1 goal is to be viable year after year. Their number 2 goal is to be able to make a WS push if necessary.

 

I think that without knowing what the proposal is you are jumping the gun a bit on a 'don't need him' approach. Who doesn't need a guy like LaRoche. The Dodgers have a good system, so to be their best prospect is pretty impressive.

 

It's a rumor, no big deal. I think if the sox can get a guy like LaRoche for bullpen help not named Papelbon, Okajima or Delcarmen then they should do it.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

you want to take a hot prospect and relegate him to Hinske duty?

 

If it helps us get more production off the bench and helps us on our way to a possible World Series.....well yes. I could assume he would get plenty of playing time....our bench players see a fair amount of games.

[example1]

you want to take a hot prospect and relegate him to Hinske duty?

 

For a season until Lowell moves on. The Sox would save the 8 million that Lowell would ask for and have this year's version of Andy Marte in the wings.

 

The point is that, as mentioned above, there is likely something in place involving either Youkilis or Lowell. Probably Lowell, as LaRoche is a 3B.

[ksushi]

LaRoche for Ellsbury? That might be a really good trade... I'd be kinda happy if we did that.

[jacksonianmarch]

LaRoche for Ellsbury? That might be a really good trade... I'd be kinda happy if we did that.

 

it may take more. LaRoche is a legit middle of the order hitter. Ellsbury is a top of the order guy who will not hit for power unless he pries the lock off Giambi's locker. I would assume that a middle of the order bat is more important, but that may be just me.

 

Also, for consideration purposes...

 

The Dodgers have Pierre signed for 4 more yrs.

The Dodgers have Matt Kemp

The Dodgers have Andre Ethier

 

Ellsbury doesnt have the potential of either of the final 2, and Loney occupies 1b, so you cannot convert them. I dont think they will be a solid trading partner.

[riverside sluggers]

I dont think they will be a solid trading partner.

 

Yes we know Jacko, beacuse the Sox farm is crap

[CrespoBlows]

Yes we know Jacko' date=' beacuse the Sox farm is crap [/quote']

 

Also, for consideration purposes...

 

The Dodgers have Pierre signed for 4 more yrs.

The Dodgers have Matt Kemp

The Dodgers have Andre Ethier

 

Read the whole thing for once.

[riverside sluggers]

For a season until Lowell moves on. The Sox would save the 8 million that Lowell would ask for and have this year's version of Andy Marte in the wings.

 

The point is that, as mentioned above, there is likely something in place involving either Youkilis or Lowell. Probably Lowell, as LaRoche is a 3B.

 

Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus, speculates mind you, a Wily Mo for LaRoche deal. Damn I do that 10 times out fo 10

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6499

[BSN07]

Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus' date=' [i']speculates[/i] mind you, a Wily Mo for LaRoche deal. Damn I do that 10 times out fo 10

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6499

 

That might be the all time steal ever.

[ksushi]

Watch him have a clause in his contract that inflates his salary to 30 million per year if ever traded for Wily Mo.

 

I would ask for that.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus' date=' [i']speculates[/i] mind you, a Wily Mo for LaRoche deal. Damn I do that 10 times out fo 10

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6499

 

Both Wily Mo Pena and Andy LaRoche have 25-30 HR potential. They are about the same age with the major difference being Pena has much more experience at the MLB level. I would say LaRoche looks more like a .300 hitter where Pena is more of a .250 hitter. I do know Pena is a disaster in the outfield so that could be the big deciding factor. Unless of course LaRoche is nothing special on the defensive side as well (not sure if anyone knows).

[schillingouttheks]

Pena's an average defensive centerfielder.

[example1]

So, with the way things look now the Sox aren't likely to make any significant moves at the deadline. Numerous reports suggest the Sox won't meet TX requirements for Teixeira--which were said to be two of Lester, Buchholz and Ellsbury.

 

It is different from my tune last week, but I feel like this team is in pretty good shape overall. The problem last year was a number of poorly timed injuries before the trading deadline, and then trying to coast with the injured team into the playoffs. Without any momentum or pitching they got beaten around.

 

This team is different.

 

--Lowell and Youkilis contribute in every facet of the game. Neither of them is Teixeira, but they are both reasonable alternatives on both sides of the ball.

--Lugo is hitting again, and Pedroia is going to be pesky whenever he's at the plate, and is an excellent fielder.

--Varitek is having what MUST be called a successful season, one that most people here haven't mentioned. He is 5th among all MLB catchers in OPS (4th in OBP)(1st in P/PA). This being the 3rd year of a deal in which most people thought he would be nearly ineffective at this point in his career. Not only has he managed to produce at the plate, but he is having a great season defensively and with pitch-calling. Add to that his need to foster the development of Dice-K and Okajima, Delcarmen, Papelbon, while providing the backstop for a largely revamped and DOMINANT bullpen.

--Crisp's progress has been fun to watch, and barring injury I see no reason he won't keep doing this. If he gets injured there are OF alternatives who are in the middle of good seasons (including Brandon Moss, who has yet to get a shot) and Ellsbury--if he can get healthy--has at least been exposed to Fenway if needed.

 

The bullpen has been absolutely dominant, way beyond my wildest expectations. Ultimately, the biggest acquisitions of the free agent season may be Manny Ramirez's power coming off the DL and Schilling returning healthy.

 

The best idea might be to try and trade a guy like Tavarez or WMP to get either bullpen or minor league talent. The more minor league talent a team has the easier it is to get the key piece next season and the year after if they lack it. This team doesn't lack any key pieces enough to warrant trading away 2 of the top 3.

[riverside sluggers]

Right now Im thinking the only deal will be dealing off Wily Mo and trading for a new backup OF... if they make anything happen that is

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/07/27/the_price_isnt_right_for_gms/

The Sox continue to be a brick wall in front of their top prospects, even in deals with power hitters like Mark Texeira and Adam Dunn

 

The Texas Rangers asked for Clay Bucholz, Jacoby Ellsbury and a 3rd player. That 3rd player might be Jon Lester. No surprise but the D-Rays asked for the moon for Ty Wigginton--- Manny Delcarmen, and Justin Masterson