Catch-All Trade Deadline Speculation Thread

[CrespoBlows]

What does everyone think about moving to a four man rotation?

[redsoxrules]

What does everyone think about moving to a four man rotation?

 

with the 4 being?

[CrespoBlows]

with the 4 being?

 

Dice-K, Beckett, Wakefield, Gabbard/Tavarez. (Eventually Schilling)

 

We could switch to a five in September if Buchholz is ready.

 

The four man rotation would depend on Francona's ability to remove starters at the 100-110 pitch count.

[castigs850]

i wouldnt mind if it werent for that fact that shilling can hardly make it two months in a full 5 man rotation before losing it and needing a break

[CrespoBlows]

i wouldnt mind if it werent for that fact that shilling can hardly make it two months in a full 5 man rotation before losing it and needing a break

 

Correct use of a pitcher can't prevent injuries all the time, but it can significantly reduce the chances of that happening. Schilling would probably need to be capped at 100 pitches.

[jacksonianmarch]

What does everyone think about moving to a four man rotation?

 

not a good idea considering you have Beckett and his recent history of arm/hand troubles, DiceK who is in his first season of pitching every 5 days, and then a rookie in the rotation all at the same time. If you had older horses, then maybe.

[example1]

not a good idea considering you have Beckett and his recent history of arm/hand troubles' date=' DiceK who is in his first season of pitching every 5 days, and then a rookie in the rotation all at the same time. If you had older horses, then maybe.[/quote']

 

a 4 man rotation would be a desperation move with little wiggle room for injuries.

 

I don't know... it's too early to go on the 4 man train.

 

EDIT: So, this is the type of stuff we end up talking about while the Sox are being "aggressive" on the market but there are absolutely NO leaks. I appreciate Theo's desire to keep things mum, but throw us a freaking bone!

[Cocos Disciples]

The Red Sox were apparently close to a deal for Kielty, a 31 year-old switch-hitting extra outfielder. He hasn't played much center since '02, so maybe the Sox have relaxed that requirement. Kielty was supposed to be moved in a three-team deal that would have sent Wily Mo Pena somewhere. The deal has stalled, but it's really starting to look like Pena is on the move.

Per Tim Brown (Yahoo.com)

[castigs850]

Correct use of a pitcher can't prevent injuries all the time' date=' but it can significantly reduce the chances of that happening. Schilling would probably need to be capped at 100 pitches.[/quote']

 

even with a 100 pitch pitch count Curt would be spent after 4 starts in a 4 man rotation. Not necessarily injury but just fatigue in general

[ORS]

I'm surprised nobody picked this up yet. Commence the circle jerk......

 

I have heard from an industry source that the Red Sox are closing in on Teixeira. The price is high...one Red Sox starter, one major league reserve and one minor league pitcher with a big upside. You have to give quality to get quality. I have sent an e-mail to him asking if it is ok for me to mention the specific names.......

 

Added later

One everyday player who starts, one everyday player who is a reserve and one minor league pitcher not named Clay.

 

link

 

My guess is that the everyday starter is Youk, who sat tonight, the bench player is WMP, hence the Kielty rumor, and the MiLB pitcher is Bowden. Who's onboard?

[CrespoBlows]

I want to, but I'll be unhappy when I have to clean that s*** up, when that's exposed as a fabricated rumor.

[redsoxrules]

I'm surprised nobody picked this up yet. Commence the circle jerk......

 

 

 

link

 

My guess is that the everyday starter is Youk, who sat tonight, the bench player is WMP, hence the Kielty rumor, and the MiLB pitcher is Bowden. Who's onboard?

 

i saw that too on the espn message board.....id do that trade in a minute

[Cocos Disciples]

I looked at the ESPN Message Board around this time last year, and not one of the "nearly completed" trades were done. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

EDIT: But anyways, here's my thoughts. Everybody loves Youk. I love Youk. But I'd deal him 10 times out of 10 if it gets us Teixiera. Youkilis isn't going to be a superstar in this league, but he has the ability to be a solid player (much more valuable as a 3B though). Pena has a lot of potential, but even if he does meet it, there's really no room for him with Ramirez through 08, Crisp/Ellsbury for the longterm future, and Drew through '11. Bowden is a very good pitching prospect, but you give him up for Teixiera. I love the deal if we keep Ellsbury AND Buchholz.

[schillingouttheks]

Do they need a ride to Logan? I'll help out...

[CrespoBlows]

I'd trade Ellsbury, if we could keep Bowden.

[redsoxrules]

Do they need a ride to Logan? I'll help out...

 

same here , il be at logan tomorrow night

[example1]

I'm surprised nobody picked this up yet. Commence the circle jerk......

 

 

 

link

 

My guess is that the everyday starter is Youk, who sat tonight, the bench player is WMP, hence the Kielty rumor, and the MiLB pitcher is Bowden. Who's onboard?

 

Alright ORS. I saw this posted as well. Not sure what to think.

[example1]

I think it is a legitimate rumor. We know Teixiera is available. We know the Sox like his OBP and power skills. We know he is a gold-glover. It's a rumor, but the type of rumor that is worth talking about. It makes a hell of a lot more sense than an aggressive push for Jermaine Dye based on a lack of confidence in Drew.

 

The sox have the pieces to make this happen. My guess is that the rangers would want:

Youkilis, WMP, Lester/Bowden. I would like the Sox to increase the size of the package and somehow land either Gagne or Otsuka. It's asking a lot, but when at the market pick up extra supplies, right?

 

We all know the Sox are looking toward the future in terms of power. They know that regardless of whether manny comes around this year power-wise or not, they will need to replace his and Papi's power in the future. I consider Teixiera one of the premier power bats in baseball. The guy is a monster at the plate, but he's a good hitter with a good eye. he went 43HR /144 RBI two years ago. He just turned 27. Whatever it takes, get this guy.

 

Sox fans rightfully love Youkilis. He is a great player with a lot of value. That's why he has to go. It's not because he's less valuable--as a700 would have you believe--but because he is the type of player that is an example of how to hit for other players on the team, a guy who makes pitchers throw and works the count. He's a good hitter. If the Sox could deal Lowell I bet they would. But Texas will want Youkilis and the Sox will (hopefully) be able to pull the trigger.

 

This would be one BOLD muthafukin' move by Theo and would start to give us a new direction to build around for the next few years. Teixiera is one hell of a ball player. Over the last three years he has an OPS of .920 and .930 from the left and right side respectively. I would love the idea of Beckett and Teixiera as stars on this team for the future.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'd trade Ellsbury' date=' if we could keep Bowden.[/quote']

 

To be honest, I don't know much about Bowden. But after a glimpse of Ellsbury, it'd be hard letting that go. I think if we kept him he could be great for us.

[msubulldogs21]

This would be one BOLD muthafukin' move by Theo and would start to give us a new direction to build around for the next few years. Teixiera is one hell of a ball player. Over the last three years he has an OPS of .920 and .930 from the left and right side respectively. I would love the idea of Beckett and Teixiera as stars on this team for the future.

 

Getting Teixiera would be great. But if we do, I sure hope we don't lose him to free agency. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's a free agent after 08 right? If we aquire him hopefully we will committ to him being a guy to build around for the future and sign him to a long term deal. He will command a lot, but is worth the cash.

[riverside sluggers]

msu, I sure as hell would expect Theo not to sit idle (like he did with Beckett) to not let him hit free agency

 

This trade would kind of be essence of the Nomar trade. A fan favorite starter is traded mid season for in turn would be a big boost to this team. bah I could only dream to look ahead of an infield of Texeira, Pedroia, Lugo, Arod

[Cocos Disciples]

Texeira' date=' Pedroia, Lugo, Arod[/quote']

 

:D :D

[jacksonianmarch]

Teixiera is a young, switch hitting, gold glove, 1b who hits for power and average. You guys arent getting bargain basement pricing on him, especially this trading deadline since he is under contract for one more season.

 

WMP is a throw in these days. The sox cannot seem to GIVE him away, and I have said before that he Rangers already have WMP in Nelson Cruz. WMP wont be part of the package simply because the Rangers dont need nor want him.

 

The Rangers are going to want pitching. Youkilis would be a useful commodity as well, but if you were to get 1.5 yrs of Tex, you are gonna have to give up pitching and lots of it. I know the sox wont part with Buchholz and I find it hard to believe that the Rangers would want another wild lefty in Lester (the cancer doesnt help his stock either). So Bowden would be an absolute necessity.

 

I think any deal will be 4 parts.

 

Youk or Ellsbury

Bowden

X

X

 

The arent going to want a half season of Lowell, so stop right there on moving Lowell. If the sox dont want to part with Youkilis, they will have to part with Ellsbury

 

As I said before, Bowden is a necessity

 

In terms of the other 2 spots, I think both would need to be pitchers. One spot would be Cox vs Hansen since both have this high upside pen arm quality while they are both getting the s*** kicked out of them in the minors.

 

And the final spot would be a pitcher as well, this time a starter. Kris Johnson, Justin Masterson, or Daniel Bard.

 

So overall...

 

Youk or Ellsbury

Bowden

Cox or Hansen

Johnson, Bard or Masterson

 

that would get it done right now. If you wait until next yr's deadline, it may be cheaper.

[example1]

Teixiera is a young, switch hitting, gold glove, 1b who hits for power and average. You guys arent getting bargain basement pricing on him, especially this trading deadline since he is under contract for one more season.

 

WMP is a throw in these days. The sox cannot seem to GIVE him away, and I have said before that he Rangers already have WMP in Nelson Cruz. WMP wont be part of the package simply because the Rangers dont need nor want him.

 

The Rangers are going to want pitching. Youkilis would be a useful commodity as well, but if you were to get 1.5 yrs of Tex, you are gonna have to give up pitching and lots of it. I know the sox wont part with Buchholz and I find it hard to believe that the Rangers would want another wild lefty in Lester (the cancer doesnt help his stock either). So Bowden would be an absolute necessity.

 

I think any deal will be 4 parts.

 

Youk or Ellsbury

Bowden

X

X

 

The arent going to want a half season of Lowell, so stop right there on moving Lowell. If the sox dont want to part with Youkilis, they will have to part with Ellsbury

 

As I said before, Bowden is a necessity

 

In terms of the other 2 spots, I think both would need to be pitchers. One spot would be Cox vs Hansen since both have this high upside pen arm quality while they are both getting the s*** kicked out of them in the minors.

 

And the final spot would be a pitcher as well, this time a starter. Kris Johnson, Justin Masterson, or Daniel Bard.

 

So overall...

 

Youk or Ellsbury

Bowden

Cox or Hansen

Johnson, Bard or Masterson

 

that would get it done right now. If you wait until next yr's deadline, it may be cheaper.

 

I'm still pretty sure it would be something like Youkilis, Bowden/Lester, WMP, plus one other player.

 

I think Texas will (and should) want Lester, as he is more developed and could potentially add to their team this year. Despite your talking about WMP as a "throw in" he is certainly an intreguing throw in with the potential to hit 25 hr (he averages that per 162 games). He's a very similar player to Marcus Thames. They share 25+ HR power, lots of K's, low average, .311 OBPs, high .400s SLGs. I think if the Tigers made a deal they would be okay with dealing Thames but also that another team would find him useful.

 

All this talk of WMP being a worthless pile of garbage we WANT to get rid of is absurd. I can think of a few roster spots on the Yankees that he could take, and which the Yankees would certainly give to him. I can think of a lot of teams that wouldn't mind having a player who can play all three OF positions and hit the ball like WMP does. He simply needs regular at bats to see what he can do. 127 is simply not enough, but last year he had an .840 OPS when given playing time. Not bad for a guy who people would happily drop from this team. He's trade bait for a reason.

[CrespoBlows]

To be honest' date=' I don't know much about Bowden. But after a glimpse of Ellsbury, it'd be hard letting that go. I think if we kept him he could be great for us.[/quote']

 

I don't see him being anything more than an empty .300 hitter with OK patience. I don't know how good his glove is, but with the way Coco Crisp is playing in CF, you can't bench him.

[ksushi]

I'm still pretty sure it would be something like Youkilis, Bowden/Lester, WMP, plus one other player.

 

I think Texas will (and should) want Lester, as he is more developed and could potentially add to their team this year. Despite your talking about WMP as a "throw in" he is certainly an intreguing throw in with the potential to hit 25 hr (he averages that per 162 games). He's a very similar player to Marcus Thames. They share 25+ HR power, lots of K's, low average, .311 OBPs, high .400s SLGs. I think if the Tigers made a deal they would be okay with dealing Thames but also that another team would find him useful.

 

All this talk of WMP being a worthless pile of garbage we WANT to get rid of is absurd. I can think of a few roster spots on the Yankees that he could take, and which the Yankees would certainly give to him. I can think of a lot of teams that wouldn't mind having a player who can play all three OF positions and hit the ball like WMP does. He simply needs regular at bats to see what he can do. 127 is simply not enough, but last year he had an .840 OPS when given playing time. Not bad for a guy who people would happily drop from this team. He's trade bait for a reason.

 

 

The problem with WMP isn't his talent. In 2004, he hit like 25 HR's in 300 AB's. He obviously has monster talent. Talent isn't everything though. The major league success has as much to do with making adjustments as it does raw skill. Pena can't do that. He can succeed in certain situations where he has to be thrown a fastball, and against pitchers who really don't have much other than gas, but his AB's are embarrassingly bad. It looks like he has the memory of a goldfish and just forgets the pitch before and just keeps looking for the same thing. He can be setup easily and breaking balls are a totally new concept to this guy.

 

He needs consistent playing time because he needs to develop his ability to get in good AB's. Problem is, he is 26, and for a guy with nothing more than raw talent he is pretty old. He has no options and no value because he can't learn in a starting job for a major league team with any dignity and has zero value as a bench player.

 

I think we should just send him to AAA through waivers and if someone claims him, someone claims him.

[ORS]

Teixiera is a young' date=' switch hitting, gold glove, 1b who hits for power and average. You guys arent getting bargain basement pricing on him, especially this trading deadline since he is under contract for one more season. [/quote']

We all know what Teixeira is, so save us the mental masturbation. That information is from a credible poster who visits this board and is not proned to flights of fancy. Besides, you need to be right about something a couple of times before I remove the grain of salt required for your posts.

[msubulldogs21]

He can be setup easily and breaking balls are a totally new concept to this guy.

 

In a way, Wily Mo kind of reminds me of Pedro Cerrano from "Major League". He can crush fastballs 500 feet, but has some terrible swings at breaking balls and no plate discipline.

[example1]

Nothing new, but it is an argument that some of us have been making here for awhile...

 

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Sox+Beat%3A+Sox+can't+win+numbers+game&articleId=f0456642-feb6-4492-bdba-e0f4ff3448d4

 

 

"The Sox can turn to the recent ensemble of World Series winners. The 2006 Cardinals went 25-36 down the stretch. The 2005 White Sox endured a 23-25 spell. The 2004 Red Sox withstood a 28-31 spell that ran from May into July. The 2003 Marlins started the season with a 19-29 record.

 

"No team is going to stay hot (all year)," said White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen. "We went wire-to-wire (in first place in 2005), but we weren't hot all the way long. We had some ups and downs. Everyone in baseball is like that."

 

"Most teams that win 100 or more games go through a stretch of 40 or more games when they play below .500. In fact, the last four world champions have," agreed Epstein. "It's a common characteristic of a really good team to play a stretch of over a month below .500. It's hard to avoid, and hopefully this is our stretch, and we find our way out of it."

 

Basically, they're scoring more and giving up less than most of the teams they play. THey have just been unlucky.

[Rdsxmbnt]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/07/22/special_assignment_scouts/?page=1

 

The Sox haven't been willing to trade Clay Buchholz or Jacoby Ellsbury, two names they've heard often from the White Sox, Rangers, and Braves in discussions for lefthander Mark Buehrle (who ended up re-signing with Chicago), Teixeira, and catcher-first baseman Jarrod Saltalamacchia, respectively.