Catch-All Trade Deadline Speculation Thread

[example1]

Jesus. I just don't know what to do with this team. I think they are about a year away from their top prospects being extremely productive and I think that two of them (Ellsbury and Buchholz) will contribute down the stretch. I also think this team appears to be one or two pieces away from something very special. I'm not sure where that piece should be. It feels like it should be in the batting order, but who moves? The only answers I can think of are Crisp and Lowell. Drew is powerless right now, and I can't imagine where the power would come from. His swing seems very on-base-centric, rather than slug-centric.

 

Just some thoughts:

 

Should the Sox overpay a team like Atlanta to get Andruw Jones as a short-term rental? Is it worth it when they are in a position to be able to go to the playoffs and potentially win it all? I would think that it is. Jones has had a down year, but he has shown signs of life and would at least be a power threat.

 

Should the Sox offer some really complex package involving Manny Ramirez, who is both affordable and short term? How about a deal with Texas to bring Teixeira to Boston and send Manny to Texas? Anaheim (plus money) for Brandon Wood--who has been struggling--and Ervin Santana--who has REALLY been struggling?

 

I don't know, but something needs to happen.

[msubulldogs21]

Just some thoughts:

 

Should the Sox overpay a team like Atlanta to get Andruw Jones as a short-term rental? Is it worth it when they are in a position to be able to go to the playoffs and potentially win it all? I would think that it is. Jones has had a down year, but he has shown signs of life and would at least be a power threat.

 

Should the Sox offer some really complex package involving Manny Ramirez, who is both affordable and short term? How about a deal with Texas to bring Teixeira to Boston and send Manny to Texas? Anaheim (plus money) for Brandon Wood--who has been struggling--and Ervin Santana--who has REALLY been struggling?

 

I don't know, but something needs to happen.

 

I would definitely not be in favor of aquiring a rent-a-player like Andruw Jones. Although he would supply some power, he's only batting .211 and strikes out way too much. I'm not really a big fan of the whole rent-a-player thing in the first place, but if we did do that I would go after Torii Hunter because I don't see any way Minnesota brings him back next year.

 

Maybe we could get back in trade talks with Colorado involving Helton/Lowell. Who knows. But you're right, we need to do SOMETHING. It's just hard to figure out what that something is.

[example1]

I would definitely not be in favor of aquiring a rent-a-player like Andruw Jones. Although he would supply some power, he's only batting .211 and strikes out way too much. I'm not really a big fan of the whole rent-a-player thing in the first place, but if we did do that I would go after Torii Hunter because I don't see any way Minnesota brings him back next year.

 

Maybe we could get back in trade talks with Colorado involving Helton/Lowell. Who knows. But you're right, we need to do SOMETHING. It's just hard to figure out what that something is.

 

He's on pace for 31 HR and 107 RBI. He's hitting .211, with a decent .312 OBP (decent only because its .100 points higher than his avg.). He will get better, but at that pace he will out-produce Manny.

 

Youkilis

Pedroia

Ortiz

Manny

Jones

Drew

Lowell

Varitek

Lugo

 

I don't know... nobody will mind a short-term rental if it helps the Sox win a WS, and I think it is worth noting that short term rentals pushed this team over the top in 04. If we are hoping for a trade to put this team over the top, we may have to settle for a this year solution, particularly if we hope to hold onto our top talent.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox DONT NEED ANOTHER BAT. Their offense isnt amazing like it used to be, but it is more than enough to win. It is the pitching. If Schilling comes back as the shitbag he was before he hit the DL, then the sox rotation is 2 deep going into what could be a dogfight for the division or going into a playoff series. And that wont win. And unfortunately for you guys, Schilling wont be returning until the trading deadline, so Theo MUST prepare as if Schilling will come back s*****. So if you want to overpay, overpay for Buehrle (if available) or another pitcher, because the Gabbard's and Tavarez's of the world will cost you.

[redsoxrules]

The sox DONT NEED ANOTHER BAT. Their offense isnt amazing like it used to be' date=' but it is more than enough to win. It is the pitching. If Schilling comes back as the shitbag he was before he hit the DL, then the sox rotation is 2 deep going into what could be a dogfight for the division or going into a playoff series. And that wont win. And unfortunately for you guys, Schilling wont be returning until the trading deadline, so Theo MUST prepare as if Schilling will come back s*****. So if you want to overpay, overpay for Buehrle (if available) or another pitcher, because the Gabbard's and Tavarez's of the world will cost you.[/quote']

 

YES THEY NEED ANOTHER BAT THE SOX OFFENSE ONLY MANAGED 4.1 RUNS A GAME IN JUNE

 

THE PTICHING HAD A 3.83 ERA IN JUNE AND HAVE 4.02 IN JULY

[example1]

The sox DONT NEED ANOTHER BAT. Their offense isnt amazing like it used to be' date=' but it is more than enough to win. It is the pitching. If Schilling comes back as the shitbag he was before he hit the DL, then the sox rotation is 2 deep going into what could be a dogfight for the division or going into a playoff series. And that wont win. And unfortunately for you guys, Schilling wont be returning until the trading deadline, so Theo MUST prepare as if Schilling will come back s*****. So if you want to overpay, overpay for Buehrle (if available) or another pitcher, because the Gabbard's and Tavarez's of the world will cost you.[/quote']

 

Yeah, man, I just don't agree with you here. If you've watched the games--which I'm pretty sure you have--then you will notice that if the sox just came through when they had opportunities they would have a 20 game lead right now. I'm not even kidding about that number. This team has shown the consistent ability to get on base, but time after time they are not driving in the runs. Manny and Ortiz are somewhat responsible--as their drop in HR and RBI cannot be overlooked--but the rest of the lineup is also to blame. If they were to add another bopper--say a Teixeira--then they would immediately score more runs. This team has a tremendous record when scoring five or more runs (I believe) and they would score 5 or more MUCH more often than they are now. They are one guy away from being able to produce close to what the offense has done the past few years.

 

 

The more I think about it, the more I feel like the answer to our problems might be Youkilis. His value is quite high right now, as he is defensively versatile and manages to not make outs. He doesn't have tremendous power, but he has a tremendous OBP and plus defense.

 

Youkilis, Bowden/Lester, Crisp for Teixeira.

 

If Theo managed to bring Teixeira into this lineup that would be HUGE for the offense the rest of the way. Tex is a gold glove winning 1B, so the loss in defense would be minimal. We all always talk about moving Lowell instead of Youkilis, but we could probably resign Lowell to a decent deal for a couple years (say, 3 years/22m), which would allow us to trade him in the future if someone better comes along, or hold onto him for his solid defense and ability to drive the ball regularly. Lowell certainly isn't a BAD option moving forward, and Teixeira is a definite upgrade over Youkilis (despite how much I like Youk).

 

A move like that would be extremely bold, possibly bolder than the Nomar move of 04. I can see why the Sox are reportedly in hot pursuit of him. Youkilis is a definite fan favorite and a grinder. Teixeira is a 27 year-old, 2 time silver slugger, 2 time gold glove winning switch hitter. 30 Home Runs should be expected from him, as should a .370 OBP.

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Ortiz

Manny

Teixiera

Drew

Lowell

Varitek

Lugo

 

Teixiera could be the best option available for offensive punch. If he and Drew both fired on all cylinders this offense could be dangerous.

[a700hitter]

The sox DONT NEED ANOTHER BAT. Their offense isnt amazing like it used to be' date=' but it is more than enough to win. It is the pitching. If Schilling comes back as the shitbag he was before he hit the DL, then the sox rotation is 2 deep going into what could be a dogfight for the division or going into a playoff series. And that wont win. And unfortunately for you guys, Schilling wont be returning until the trading deadline, so Theo MUST prepare as if Schilling will come back s*****. So if you want to overpay, overpay for Buehrle (if available) or another pitcher, because the Gabbard's and Tavarez's of the world will cost you.[/quote']

I have been saying this all along. Hitting goes into slumps. Even hitting like the Yankees have goes into slumps. Pitching is what wins. Don't be fooled by Gabbard against KC or Wakefields's occoasional good game. Jackson is right. Our starting staff is two pitchers deep, just like last year. Our pen is two pitchers deep which is one more than last year.

[Khan]

Generally, the offense has let the pitching down. If you want to be watching these guys play into Oct. they have got to go get a power bat and improve the bench. Right now the team seams way to complacent, just coasting. I've never been a fan of moving Manny, but maybe there is a way of turning him around for some improved power. I would prefer to see Lugo or Drew go but with those contracts and poor performances, who would have them. Theo has got to do something to provide a spark.

[example1]

I have been saying this all along. Hitting goes into slumps. Even hitting like the Yankees have goes into slumps. Pitching is what wins. Don't be fooled by Gabbard against KC or Wakefields's occoasional good game. Jackson is right. Our starting staff is two pitchers deep' date=' just like last year. Our pen is two pitchers deep which is one more than last year.[/quote']

 

The question, as always, is who is available that would be certain to make an impact. I think Schilling is as good or better in a stretch drive than anyone who is available. If the offense were regularly putting up 6 to 9 runs then pitchers would have a little wiggle room. At this point I watch a game and as soon as they are down by 3+ runs I say to myself "Well, that's that." I'm NEVER that pessimistic, but with this offense I am. There is NO power there. None.

 

I guess I'm leaning more and more toward the idea of moving Youkilis for a true power upgrade at the corner. He's valuable, he's good, he's a fan favorite, but I have NEVEr seen someone extend on a ball like he does and manage to hit weak popups to the opposite field. Teixiera would drive those balls out of the yard.

[a700hitter]

Last year we were lamenting about the #5 hole, so Theo went and got Drew. Where will this additional bat play the field. Everyone here thinks Youk is a god, so that's out of the question. Pedroia's been doing okay with the bat. How much of an offensive upgrade can we expect to get at 3rd this year. Manny is staying. Too much money is invested in Drew to sit him down. That leaves CF and SS. Lugo is finally starting to hit, so we might as well live through his hot streak after suffering through his slump. That leaves CF and a back up catcher, which is difficult because of the knuckleball. I don't see the big openings on this team for a hitter. On the other hand, the 3,4,and 5 holes in the starting rotation are becoming like great gaping chasm where games are sacrificed to the baseball gods. It's the pitching. With the Red Sox it is always the pitching.

[example1]

Last year we were lamenting about the #5 hole' date=' so Theo went and got Drew. Where will this additional bat play the field. Everyone here thinks Youk is a god, so that's out of the question. Pedroia's been doing okay with the bat. How much of an offensive upgrade can we expect to get at 3rd this year. Manny is staying. Too much money is invested in Drew to sit him down. That leaves CF and SS. Lugo is finally starting to hit, so we might as well live through his hot streak after suffering through his slump. That leaves CF and a back up catcher, which is difficult because of the knuckleball. I don't see the big openings on this team for a hitter. On the other hand, the 3,4,and 5 holes in the starting rotation are becoming like great gaping chasm where games are sacrificed to the baseball gods. It's the pitching. With the Red Sox it is always the pitching.[/quote']

 

"Everyone here thinks Youk is a god, so that's out of the question"

 

Sorry man, but when did what everyone here think matter in the slightest to what Theo actually does? seriously. People here like Youkilis. That is a fact. People all over Red Sox Nation love YOukilis because he has the everyman appeal, is a hard worker and wears his heart on his sleeve. He has also proven to be an effective player (much better than you ever believed he would be... for what it's worth... when you referred to him as nothing but an average player). He's not an average player. He's a better than average player.

 

He is not, however, a super star. Nor is he the type of power bat that a team with power outages at SS, 2B, RF and CF can afford to keep if a better option comes along.

 

The supposed power bat scenario I'm talking about involves moving Youkilis and placing that power bat in his defensive position. If it was a 1B other than Teixiera then I would think twice, but given Tex's age, switch hitting, power, and defensive skills, I think I would make that deal in a heartbeat. My guess is that a guy like Youkilis will NOT be off the table when Theo talks to Texas about getting Teixiera. They aren't that stupid.

[a700hitter]

The question, as always, is who is available that would be certain to make an impact. I think Schilling is as good or better in a stretch drive than anyone who is available. If the offense were regularly putting up 6 to 9 runs then pitchers would have a little wiggle room. At this point I watch a game and as soon as they are down by 3+ runs I say to myself "Well, that's that." I'm NEVER that pessimistic, but with this offense I am. There is NO power there. None.

 

I guess I'm leaning more and more toward the idea of moving Youkilis for a true power upgrade at the corner. He's valuable, he's good, he's a fan favorite, but I have NEVEr seen someone extend on a ball like he does and manage to hit weak popups to the opposite field. Teixiera would drive those balls out of the yard.

There aren't many hitters available either. If we know the team needs a pitcher, it's not an excuse for the FO to say that none are available. Everyone is available for the right price. Some will cost money, others prospects. It's up to them to get it done. The Yankees filled two holes last year with Abreu and Lidle and it didn't mortgage their future. Lots of FO apologists bought the cover story planted in the papers about the prohibitive expense of Abreu. That was proved to be hypocritical BS when they signed Drew for megabucks for a long term contract ending after the conclusion of this decade. A slumping Abreu is better than the Drew we are seeing and the Yanks only extended him one year. No excuses for the FO this year. They spent a lot on this team. With the right reinforcing, it could go deep into October. They need to get what is needed. There will be no excuses if they sit on thier hands and bad luck and this team to implode and goes home after September. If that happens, the responsibility lies right at the feet of the FO.

[a700hitter]

"Everyone here thinks Youk is a god' date=' so that's out of the question[/b']"

 

Sorry man, but when did what everyone here think matter in the slightest to what Theo actually does? seriously.

The answer is never, but I am not in the mood for arguing with all the Youkilis groupies about trading him. Moving him for an upgrade has ben an obvious move to me for some time. I've posted quite a few times that we should sell high on Youk. Unfortunately, I think the FO is in love with his cheap salary and they view him as a good value. He is a good value, which is why you can get some top talent in return for him.

[redsoxrules]

16 times since june 1 the sox offense has scored 2 runs or less , thats 40 percent of all their game played since june 1, thats pretty awfull , now im hoping its just a big slump and it will turn around but just to make sure id go and get a big bat

[a700hitter]

16 times since june 1 the sox offense has scored 2 runs or less ' date=' thats 40 percent of all their game played since june 1, thats pretty awfull , now im hoping its just a big slump and it will turn around but just to make sure id go and get a big bat[/quote']Griffey would be a nice fit, but we still need a pitcher if we want to be a serious contender.

 

Speaking of pitchers, and in this case I use this term loosely, what is the latest report on that bag of s*** replacemtn for Pedro, Clement. I thought they were going to make some decisions about his immediate future. I hope we don't have to resort to putting him on the mound in September. I'll puke if I see that.

[schillingouttheks]

I'd rather watch Clement pitch and hope we catch lightning in a bottle than watch the wheels fall off of Tavarez's carriage. The experiment is over. He needs to be put back into the bullpen.

 

Yes, Tavarez, that's a challenge. Make me think otherwise tonight.

 

I just have a hunch that this Mark Buehrle thing is still alive.

[example1]

There aren't many hitters available either. If we know the team needs a pitcher' date=' it's not an excuse for the FO to say that none are available. Everyone is available for the right price. Some will cost money, others prospects. It's up to them to get it done. The Yankees filled two holes last year with Abreu and Lidle and it didn't mortgage their future. Lots of FO apologists bought the cover story planted in the papers about the prohibitive expense of Abreu. That was proved to be hypocritical BS when they signed Drew for megabucks for a long term contract ending after the conclusion of this decade. A slumping Abreu is better than the Drew we are seeing and the Yanks only extended him one year. No excuses for the FO this year. They spent a lot on this team. With the right reinforcing, it could go deep into October. They need to get what is needed. There will be no excuses if they sit on thier hands and bad luck and this team to implode and goes home after September. If that happens, the responsibility lies right at the feet of the FO.[/quote']

 

Sell the farm to get Teixiera. Avoid Ellsbury--if you can--and Buchholz. Otherwise, anyone (including Lars Anderson) should be available. They should set their sights on him and make it happen. They shouldn't make a move just to make a move, but they should make the right move.

 

I'm glad we agree that this team has the potential to go deep into October. I don't agree that it all lies at the feet of the FO. How were they supposed to know that Manny and Ortiz would have a power outage? I'm not taking all blame away from them--as JD Drew appears to be a bust so far--but when the two rock-solid spots in your order are not producing the power they once did, I can't say that is predictable. According to the stats there was little reason to think it would happen this drastically. Yes, yes, both Ortiz and Manny are still great hitters, but they aren't producing like they have in the past.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

My two cents:

 

Go get Mark Teixeira....all prospects are available except for Clay Buchholz. Jon Lester, Michael Bowden, Jacoby Ellsbury, Kevin Youkilis, Coco Crisp, Wily Mo Pena, Craig Hansen....whatever. If they make a mistake with a few of those prospects....no big deal because we get Mark Teixeira. By the time he becomes a free agent and we possibly loose him, we will have other prospects we will be talking up. More options will arise and the Red Sox will move on.

 

The only reason I don't want to give up Clay Buchholz is because I have seen him pitch and understand his "stuff" is dominating. Some guys don't work out but he has a great chance of being an ace. Imagine what he will look like when he fills out. That 92-95 MPH fastball may pump up to 95-97 MPH. His change and curveball are probably the best in the system. In fact I think his curve is on par with Josh Beckett's. He may have the best change in the entire organization (although I'm still intrigued by Dice-Ks if he would use it more). I'd love to see the kid develop a splitter.

[CrespoBlows]

Griffey would be a nice fit' date=' but we still need a pitcher if we want to be a serious contender.[/quote']

 

Where would you play Griffey?

 

He wouldn't be an upgrade over Coco Crisp, and the Red Sox aren't going to bench J.D. Drew.

 

Does anyone realize, just how valuable Coco Crisp's glove has been this year? Coco Crisp has an FRAA of +16, if he continues at this rate, he will finish with an FRAA of +27. That's about what Willie Mays would produce in a season at his peak. His WARP1, which is being carried solely by his glove, is actually higher than Griffey's. (3.6 to 3.1)

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

He wouldn't be an upgrade over Coco Crisp' date=' and the Red Sox aren't going to bench J.D. Drew.[/quote']

 

Maybe they should bench JD Drew and his garbage SLG. Someone needs to give him a kick in the ass and tell him to DRIVE THE DAMN BALL!! He needs to be more aggressive. Speaking of JD Drew...has anyone seen him go the opposite way all season? Every time I watch him he is trying to pull the ball....go with what they give you.

[a700hitter]

How were they supposed to know that Manny and Ortiz would have a power outage? I'm not taking all blame away from them--as JD Drew appears to be a bust so far--but when the two rock-solid spots in your order are not producing the power they once did' date=' I can't say that is predictable. According to the stats there was little reason to think it would happen this drastically. Yes, yes, both Ortiz and Manny are still great hitters, but they aren't producing like they have in the past.[/quote']There is no power outage. Ortiz has said several times that he is being pitched to differently. Opposing pitchers are minimizing their opportunities to beat them, and the result has been less long balls. Frankly, I am surprised that it took this long for the league's pitchers to wise up. Let's face it, in 2003 these guys had protection all around: Nomar 28 HR 105 RBI, Millar 25 HR 96 RBI, Muellar 19 HR 85 RBI .326, Nixon 28 HR 87 RBI, Varitek 25 HR 85 RBI, Walker 13 HR 85 RBI-- astonishing support. In 2004, they had the same group, but less Nomar and Walker was replaced by Bellhorn 17 HR 82 RBI .373 OBP. In 2005, there was some slippage by some of the guys due to injuries, but it was essentially the same crew except they added Renteria, who was okay offensively, and they added Olerud for part of the season and he produced. The same guys were in the lineup providing protection, and let's not forget that we had Damon at the top of the order day in and day out as the catalyst. In 2006, Millar was gone and so was Damon. Renteria was also gone. Nixon was completely physically shot. Youk held up his end for the first half and for some reason pitchers kept pitching to the two big guys even though they had no real protection. This year they added Drew who has been a waste and Lugo who has sucked. There is no protection for these guys and the pitchers have figured it out throughout the league. The FO should have seen this coming. Look at the offensive juggernaut in 2003. Piece by piece that machine has been stripped away by injury, age and FA defections. We are left with a skeleton of that lineup. I am sorry, but the FO should have seen this coming for a couple of seasons. I have been dumbfounded that pitchers have continued to challenge them in 2005 and certainly 2006. This is no sudden decline by the two great hitters. Papi may not be a 50 HR guy every year, but with the right protection, he still would mash 40 and that's pretty darn good. Manny may not be a 45 HR guy, but he is a 30 HR 120 RBI guy if he gets some support.

 

Edit: In 2006 Bill Muellar was also gone. Lowell did great in the first half , but swooned in the second half. In 2006, we lost Millar, Muellar, and Damon and essentially Nixon who was a shell. That's huge. The FO should have seen it coming. They did not do enough to replace these guys.

[a700hitter]

Where would you play Griffey?

 

He wouldn't be an upgrade over Coco Crisp, and the Red Sox aren't going to bench J.D. Drew.

 

Does anyone realize, just how valuable Coco Crisp's glove has been this year? Coco Crisp has an FRAA of +16, if he continues at this rate, he will finish with an FRAA of +27. That's about what Willie Mays would produce in a season at his peak. His WARP1, which is being carried solely by his glove, is actually higher than Griffey's. (3.6 to 3.1)

Griffey would be a great 4th OF who could get plenty of playing time in place of Drew when his hammy acts up. He could spell Coco as well as Manny and Ortiz. Right now we are turning to crap like Hinske, WMP and a rookie to take those ABs. I'd feel much better if Griffey took those ABs.

[riverside sluggers]

My two cents:

 

Go get Mark Teixeira....all prospects are available except for Clay Buchholz. Jon Lester, Michael Bowden, Jacoby Ellsbury, Kevin Youkilis, Coco Crisp, Wily Mo Pena, Craig Hansen....whatever. If they make a mistake with a few of those prospects....no big deal because we get Mark Teixeira. By the time he becomes a free agent and we possibly loose him, we will have other prospects we will be talking up. More options will arise and the Red Sox will move on.

 

The only reason I don't want to give up Clay Buchholz is because I have seen him pitch and understand his "stuff" is dominating. Some guys don't work out but he has a great chance of being an ace. Imagine what he will look like when he fills out. That 92-95 MPH fastball may pump up to 95-97 MPH. His change and curveball are probably the best in the system. In fact I think his curve is on par with Josh Beckett's. He may have the best change in the entire organization (although I'm still intrigued by Dice-Ks if he would use it more). I'd love to see the kid develop a splitter.

 

Cmon man if the Sox trade for Mark Teixeira, especially if a Jacoby Ellsbury is involved, no doubt in my mind that they will not let Texeira hit free agency in 2008

[schillingouttheks]

Cmon man if the Sox trade for Mark Teixeira' date=' especially if a Jacoby Ellsbury is involved, no doubt in my mind that they will not let Texeira hit free agency in 2008[/quote']

 

Agreed. They'll trade for him and give him a nice long extension.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Cmon man if the Sox trade for Mark Teixeira' date=' especially if a Jacoby Ellsbury is involved, no doubt in my mind that they will not let Texeira hit free agency in 2008[/quote']

 

I'm fine with that....get it done

[example1]

There is no power outage. Ortiz has said several times that he is being pitched to differently. Opposing pitchers are minimizing their opportunities to beat them' date=' and the result has been less long balls. Frankly, I am surprised that it took this long for the league's pitchers to wise up. Let's face it, in 2003 these guys had protection all around: Nomar 28 HR 105 RBI, Millar 25 HR 96 RBI, Muellar 19 HR 85 RBI .326, Nixon 28 HR 87 RBI, Varitek 25 HR 85 RBI, Walker 13 HR 85 RBI-- astonishing support. In 2004, they had the same group, but less Nomar and Walker was replaced by Bellhorn 17 HR 82 RBI .373 OBP. In 2005, there was some slippage by some of the guys due to injuries, but it was essentially the same crew except they added Renteria, who was okay offensively, and they added Olerud for part of the season and he produced. The same guys were in the lineup providing protection, and let's not forget that we had Damon at the top of the order day in and day out as the catalyst. In 2006, Millar was gone and so was Damon. Renteria was also gone. Nixon was completely physically shot. Youk held up his end for the first half and for some reason pitchers kept pitching to the two big guys even though they had no real protection. This year they added Drew who has been a waste and Lugo who has sucked. There is no protection for these guys and the pitchers have figured it out throughout the league. The FO should have seen this coming. Look at the offensive juggernaut in 2003. Piece by piece that machine has been stripped away by injury, age and FA defections. We are left with a skeleton of that lineup. I am sorry, but the FO should have seen this coming for a couple of seasons. I have been dumbfounded that pitchers have continued to challenge them in 2005 and certainly 2006. This is no sudden decline by the two great hitters. Papi may not be a 50 HR guy every year, but with the right protection, he still would mash 40 and that's pretty darn good. Manny may not be a 45 HR guy, but he is a 30 HR 120 RBI guy if he gets some support.[/quote']

 

And this backs your argument that this team needs more pitching? Hmmm...

 

I KNOW the front office saw this coming. They talked about it. They spoke of needing to retool the team and the lineup and they have done that. DESPITE not having 28 HR from Nixon and all the production from Millar and Mueller and Nomar, this team is in first place. In fact, during the so-called dismantling, the Sox have made the playoffs 3 out of 4 times, and in the two seasons that they didn't make it (06 and 07 so far) they were leading the division into mid July. The problem is getting stuck on the production of the 03 and 04 teams. Those were amazing teams that were basically unrivaled in the history of baseball. My thinking is that the front office DID see this coming, and because they couldn't acquire another David Ortiz (because he doesn't exist) they instead got arguably the two best pitchers in 06 and 07 in Beckett and Matsuzaka. that appears to have worked pretty well.

 

I think you argue correctly, but the conclusion is that this team needs to add another bat.

 

And I am willing to argue that Manny's power has dropped. That's not to say it won't come back or that he lost his power. He simply hasn't driven balls like he usually does. I don't see a drop off in average or in OBP with Ortiz and Ramirez. I see a drop in SLG, mostly from Manny.

 

do you blame pitchers pitching differently to Ortiz and Manny for Manny not driving in a single runner when Ortiz was intentionally walked 3 times last week? A hitter as good as Manny Ramirez would not weakly complain "The pitchers are pitching differently to me!! that's why I'm bad." No man, this guy is a first ballot, no doubt hall of famer. The rules of baseball and the way pitchers approach hitters didn't suddenly change. He's in a bad streak, but he's also aging. The questions about his aging and its impact on his performance are valid, as he won't hit forever. I'm not willing to say it is his age that is causing the drop. He is off by about a fraction of a second and he has looked better recently. If those guys drive the ball the way they can then the offense will get going again. It isn't far off.

[example1]

Cmon man if the Sox trade for Mark Teixeira' date=' especially if a Jacoby Ellsbury is involved, no doubt in my mind that they will not let Texeira hit free agency in 2008[/quote']

 

Teixeira would be the centerpiece to their offense as he goes into his mid 30s. The guy is a tremendous hitter and would EASILIY ease the transition away from Manny and Ortiz to Mark and Ortiz in the coming few years.

 

Nice healthy extension for mr. teixeira if he comes this way.

[a700hitter]

And this backs your argument that this team needs more pitching? Hmmm...

The 2003 team didn't win the championship either. The reason? Pitching. Enter Schilling and Foulke. Raise the flag.

 

do you blame pitchers pitching differently to Ortiz and Manny for Manny not driving in a single runner when Ortiz was intentionally walked 3 times last week? A hitter as good as Manny Ramirez would not weakly complain "The pitchers are pitching

The pitchers have decided that they'll take their chances trying to get one of them out instead of both as they tried to do in past years. Challenge both of them and you increase your chances of giving up a long ball. Put one of them on 1B and you eliminate the chance of one long ball right there. Then go after Manny. Manny is a great hitter, but not the kind of long ball hitter that Ortiz is. If he gets a single, Papi goes to second. If he doubles Papi goes to third. No big deal for the pitcher. He's stayed away from the two run bomb or back to backers. Maybe Tito should consider flip flopping them. Force them to walk Manny and pitch to Ortiz.

[riverside sluggers]

Teixeira would be the centerpiece to their offense as he goes into his mid 30s. The guy is a tremendous hitter and would EASILIY ease the transition away from Manny and Ortiz to Mark and Ortiz in the coming few years.

 

Nice healthy extension for mr. teixeira if he comes this way.

 

One of the few out there Id be comfortable giving up Ellsbury for

[jacksonianmarch]

The question' date=' as always, is who is available that would be certain to make an impact. [b'] I think Schilling is as good or better in a stretch drive than anyone who is available.[/b]

 

Do you want to lay all of your eggs in Schilling's basket after he went on the DL with essentially no injury and continually, throughout the yr showed a serious decline in stuff? And when he left for the DL with no injury, he was worse than Tavarez.

 

In a fan's position, faith and prayer are all well and good. In Theo's position, he wont know what Schilling has until it is too late since Schill is scheduled to pitch ON DEADLINE DAY. If he doesnt fortify your rotation, then he is acting like a fan, which is a BAD idea. And if Schilling comes back and flops while the yankees and Clemens surge past you, then Theo will be looking for new employment. Losing out on Clemens was a bad move for the sox. Handing Tavarez of all people, the #5 position to begin the yr was a bad move. And now, with his supposed "ace" falling apart and his new 1-2 punch essentially all he has in the rotation, he MUST do something.

 

I will tell you this. If Theo relies on Schilling to be the only rotation fortification, this team is doomed. You saw what 2 pitchers got you. It took you from one of the best teams in all of baseball last season to 3rd in the division in a month and a half. There are 2 and a half left now. Plenty of time for the rotation to flop. If you go get a bat and pass on the pitching, you will either scrape into the playoffs or miss them entirely, and if you make it you will lose in the 1st round. And that is a farcry from the wrecking ball team we saw running through teams in April and May.