Wily Mo Pena

[TheKilo]

See sig.

 

 

If we move WMP it f***ing better be for someone better than Xavier f***ing Nady.

[a700hitter]

See sig.

 

 

If we move WMP it f***ing better be for someone better than Xavier f***ing Nady.

 

Nady might be a worse OF than WMP. He's a complete horror show in the field.

[riverside sluggers]

Too funny I just had to post this. On my way home from work I listen to the WEEI "whiner line". This guy who hates Wily Mo with a passion wants in a trade right away. And I quote

 

"Jackass: This is the highest his trade value will ever be. Cant we just package him up with a prospect? I know the Seattle Mariners have a good young pitcher in Brandon Morrow, or at least get a catcher to eventually take over for Varitek"

 

"Rob Bradford: Whoa, Whoa, settle down Sparky. What is this prospect you would send with Wily Mo?"

 

"Jackass: Well I was thinking send Wily Mo Pena and Clay Bucholz"

 

Rob Bradford: Oh you are not thinking clearly at all. The Sox right now have 2 forty year old starters in their rotation. Why trade away a young stud pitcher who is a year away from making the bigs? So youre telling me you wouldnt mind sacrificng giving up a prospect like this just so you'll be done with Wily Mo

 

"Jackass: Yea... pretty much

[seabeachfred]

See sig.

 

 

If we move WMP it f***ing better be for someone better than Xavier f***ing Nady.

 

Kilo, as you know I want Wily Mo moved and as quickly as possible because he is a disaster in the outfield and will cost us dearly if we keep him around, but I just wonder what we could get for him. His reputation for strikeouts and muffed balls in the outfield are pretty well known now. What I would do would be to take a chance and send him down and see if anyone claims him. We could always take him off waivers if he is claimed. Then we can get a good idea just how much value he has. My guess is that he would pass through waivers.

[seabeachfred]

Too funny I just had to post this. On my way home from work I listen to the WEEI "whiner line". This guy who hates Wily Mo with a passion wants in a trade right away. And I quote

 

Wily Mo Pena has that affect on his detractors and I am one of his biggest. Fortunately, I would never ever put Bucholz in such a trade, but, make no mistake, the longer we keep Pena the less his value will be. Eventually he will have to be released. The guy is a complete washout in the outfield.

[schillingouttheks]

Wait, you really think Wily Mo would clear waivers?

 

What I would do would be to take a chance and send him down and see if anyone claims him.

 

Just to clarify, are you saying we should send him to the minors or place him on waivers when you say "send him down"?

 

Also, Wily Mo is not a washout in the outfield. He's an adventure in right field, yes, but he's serviceable in center.

[riverside sluggers]

Fred cmon now, the Sox wont just release him without getting anything in return

 

He would easily pass through waivers? I just dont see that being possible. Lenny DiNardo was a hack for us and he was swooped up by the Oakland A's. Teams would be snatching at this 25 year old kid with raw power

[CrespoBlows]

Kilo' date=' as you know I want Wily Mo moved and as quickly as possible because he is a disaster in the outfield and will cost us dearly if we keep him around, but I just wonder what we could get for him. His reputation for strikeouts and muffed balls in the outfield are pretty well known now. What I would do would be to take a chance and send him down and see if anyone claims him. We could always take him off waivers if he is claimed. Then we can get a good idea just how much value he has. My guess is that he would pass through waivers.[/quote']

 

Wily Mo Pena has that affect on his detractors and I am one of his biggest. Fortunately' date=' I would never ever put Bucholz in such a trade, but, make no mistake, the longer we keep Pena the less his value will be. Eventually he will have to be released. The guy is a complete washout in the outfield.[/quote']

 

Do you pride yourself in being a total idiot?

[TheKilo]

Well how are all Coco's supporters loving his sub-.600 OPS?

 

No amount of defense can make up for that black hole in the lineup.

[seabeachfred]

Do you pride yourself in being a total idiot?

 

If you think in your total naiviity that Wily Mo Pena is a player that is more of an asset to us than a liability, then I would suggest you put a lot more brain in your diet because you're not only full of s*** but stupid to boot.

 

Do you believe your own ******** or do you believe your eyes? Did you see the game Friday night. A two run error and a ball that he misplayed for a double that Drew would have had in his sleep. Those two misplays probably cost us a chance to sweep the O's this past weekend.

 

Tell you what smartass; you tell me why you think this guy is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I will listen to what you have to say, but give me any of this s*** about this guy being a 35 homer man because by the time he got those dingers he would have struck out 1000 plus times and four or five seasons would have gone by.

[seabeachfred]

Wait, you really think Wily Mo would clear waivers?

 

 

 

Just to clarify, are you saying we should send him to the minors or place him on waivers when you say "send him down"?

 

Also, Wily Mo is not a washout in the outfield. He's an adventure in right field, yes, but he's serviceable in center.

 

Wily is serviceable in center up to a point. What I was suggesting was to put him on waivers and see if anyone claims him. We then can take him off and see if we can get something for him. Besides, CF is out for him very soon because Jacoby Ellsbury is getting that spot by next year if not before.

 

Anyway, we beat a very hot team tonight and Matsuzaka came through with a CG just at the time we needed it very badly. If Josh misses a start or two it is very important that we get top notch pitching performances from Daisuke, Tim and Schilling.

[TheKilo]

There is absolutely zero chance WMP clears waivers.

[seabeachfred]

Fred cmon now, the Sox wont just release him without getting anything in return

 

He would easily pass through waivers? I just dont see that being possible. Lenny DiNardo was a hack for us and he was swooped up by the Oakland A's. Teams would be snatching at this 25 year old kid with raw power

 

Riverside, if you are right, all I want you to do is take a look at the guy's total package. He cannot play RF; I know he cannot play left (saw him at YS last year and saw that with my own eyes). We have Ellsbury close to taking over in CF so where does that leave Wily Mo?

In my opinion, the best place for him is DH and there is no room for him in that role on this team. If you are right there must be some team in the AL who would be willing to rebuild and give this guy a full chance to show if he can ever become the hitter that the Yankees, Reds and Red Sox have believed he could become.

[TheKilo]

Wily is serviceable in center up to a point. What I was suggesting was to put him on waivers and see if anyone claims him. We then can take him off and see if we can get something for him. Besides' date=' CF is out for him very soon because Jacoby Ellsbury is getting that spot by next year if not before.[/quote']

 

I'm confused, I don't think we can put him on waivers and then take him off because someone claims him. If someone claims him he's theirs from then on, correct?

 

How much patience do you have with Crisp in center? His offense is absolutely atrocious. Believe it or not, WMP with all of his shortcomings has almost a .050 advantage in OBP. I won't even touch the advantage in slugging.

[TheKilo]

Riverside' date=' if you are right, all I want you to do is take a look at the guy's total package. He cannot play RF; [b']I know he cannot play left (saw him at YS last year and saw that with my own eyes).[/b] We have Ellsbury close to taking over in CF so where does that leave Wily Mo?

In my opinion, the best place for him is DH and there is no room for him in that role on this team. If you are right there must be some team in the AL who would be willing to rebuild and give this guy a full chance to show if he can ever become the hitter that the Yankees, Reds and Red Sox have believed he could become.

 

 

You saw him play one game and make a snap judgment like that? Do the words "small sample size" mean anything to you?

 

Give me a break. I can definitely see WMP as the replacement for Manny in left, because Manny is also an atrocious defensive outfielder.

[a700hitter]

I'm confused' date=' I don't think we can put him on waivers and then take him off because someone claims him. If someone claims him he's theirs from then on, correct?[/quote']I think there are different types of waivers. If a player is placed on irrevocable waivers, the claiming team gets the player. I think there is also something called Revocable Waivers. I think Players claimed on revocable waivers can be withrawn from waivers if claimed.

[TheKilo]

I think there are different types of waivers. If a player is placed on irrevocable waivers' date=' the claiming team gets the player. I think there is also something called Revocable Waivers. I think Players claimed on revocable waivers can be withrawn from waivers if claimed.[/quote']

 

Gotcha, thanks.

[seabeachfred]

You saw him play one game and make a snap judgment like that? Do the words "small sample size" mean anything to you?

 

Give me a break. I can definitely see WMP as the replacement for Manny in left, because Manny is also an atrocious defensive outfielder.

 

Au contraire Kilo. I saw him several times and in all those occasions he played horrible in the outfield. On Fenway's Opening Day 2006 I was him play a routine fly ball off his glove for a two run homer, turning a 5-1 breather into a 5-3 nailbiter. You know about his YS adventures, and I also saw him on TV in 2005 as a member of the Reds when he played a fly ball off his head for a homer off the Pesky Pole. Now that may still not be a large enough sample for you, but it certainly seems to me that it is enough to tell me that this guy still hasn't learned how to effectively track a fly ball. In CF? Well he is better, but, please, don't say LF. He can't play out there either. As for Manny, he is much better in the outfield that meets the eye. Again a small sample but I saw him make some outstanding plays in Boston, Anaheim and New York.

[TheKilo]

Au contraire Kilo. I saw him several times and in all those occasions he played horrible in the outfield. On Fenway's Opening Day 2006 I was him play a routine fly ball off his glove for a two run homer' date=' turning a 5-1 breather into a 5-3 nailbiter. You know about his YS adventures, and I also saw him on TV in 2005 as a member of the Reds when he played a fly ball off his head for a homer off the Pesky Pole. Now that may still not be a large enough sample for you, but it certainly seems to me that it is enough to tell me that this guy still hasn't learned how to effectively track a fly ball. In CF? Well he is better, but, please, don't say LF. He can't play out there either. As for Manny, he is much better in the outfield that meets the eye. Again a small sample but I saw him make some outstanding plays in Boston, Anaheim and New York.[/quote']

 

Manny is a bad left fielder. He plays the wall well, but at the same time it makes up for a lot of his shortcomings.

 

Manny won't be on the Red Sox past 2008. Why can't WMP take his place? Why can't he get more consistent time during Coco's struggles?

[seabeachfred]

Manny is a bad left fielder. He plays the wall well, but at the same time it makes up for a lot of his shortcomings.

 

Manny won't be on the Red Sox past 2008. Why can't WMP take his place? Why can't he get more consistent time during Coco's struggles?

 

You ask two very good questions Kilo and I'm not sure I can answer them adequately, but here goes anyway. He could take Manny's place but we probably would not get near the production we are used to from Manny. I worry about his strikeouts and lack of clutch hitting (ok, great grandslam against Baltimore). As for Coco, he could get a start or two out there if Tito is of a mind to do so. However, I am starting to get a little worried about J.D. Drew. He has been slumping for a little too long. He needs to break out.

[TheKilo]

You ask two very good questions Kilo and I'm not sure I can answer them adequately' date=' but here goes anyway. He could take Manny's place but we probably would not get near the production we are used to from Manny. I worry about his strikeouts and lack of clutch hitting (ok, great grandslam against Baltimore). As for Coco, he could get a start or two out there if Tito is of a mind to do so. However, I am starting to get a little worried about J.D. Drew. He has been slumping for a little too long. He needs to break out.[/quote']

 

No one, I repeat, no one will equal the production of Manny Ramirez.

 

WMP has the power to be an excellent run producer for this team, if he just got some consistent playing time.

 

I want WMP in the lineup tomorrow night taking one of Verlander's 98 MPH fastballs onto Landsdowne.

[CrespoBlows]

If you think in your total naiviity that Wily Mo Pena is a player that is more of an asset to us than a liability' date=' then I would suggest you put a lot more brain in your diet because you're not only full of s*** but stupid to boot. [/quote']

 

Oh, I'm sorry. He only has a .200 point advantedge in OPS over Coco Crisp. That's with irregular playing time, as well.

 

Oh, he did this, too:

 

http://www.examiner.com/images/ap/8c4fa40b-63c6-43a4-8b5a-328304215b5e.jpg

(Grand Slam against Baltimore)

 

 

Coco Crisp is clutch, tough, and gritty though. Wait, where does that count in the scoreboard?

 

Do you believe your own ******** or do you believe your eyes? Did you see the game Friday night.

 

Maybe you should re-read the thread you senile old f***. If the front office wants to put Pena in RF, then they are making a mistake, but Wily Mo has shown that he can handle CF. His bat erases any advantedge Coco Crisp might have with the glove.

 

Tell you what smartass; you tell me why you think this guy is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I will listen to what you have to say, but give me any of this s*** about this guy being a 35 homer man because by the time he got those dingers he would have struck out 1000 plus times and four or five seasons would have gone by.

 

Why is striking out such a bad thing? It's the same thing as a ground out, pop out, or fly out, and most cases it is preferable to a ground out.

[seabeachfred]

Oh, I'm sorry. He only has a .200 point advantedge in OPS over Coco Crisp. That's with irregular playing time, as well.

 

Oh, he did this, too:

 

http://www.examiner.com/images/ap/8c4fa40b-63c6-43a4-8b5a-328304215b5e.jpg

(Grand Slam against Baltimore)

 

 

Coco Crisp is clutch, tough, and gritty though. Wait, where does that count in the scoreboard?

 

 

 

Maybe you should re-read the thread you senile old f***. If the front office wants to put Pena in RF, then they are making a mistake, but Wily Mo has shown that he can handle CF. His bat erases any advantedge Coco Crisp might have with the glove.

 

 

 

Why is striking out such a bad thing? It's the same thing as a ground out, pop out, or fly out, and most cases it is preferable to a ground out.

 

Senile, huh???? Well, I have a senior moment now and then, but you are kind of long in the tooth yourself if your profile is just a pile of ********. Striking out??? Well a ground out can get in a run, a fly ball could drive in a run. A strikeout can't. Look, when Manny leaves after 2008 we are going to need a good righthand hitting power hitter, not doubt about that. I just have some deep reservations if Wily Mo is the answer. We could give him some more work in CF because if you would get your head out of your ass you would know that I am no Coco fan whatsoever. However, we have to keep in mind that position is reserved for Jacoby Ellsbury and very soon so Pena still would have to play the corner spots from time to time and we agree that he cannot play those spots.

 

Anyway, I am tired of all this WMP ********. We are winning and that's all the counts with me.

[seabeachfred]

No one, I repeat, no one will equal the production of Manny Ramirez.

 

WMP has the power to be an excellent run producer for this team, if he just got some consistent playing time.

 

I want WMP in the lineup tomorrow night taking one of Verlander's 98 MPH fastballs onto Landsdowne.

 

Kilo, Pena will probably start seeing more action in CF unless Crisp starts earning his salary.

[CrespoBlows]

Senile' date=' huh???? Well, I have a senior moment now and then, but you are kind of long in the tooth yourself if your profile is just a pile of ********. Striking out??? Well a ground out can get in a run, a fly ball could drive in a run. A strikeout can't.[/quote']

 

Ks are guaranteed outs. Non-hit contact events have the possibilty of a positive outcome. Errors, moving runners over, and even RBIs. That said, the DP is big negative. Look at the delta from the Expected-Runs matrix for each event. The first number is the expected runs for the situation, the second is the expected runs after the DP (with the lead runner advanced where applicable), the third is the delta:

 

Runner on 1st, no outs: .816, .105, -.711

Runner on 1st/2nd, no outs: 1.442, .314, -1.128

Loaded, no outs: 2.810, 1.314, -1.496

 

In the loaded situation, notice how it's 1.314 after the event. That is the same as 1st/2nd, but with a run scored, so even though you are actually scoring there, it's still a big negative. Here are the 1-out scenarios:

 

1st: .571

1st/2nd: .720

Loaded: 1.788

 

They obviously all drop to zero.

 

There are no appreciable benefits in the matrix in any situation where the runners are moved over for an out. Of course, it's important to remember these are theoretical expectancies, and some times you beat it while others you fall short. Due to that theoretical nature, I'll always take a run on the board. It is also important to remember that the alternative to the runner advancing outs is a K with the runners not advancing.

 

With all that said, it takes several runner-advancing plays to account for one DP in the theoretical matrix, so the overreaction to the K is unwarranted.

 

Statistical anaylsis by ORS.

 

Even if Wily Mo strikes out 190 times. He's going to make it up by far with 35 HR's.

 

Look, when Manny leaves after 2008 we are going to need a good righthand hitting power hitter, not doubt about that.

 

Do you have any idea who is in the 2009 Free Agent pool?

 

Jake Peavy?

Johan Santana?

Jason Bay?

Miguel Cabrera?

Matt Holliday?

 

Look, I know you think Branch Rickey is still the GM of the Brooklyn Dodgers, but you know you can sign a free agent, correct?

 

I just have some deep reservations if Wily Mo is the answer. We could give him some more work in CF because if you would get your head out of your ass you would know that I am no Coco fan whatsoever.

 

Oh, you are a fan of Eric Byrnes, who is equally as s*****.

 

If he proves he cannot hit with full playing time, he will not be the answer.

 

THE FUNNY THING IS, THE MOTHER f***ER HAS NEVER HAD REGULAR PLAYING TIME, NOR HAS HE DONE ANYTHING TO WARRANT BEING PUT ON WAIVERS. HE ONLY HIT .301 LAST YEAR WITH A WRIST INJURY. WOW, f*** YOU WILY MO. YOU STRIKE OUT, AND THAT'S REALLY BAD. HOMERUNS ARE GOOD, BUT SAC BUNTS AND GIVING UP OUTS ARE EVEN BETTER!

 

If Wily Mo Pena does not hit, he will not get playing time. That f***ing simple. When he has gotten playing time with the Red Sox, he's come up with hits.

 

However, we have to keep in mind that position is reserved for Jacoby Ellsbury and very soon so Pena still would have to play the corner spots from time to time and we agree that he cannot play those spots.

 

LF is easier to play then RF. If Pena is hitting 35 HR's, he should be the LF. They would be better served putting him in LF, and signing a Jake Peavy or Johan Santana.

[jacksonianmarch]

the only situations where putting the ball in play are ABSOLUTELY beneficial are runners on 2nd and 0 outs, or runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs.

 

Crisp in situations where there is a runner on 2nd or 3rd, is 2 for 13. I do not know how many productive outs he had there.

[adam123]

wmp stinks .. but 3 walks humm what gives

[adam123]

he will be traded this season

[MANNYHOF24]

wmp stinks .. but 3 walks humm what gives

 

I want to you to try to back up your post with some kind of logic please. Please don't use the strike outs in your logic.

[Rdsxmbnt]

updated stats:

WMP As a Starter:

.286/.390/.514/.904, 10 hits, 2 doubles, 2 HR, 6 BB, 6 runs, 5 RBI, 16 Ks

 

WMP As PH,replacement:

.181/.200/.181/.381, 1 hit, 0 BB, 2 run, 0 RBI, 4 Ks

 

(getting pretty compelling)