2007 Spring Training Game Thread

[seabeachfred]

Haha' date=' thats what my friends and family fear.[/quote']

 

MANNYHOF, my wife will NOT go to a Red Sox game with when they come out to California. No way, no how.

[TheKilo]

The season does not start for another month.

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Some people need to back off the ledge like ORS said.

[jacksonianmarch]

Needless to say riverside' date=' if Bucholz or Ellsbury are mentioned in any such trade talks it becomes a non-starter, but we have packages we could put up for a trade for Cordero. The Nationals aren't going anyplace this year or next or next and they could use some good young talent besides the ones we won't trade them. A closer to them means little because they are going to lose between 90-100 games so how many will Cordero save for them? Bowden's reluctance to pull the trigger in Cincy cost him his job there and at the rate he's going with his bad trades and inability to sign his free agents, he will soon be out of a job there unless he rebuilds his team and gets some talent for his weak farm system.[/quote']

 

Cordero is under their control for 3 more yrs. The Nats put together a great run 2 yrs ago. You get a bunch of things to go right and Cordero could be a huge boon. If not, you deal him in 2 yrs. And from what we have seen, the Nationals may be ready to hit the big time. They were just sold and are in a huge market. They may be a large market team come the time Cordero is a FA.

[seabeachfred]

The season does not start for another month.

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Some people need to back off the ledge like ORS said.

 

Glad to hear that you are satisfied with current developements and not having a care in the world concerning the Red Sox Kilo, but a few of us do have concerns about our bullpen which I think could be the item that sinks us this year. It's not panic city but it is a concern because I'm getting tired to eating Yankee dust year in and year out in the AL East. I think if would be nice for once to let them eat some of ours. Besides, in my opinion I think you can kiss off the Wild Card because there are many other teams in the other two divisions who could win more games than the second place team in the AL East. Now if you have any reasons we should not worry I would appreciate your sharing them with me.

[seabeachfred]

Cordero is under their control for 3 more yrs. The Nats put together a great run 2 yrs ago. You get a bunch of things to go right and Cordero could be a huge boon. If not' date=' you deal him in 2 yrs. And from what we have seen, the Nationals may be ready to hit the big time. They were just sold and are in a huge market. They may be a large market team come the time Cordero is a FA.[/quote']

 

I guess we've been seeing different things Jackson. I remember the Nats reeling last year and with a resurgent Braves club, and up and coming Phillies squad, and a powerful Mets team, the best the Nationals do this year is fourth place in their division if that. Even the Marlins could overtake them again. No, Washington needs to build for the future and they cannot do that without a good farm system which they do not have. It will take them a few years to get re-tooled and some young players could help them get the job started. We have what they need and they have what we need.

[schillingouttheks]

I guess we've been seeing different things Jackson. I remember the Nats reeling last year and with a resurgent Braves club' date=' and up and coming Phillies squad, and a powerful Mets team, the best the Nationals do this year is fourth place in their division if that. Even the Marlins could overtake them again. No, Washington needs to build for the future and they cannot do that without a good farm system which they do not have. It will take them a few years to get re-tooled and some young players could help them get the job started. We have what they need and they have what we need.[/quote']

 

The Marlins are better than that Braves team and possibly better than the Phillies. With last year's experience, we may be seeing them as the NL Wild Card winner this year. Book the Nationals for 5th.

[EvilDonut]

Glad to hear that you are satisfied with current developements and not having a care in the world concerning the Red Sox Kilo' date=' but a few of us do have concerns about our bullpen which I think could be the item that sinks us this year. It's not panic city but it is a concern because I'm getting tired to eating Yankee dust year in and year out in the AL East. I think if would be nice for once to let them eat some of ours. Besides, in my opinion I think you can kiss off the Wild Card because there are many other teams in the other two divisions who could win more games than the second place team in the AL East. Now if you have any reasons we should not worry I would appreciate your sharing them with me.[/quote']

 

 

Just give the pen some more time. Like ORS said, Paps looked piss poor for a while last year at this time. Wait a week or so before we start to seriously worry. Call me an optimist but they have plenty of time to get it together.

[seabeachfred]

The Marlins are better than that Braves team and possibly better than the Phillies. With last year's experience' date=' we may be seeing them as the NL Wild Card winner this year. Book the Nationals for 5th.[/quote']

 

Well if you see the Nationals for fifth Schill and I see them either there or no better than fourth, then what the hell is their closer to them when they need some talent to retool their beleaguered farm system. We have the means to give them some of the things they need, and while Kilo is somewhat on track about my being a little paranoid now, I can see it clearly from where I sit-----without a decent closer we could miss out on the AL East title this year and the Playoffs. I just hope that Theo can see that if things don't change soon with our bullpen, though it seemed like our relievers did a pretty good job today. Easy to understand why. Neither JoEl or MDC were allowed to go in there and give the game away.

[seabeachfred]

Just give the pen some more time. Like ORS said' date=' Paps looked piss poor for a while last year at this time. Wait a week or so before we start to seriously worry. Call me an optimist but they have plenty of time to get it together.[/quote']

 

Yes E.D., you are right; we do have time, but my take on this is that we have too many suspects to work our way through to find out just who could do the job---if any. I only hope we have enough "B" games this year so we can split our squads and give these guys a chance to get some innings in so we can see just who might be able to do the job. I concur with what ORS said, too. I was in Fort Myers last week of ST last year and in one game against the Rays Papelbon was getting ripped all over the place. It didn't seem to hurt him, but he had shown some ability in 2005 as a starter and reliever. MDC and Pineiero are coming off bad seasons and the latter had the worst ERA in the league last year

[riverside sluggers]

Pedroia's ranking in rotoworld's top 150 prospects

 

41. Dustin Pedroia - 2B Red Sox - DOB: 08/17/83 - ETA: Now

Previous rankings: 2005 #61, mid-2005 #27, 2006 #23, mid-2006 #30

 

.305/.384/.426, 5 HR, 50 RBI, 27/48 K/BB, 1 SB in 423 AB for Triple-A Pawtucket

.191/.258/.303, 2 HR, 7 RBI, 7/7 K/BB, 0 SB in 89 AB for Boston

 

The general view seems to be that Pedroia's stock has fallen over the last year, but after a slow start brought on by a shoulder injury suffered in spring training, he was productive as a 22-year-old in Triple-A, batting .330 and slugging .461 in 282 at-bats. Also, he showed terrific range at second base, the position that figures to be his long-term home. More than anything else, it was his arm that got him taken off shortstop. He did make the mistake of swinging for the fences too often after reaching the majors, but that's something time can take care of. The Arizona State product will be decent this year, and he should settle in as an above average regular beginning in 2008.

[jacksonianmarch]

rotoworld is the only ranking list that has Bard even on it, and ahead of Joba and Betances. Interesting.

[ANiMAL]

The general view seems to be that Pedroia's stock has fallen over the last year, but after a slow start brought on by a shoulder injury suffered in spring training, he was productive as a 22-year-old in Triple-A, batting .330 and slugging .461 in 282 at-bats. Also, he showed terrific range at second base, the position that figures to be his long-term home. More than anything else, it was his arm that got him taken off shortstop. He did make the mistake of swinging for the fences too often after reaching the majors, but that's something time can take care of. The Arizona State product will be decent this year, and he should settle in as an above average regular beginning in 2008.

 

that sure is a nice scouting report on him, gives me some confidence in the young lad

[jacksonianmarch]

the thing is, he isnt the type of prospect to be ranked highly. But he is a kid whose ceiling is very reachable. He will never win you a batting title, he wont win an MVP. But he will make the plays, hit for a respectable average and work counts. He is a very fundamentally sound player who will likely be an above average 2b and a solid player in your lineup for many yrs. But he wont be Carew or Soriano. That is why his rank has fallen. Ceiling is huge in many rankings and Pedroia's just isnt that high.

[seabeachfred]

Here and on other Red Sox boards I'm still amazed at how so many posters keep dissing Dustin Pedroia because of his less than stellar batting average when called up last summer. People forget that he his is some miserable luck for one thing, was yanked in and out of the lineup by our resident genius Francona, and was still not 100% healed in his shoulder. Despite that he hit 305 at Pawtucket after a miserable start due to missing ALL of ST, and projects as a player who gets the job done and plays above his ability. When I hear some bumpkin say go with Cora I want to puke. Let's get this straight once and for all. Cora plays well when he plays limited time; when he is exposed for long his ability level shoots downward fast. It is one reason the Dodgers released this guy even though he was a regular for them; they finally realized he was limited in his talents and why Cleveland hardly gave him a tumble even though they had the beached whale Ronnie Belliard rolling around second base.

[Gom]

Although a fan of the enemy, I am fully convinced that if Pedroia doesn't pan out, your FO will go out and get a stop gap. You have enough money and talent to pull off at the least an average 2B without a problem.

[EvilDonut]

Lester threw a perfect inning in a "b" game today.

 

It's a nice start.

[riverside sluggers]

Here and on other Red Sox boards I'm still amazed at how so many posters keep dissing Dustin Pedroia because of his less than stellar batting average when called up last summer. People forget that he his is some miserable luck for one thing' date=' was yanked in and out of the lineup by our resident genius Francona, and was still not 100% healed in his shoulder. Despite that he hit 305 at Pawtucket after a miserable start due to missing ALL of ST, and projects as a player who gets the job done and plays above his ability. When I hear some bumpkin say go with Cora I want to puke. Let's get this straight once and for all. Cora plays well when he plays limited time; when he is exposed for long his ability level shoots downward fast. It is one reason the Dodgers released this guy even though he was a regular for them; they finally realized he was limited in his talents and why Cleveland hardly gave him a tumble even though they had the beached whale Ronnie Belliard rolling around second base.[/quote']

 

Also of note Fred that by the time Pedroia was called up, he was simply exhausted like Youkilis was when September came. Dusty had 423 ABs in Pawtucket, by far the most he has played in a season.

 

Jackson I fully agree with your assesment on Pedroia. He should evolve into a team player, .280 - .300 hitter, .340 OBP or better, won't K a lot, 10 +/- HR power, not gold glover but steady none the less, and of course shouldnt cost a lot to keep him around. He's got the team backing him up and calling him the starting 2nd baseman, its time for him to prove he can become a player ready to serve in boston for years to come

[ANiMAL]

its nice to see lester pitching again

 

it had to be a great day for him and his family today

[Anuj09]

Only needed 8 pitches too - Lesters a beast

[riverside sluggers]

Roto's other rankings of Red Sox prospects in its 150 list

42. Jacoby Ellsbury - OF Red Sox - DOB: 09/11/83 - ETA: April 2008

Previous rankings: 2006 #138, mid-2006 #67

 

.299/.379/.418, 4 HR, 32 RBI, 28/25 K/BB, 25 SB in 244 AB for Single-A Wilmington

.308/.387/.434, 3 HR, 19 RBI, 25/24 K/BB, 16 SB in 198 AB for Double-A Portland

.276/.342/.371, 0 HR, 3 RBI, 16/8 K/BB, 7 SB in 105 AB for Peoria (AFL)

 

What Ellsbury lacks in offensive upside, he makes up for with potential Gold Glove defense in center field. The 2005 first-round pick out of Oregon State was one of the premier defenders in the minors last season, and he could offer just enough with the bat to be a leadoff man in the majors. The left-handed hitter shows gap power and the ability to hit for average. A few more walks would be nice, but at least he doesn't strike out very often. He'd probably be able to hold his own in the majors this year if Coco Crisp gets hurt again. A strong season split between Double- and Triple-A would make Crisp expendable next winter.

45. Clay Buchholz - RHP Red Sox - DOB: 08/14/84 - ETA: Aug. 2008

Previous rankings: mid-2006 #122

 

9-4, 2.62 ERA, 78 H, 117/29 K/BB in 103 IP for low Single-A Greenville

2-0, 1.13 ERA, 10 H, 23/4 K/BB in 16 IP for Single-A Wilmington

 

Buchholz was supposed to something of a raw product after getting drafted 41st overall out of a Texas junior college in 2005, but he's opened his pro career with a 2.47 ERA and a 185/42 K/BB ratio in 160 1/3 innings. Now it looks like the Red Sox could have him start this year at Double-A, though that's in large part because they don't want him to have to deal with the harsh environment at Lancaster in the California League. Buchholz works comfortably in the low-90s and has four pitches, though his curve lags behind his slider and change. As impressive as his command is, he would seem to have No. 2-starter potential.

92. George Kottaras - C Red Sox - DOB: 05/16/83 - ETA: April 2008

Previous rankings: mid-2005 #102, 2006 #89, mid-2006 #71

 

.276/.394/.451, 8 HR, 33 RBI, 68/50 K/BB, 0 SB in 257 AB for Double-A Mobile

.210/.286/.361, 2 HR, 17 RBI, 30/12 K/BB, 0 SB in 119 AB for Triple-A Portland

 

Kottaras, who was picked up from the Padres for David Wells at the end of August, possesses rare on-base ability for a catcher and appears likely to develop 15- homer power. His status as a prospect, though, hinges on his ability to stay behind the plate. He's not fast enough to become an option at another key position, so if he has to move, he'd be a first baseman or a corner outfielder. Kottaras has enough of an arm to be an adequate catcher if he can make enough progress on the other parts of his game. The Red Sox have no intention of having him change positions anytime soon. Ideally, he'd make enough progress defensively this year that he could begin splitting time with the aging Jason Varitek in 2008.

97. Michael Bowden - RHP Red Sox - DOB: 09/09/86 - ETA: 2009

Previous rankings: none

 

9-6, 3.51 ERA, 91 H, 118/31 K/BB in 107 2/3 IP for low Single-A Greenville

0-0, 9.00 ERA, 9 H, 3/1 K/BB in 5 IP for Single-A Wilmington

 

Bowden was taken six spots after Clay Buchholz in the 2005 draft and the two are often compared to one another. Bowden has the advantage of youth and his curveball is probably a better weapon than any of Buchholz's offspeed pitches. Still, he gets dropped a bit here because of a delivery that could lead to arm problems down the line. Also, his changeup doesn't quite measure up. He has plenty of potential if his elbow and shoulder hold up. Still, it'd be no surprise if physical problems get him sent to the bullpen someday.

116. Daniel Bard - RHP Red Sox - DOB: 06/25/85 - ETA: 2009

Previous rankings: none

[TheKilo]

I'm gonna end up putting the majority of this board on ignore.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm gonna end up putting the majority of this board on ignore.

 

you like talking to yourself then?

[TheKilo]

you like talking to yourself then?

 

Only if I'm looking for the right answer.

 

Obviously you are not on it. Yet.

[jacksonianmarch]

Only if I'm looking for the right answer.

 

Obviously you are not on it. Yet.

 

touche, good play.

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/03/06/they_may_have_put_their_finger_on_the_problem/

 

Beckett has eczema which has been the cause of his past problems with blisters. Now they know what theyre dealing with, they can properly treat him. There's creams & even medication he can take for it. He will only improve if he is able to throw his curves without having to worry about blisters breaking out

[BSN07]

Lester's velocity is still below the mid 90's stuff we heard of. He is sitting around 88-90MPH. But I doubt he is 100%

[BSN07]

45. Clay Buchholz - RHP Red Sox - DOB: 08/14/84 - ETA: Aug. 2008

Previous rankings: mid-2006 #122

 

9-4, 2.62 ERA, 78 H, 117/29 K/BB in 103 IP for low Single-A Greenville

2-0, 1.13 ERA, 10 H, 23/4 K/BB in 16 IP for Single-A Wilmington

 

Buchholz was supposed to something of a raw product after getting drafted 41st overall out of a Texas junior college in 2005, but he's opened his pro career with a 2.47 ERA and a 185/42 K/BB ratio in 160 1/3 innings. Now it looks like the Red Sox could have him start this year at Double-A, though that's in large part because they don't want him to have to deal with the harsh environment at Lancaster in the California League. Buchholz works comfortably in the low-90s and has four pitches, though his curve lags behind his slider and change. As impressive as his command is, he would seem to have No. 2-starter potential.

 

Didn't he win the award for best Curve ball in the Sox farm sysytem?

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/03/06/they_may_have_put_their_finger_on_the_problem/

 

Beckett has eczema which has been the cause of his past problems with blisters. Now they know what theyre dealing with, they can properly treat him. There's creams & even medication he can take for it. He will only improve if he is able to throw his curves without having to worry about blisters breaking out

 

I heard this and am intrigued. Eczema, the itch that rashes. Edema flows into the fingers prior to pitching from the excoriation. The shearing forces of the ball cause the layers of the skin to separate and fluid accumulates in that separation in the form of a blister.

 

One thing about eczema. It is controllable. Not necessarily preventable 100%. If he has an outbreak, they should be smart and shut him down until the outbreak is taken care of and his fingers are less red and scaly. It is good to figure out the reasoning. Now they just have to be very careful with him.

[a700hitter]

They're not unknown quantities, they've both done everything they can to prove themselves at every level. They just aren't known to US. For those who go to Single-A games or scout HS games they're not unknown. Clay Buchholz's brother pitches for the Astros system (I believe) and BA said clay's a future Ace. Bowden put up similar numbers but was 2 years younger.

 

The "unknown quantities" argument is easy to make but its not legitimate in this case. A HS player who has only been scouted a few times might be unknown, but not guys drafted two seasons ago.

I'll correct myself. They are unknown quantities at the ML level. It only matters what they do at the ML level. Everything they do at the ML level is to earn a shot or to be used as a trading chip. In the end more prospects are useful as trading chips than as major leaguers.

Also' date=' Ellsbury, to me, looks MUCH faster than Crisp. That triple he hit the other day was pretty impressive (again, 10 seconds from when he started running forward to when he slid into 3rd) and he doesn't seem to be overwhelmed by any pitcher he's faced so far.[/quote']He looks good, but to my eye he doesn't look faster than Crisp. I didn't put a stop watch on him, but I think Crisp is slightly faster. If I am wrong, Ellsbury is certainly not much faster than Crisp.

[a700hitter]

Here and on other Red Sox boards I'm still amazed at how so many posters keep dissing Dustin Pedroia because of his less than stellar batting average when called up last summer.

My criticism of him has nothing to do with the stats that he put up at the end of last year. My criticism is based on my observation that he is a slow middle infielder, with an average arm. I question whether his range is as good as I am hearing and his hands are not that impressive either. At bat, he is a little guy with a big swing ands warning track power. IMO, he'll be an average second baseman for a couple or three years.