If no Matsuzaka, then what?

[a700hitter]

What are Zito's stats against the Red Sox in the Colisem. Maybe it isn't Fenway that is the problem. Maybe it is the Red Sox.

[Fried Neckbones]

What are Zito's stats against the Red Sox in the Colisem. Maybe it isn't Fenway that is the problem. Maybe it is the Red Sox.

 

Don't know about the Coliseum per se, but his career numbers against the Sox are pretty similar - 5 and 5 with a 4.78 ERA in 13 starts. Here's the link if you want to stat-geek out.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=zitoba01&year=00

[a700hitter]

Don't know about the Coliseum per se, but his career numbers against the Sox are pretty similar - 5 and 5 with a 4.78 ERA in 13 starts. Here's the link if you want to stat-geek out.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=zitoba01&year=00

His overall ERA against the Red Sox (4.78) is higher than his ERA at Fenway (4.65), so it seems that his problem is the Red Sox not Fenway. I think he'd be fine at Fenway.

[Fried Neckbones]

His overall ERA against the Red Sox (4.78) is higher than his ERA at Fenway (4.65)' date=' so it seems that his problem is the Red Sox not Fenway. I think he'd be fine at Fenway.[/quote']

 

His other problem is the Yankees. 3-9 with a 5.2 ERA. Not that you build looking at one team, but still. :thumbdown

[jacksonianmarch]

the yankees OWN him. FLAT OUT OWN HIM.

[a700hitter]

His other problem is the Yankees. 3-9 with a 5.2 ERA. Not that you build looking at one team' date=' but still. :thumbdown[/quote']True. You don't want to invest in someone that can't perform well against the Yankees, but the Yankees have lost one of their big RH hammers-- Sheffield.

[jacksonianmarch]

True. You don't want to invest in someone that can't perform well against the Yankees' date=' but the Yankees have lost one of their big RH hammers-- Sheffield.[/quote']

 

It really wasnt him though. Zito has a problem with the walks and the yankees are the best at drawing them. It doesnt mix well.

[CrespoBlows]

2007 offseason:

Mark Buerhle

Doug Davis

Bartolo Colon

Livan Hernandez

Jason Jennings

John Smoltz

Jake Westbrook

Carlos Zambrano

 

2008 offseason:

C.C. Sabathia

Bronson Arroyo

Jeremy Bonderman

Jon Garland

John Lackey

Derek Lowe

Pedro Martinez

Mike Mussina

Jake Peavy

Brad Penny

Mark Prior

Ben Sheets

Javier Vazquez

[jacksonianmarch]

Bonderman, Lackey, and Peavy are better

[CrespoBlows]

Bonderman' date=' Lackey, and Peavy are better[/quote']

 

Peavy is probably the most talented, Sheets is a close second.

 

The guy had 11 walks compared to 116 strikeouts last year. He's going to dominate in '07.

[Beckett95]

if he can stay healthy, he's dominant

[CrespoBlows]

The only way Matsuzaka becomes a free agent, is if Boras buys Matsuzaka's free agency from Seibu. MLB would probably have to recognize that Matsuzaka is a free agent.

[TheKilo]

The only way Matsuzaka becomes a free agent' date=' is if Boras buys Matsuzaka's free agency from Seibu. MLB would probably have to recognize that Matsuzaka is a free agent.[/quote']

 

They already said they would not recognize it.

[example1]

Bonderman' date=' Lackey, and Peavy are better[/quote']

 

Bonderman! Bonderman! Bonderman!

[CrespoBlows]

They already said they would not recognize it.

 

That would be a court case that Boras could win. MLB could refuse it, but if an arbitrator rules against MLB, then Matsuzaka is in.

 

I think it's impossible that Seibu allows the Apocalypse to strike Japanese baseball, by allowing such a thing to happen, but they are still odds.

[a700hitter]

That would be a court case that Boras could win. MLB could refuse it, but if an arbitrator rules against MLB, then Matsuzaka is in.

 

I think it's impossible that Seibu allows the Apocalypse to strike Japanese baseball, by allowing such a thing to happen, but they are still odds.

An arbitrator has no authority unless the parties agree to submit to arbitration.

[ORS]

An arbitrator has no authority unless the parties agree to submit to arbitration.

More importantly, the NPB commissioner's office has said they won't allow Boras to subvert the posting process. So, no matter what a court decided here in regards to Matsuzaka being recognized as a FA, he wouldn't be released from his contract in Japan.

[CrespoBlows]

More importantly' date=' the NPB commissioner's office has said they won't allow Boras to subvert the posting process. So, no matter what a court decided here in regards to Matsuzaka being recognized as a FA, he wouldn't be released from his contract in Japan.[/quote']

 

And if Seibu allows Matsuzaka to buy his free agency?

 

If that happens, he probably could sue MLB to be granted free agency. I don't see how they can block him then.

 

Even with that being said, it's doubtful this situtation even happens.

[CrespoBlows]

An arbitrator has no authority unless the parties agree to submit to arbitration.

 

Sorry, I should have said judge.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree with you, but MLB used to recognize retired japanese players as international FA's (Soriano and Nomo are 2). We dont anymore. If Boras opens that avenue once again, then players will flow freely from one side to another and the teams in Japan wont get a dime.

[ORS]

They'll have to go to court first. MLB and NPB have entered into an agreement where MLB won't recognize "retired" players as eligible for free agency. They would have to sue against that agreement. Precedent in the US courts sides with businesses recognizing the contractual obligations of personnel. Additionally, NPB won't allow free agency rights to be bought outside the agreed upon posting process. Seibu could go against the NPB, but I'm unsure of the Japanese legal environment and how that would work. As members of NPB, are they bound by all NPB agreements? And, given the importance of honorable business dealings in Japan, would they go against the agreement amongst their peers? Doubtful.

[jacksonianmarch]

I completely agree. Anything Boras does will have to be on the state side.

[seabeachfred]

Interesting posts guys, very much so and this former US Government teacher also learned a thing or two about the law that I wasn't aware of----that is, if you guys were right. Thanks for the info. I would be more thankful, however, if Daisuke is on that place tonight back to Boston. Face it, with BorASS it is ALWAYS about the money and we all know that's the hangup, but maybe I can throw a little ray of sunshine on everything. Toby Hall, who hit very well this past summer when the Dodgers gave him chances to play, is now available and there is our reserve catcher who can catch regularly if Tek slumps or get hurt. We ought to sign him and fast. I also notice we signed Joe McEwing to a minor league contract and he is one helluva utility man who can play all over the infield and outfield and is not a bad hitter at all. Also Jason Werth, also formerly of the Dodgers, was a half-season standout for them in 2004 before suffering a severe broken wrist. We could give him a minor league contract and if he is fully recovered he is young enough to come back and have several good years for us as a 4th OF and a spot starter. Hey, always thinking of your guys. Hope my rays of sunshine helped; it helped me because I read in the paper this morning about Matsu and I needed a shot of good cheer myself.

[NYH]

I really want this Matsuzaka deal done because we certainly don't want a repeat of last season in which guys like Snyder and Taveraz were used as starters. Schilling and Wakefield are over 40, Beckett was very inconsistent and Lester might not be ready. I'm glad to see Pappelbon move back to the rotation but that leaves a hole at closer and I don't think Timlin is the answer there. We haven't done anything to address our pitching problems which makes the Dice-K signing urgent IMO.

[adam123]

damm scott boras ..that guys a complete ass .. he wont even talk to us .. mlb should step in and demand that a deal gets done there are so many things that tie in with this .. its too important to loose him what message does that send to japan . boras needs to be hung up and whiped ...he does this with all his players . i like kenny williams reasoning he will not even bargin with scott boras players cause he knows borass is a swindler

[BudLight]

damm scott boras ..that guys a complete ass .. he wont even talk to us .. mlb should step in and demand that a deal gets done there are so many things that tie in with this .. its too important to loose him what message does that send to japan . boras needs to be hung up and whiped ...he does this with all his players . i like kenny williams reasoning he will not even bargin with scott boras players cause he knows borass is a swindler

 

 

Adam, I understand your frustration with the Matsuzaka negotiations, but here's another point of view. Boras is doing what he has traditionally done, get the most that he can for his clients, that's his job. MLB has no business stepping in to get a deal done, they are the ones who agreed to the posting process with the Japanese Baseball league. The message I see being sent to Japan if a deal can't be reached is this, the Seibu Lions ownership are a bunch of greedy SOB's who deserve to not get a dime. They accepted the ridiculous $51M compensation bid for a guy who is supposedly the best pitcher in Japan that they paid only $2.5M in salary to last year. The bid money affords them the opportunity to bring in 25 more Matsuzaka's. That's greedy!

[schillingouttheks]

damm scott boras ..that guys a complete ass .. he wont even talk to us .. mlb should step in and demand that a deal gets done there are so many things that tie in with this .. its too important to loose him what message does that send to japan . boras needs to be hung up and whiped ...he does this with all his players . i like kenny williams reasoning he will not even bargin with scott boras players cause he knows borass is a swindler

 

Yeah, Boras is such an ass because he's the best at his job

[jacksonianmarch]

I still think Boras challenges the posting system even though dmat is a sock now.

[seabeachfred]

I really want this Matsuzaka deal done because we certainly don't want a repeat of last season in which guys like Snyder and Taveraz were used as starters. Schilling and Wakefield are over 40' date=' Beckett was very inconsistent and Lester might not be ready. I'm glad to see Pappelbon move back to the rotation but that leaves a hole at closer and I don't think Timlin is the answer there. We haven't done anything to address our pitching problems which makes the Dice-K signing urgent IMO.[/quote']

 

NH, it looks like the Matsu deal is going to get done. Theo, Larry, Daisuke and BorASS were all on the plane heading back to Boston this morning. When that deal is done we will have a pretty damn good rotation, and then we only have to worry about getting that closer and we now have the trading chips to do it----Pena or Crisp, Delcarmen or Hansen, Murphy or Pauley, Gabbard or Moss. We can now get it done. I also hear we may actually have a chance with Clemens. Could you imagine what our staff would look like with the Rocket also aboard. :D :D :D :D