Red Sox less than optimistic about reaching accord with Matsuzaka

[a700hitter]

What an exercise in futility debating this. He'll sign. It's just a matter of how long and how much. The Red Sox will not be the party running to Seibu. It will be Boras. He 's the one that has called this a three-way deal. Gee, I wonder what he meant by that. Duh? He's working the back channels to try to get Seibu to pony up. He's got no leverage. Seibu knows it. The Red Sox know it, and Matsuzaka is packing his bags for the US. The only ones that don't know it are the bitter Yankee fans that are hoping Cashman is making clandestine late night phone calls to Boras. They are living in a fantasy land.

[example1]

What an exercise in futility debating this. He'll sign. It's just a matter of how long and how much. The Red Sox will not be the party running to Seibu. It will be Boras. He 's the one that has called this a three-way deal. Gee' date=' I wonder what he meant by that. Duh? He's working the back channels to try to get Seibu to pony up. He's got no leverage. Seibu knows it. The Red Sox know it, and Matsuzaka is packing his bags for the US. The only ones that don't know it are the bitter Yankee fans that are hoping Cashman is making clandestine late night phone calls to Boras. They are living in a fantasy land.[/quote']

 

I really hope you're right. I'm getting pissed off actually thinking about the sox NOT getting him. I think he's the best pitcher on the market this year and I THINK that the sox huge spending on guys like Lugo and Drew indicate that they've kicked it into high gear to go after the next set of Sox players.

 

I imagine that the Sox FO is just as excited at the prospect of getting a guy like Matsuzaka as Red Sox fans are, especially given the balance and age that he will add to the team.

[riverside sluggers]

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=171060

 

D-Mat and his family will be in Boston next week for the first time.

[Gom]

Rumor has it that the actual negotiation for Matsuzaka will start at 11:54 PM on December 13th. LOL!

[BSN07]

GOM your an ass! But I love having you around:) I was gonna post something like that until I saw you write it!lol

[example1]

More media driven posturing? Perhaps a move to make it seem like the initial Globe based media posturing wasn't just posturing? Who knows?

 

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=171334&format=&page=1

 

Talks have essentially broken down. Even though they've really only just started (with Boras and the Sox being busy with Winter Meetings etc.,). Apparently Boras is pissed about the posting system and the process itself. He doesn't like not being able to negotiate with multiple teams. Tough s***.

 

I'm wondering if the whole process was thrown off when the MLB proclaimed that Seibu could not pay anything to Matsuzaka and that the MLB would be paying close attention to the negotiations and the exchange of money. It is widely known that Seattle didn't end up paying most of the $ it put up for Ichiro and even Baseball America was speculating that this would be a twist in the process... up to the point when MLB came out and "clarified" the point. I think that really f***ed things up.

 

So I'm still confident a deal will be struck. What I see happening is Boras telling Matsuzaka to go back to Japan. The Red Sox will stick with the offer they made, perhaps raising it to a "reasonable" 10m a season. Boras will plead with matsuzaka to go back, but Matsuzaka's desire to play in the MLB will be the ultimate deciding factor. This all has to happen in the next few days and its going to be crazy to watch if it all goes down.

 

I will be disappointed if the Red Sox are not able to sign a pitcher who is, aside from money, sitting in their locker room already. I have no doubt that this pitcher will be one of the better MLB pitchers and will definitely make this team better.

 

I don't think I'm the only one, but I know I prefer to watch pitching over hitting almost any day of the week. I get excited to watch starts by guys like Beckett, Schilling, Pedro (back in the day), Lester (cause I want to see his good stuff), Papelbon, etc., I get bored watching games pitched by Kyle Snyder and the other junk they put on the mound.

 

With Matsuzaka the Sox would have 4 starters that I would go out of my way to watch (i.e., try to get off work early enough to see the game). I don't think I'm alone on that one.

 

Get it done Sox. Get it done.

[riverside sluggers]

Something Im keeping myself optimistic is that these "negotiation breakdowns" are between the Sox & Boras, not D-Mat whatsoever. He will be arriving in Boston shortly to officially enter the talks

[BSN07]

Matsuzaka will have the final word. He most likely will sign for whatever the sox offer, it's Boras trying to line his pockets, because he knows how much money this guy could bring in for him. Boras has sour grapes because he can't get a 100 million dollar deal out of this because of the posting system. Tough cookies biotch! Shouldn't have represented a guy that wasn't a FA!LOL

[jacksonianmarch]

It is becoming rather clear now. Boras is refusing to budge off his demands that he be treated as a FA and should be paid as such. If not, he will challenge the MLB-Japan posting system. As most agents, Boras is a successful lawyer as well and a case can definitely be made to try and strike down the posting system. Matsuzaka may be the biggest piece to ever be posted and Boras may use his fame plus Boras' know-how to strike this thing dead to begin with. If Boras could get rid of the posting system and in the meantime Matsuzaka has to go back to Japan for a year or two, he will be considered a hero to tons of Japanese baseball players whose wish to go to the MLB has to be approved by the owners rather than their own free will.

[riverside sluggers]

Pure Yankee fan drivel. A sports agent get rid of an international procedure such as the posting system? Besides its not the best thing for Matsuzaka to back for 2 more years. Lets just wait until the deadline comes and goes to speculate what is going to apparent. What is apparent is that Boras is using the "Only I know English" card as he is trying to make Matsuzaka's decisions for him. D-Mat wants to pitch in the Statesnow not 2 more years, where Japan's league has their pitchers throw considerably more. Why did he hold a goodbye celebration with his fans and his teammates. A picture in yahoo sports showed him being tossed up in the air by his teammates as a way to say "good luck in the US". He tipped his f***ing cap farewell to his fans.

 

He went to LA to find a training facility to his liking then will film a commercial for Nike. This week he is bringing his family to Boston with him as the deadline looms. The Boston Herald reported that they will take a tour of the city and possibly a pre-scouting of homes. Matsuzaka made an estimated $3 million. He would be looking greedy to his country & the Seibu Lions if say he regected a 4 or 5 year deal worth $14 per

[jacksonianmarch]

Pure Yankee fan drivel. A sports agent get rid of an international procedure such as the posting system?

 

I think you have clouded your mind to reason. Read Gammon's take on ESPN. Boras may be using Matsuzaka to force change in a process that the major league commissioner has already said needs to be changed. Boras can provide the impetus with Japan's biggest star being the lynchpin.

 

That being said, the rumor was that the sox offered Matsu 7-8 mil a yr for 4-6 yrs. Boras wants 15mil a yr and neither has budged to find a common middle ground.

[riverside sluggers]

I think you have clouded your mind to reason. Read Gammon's take on ESPN. Boras may be using Matsuzaka to force change in a process that the major league commissioner has already said needs to be changed. Boras can provide the impetus with Japan's biggest star being the lynchpin.

 

That being said, the rumor was that the sox offered Matsu 7-8 mil a yr for 4-6 yrs. Boras wants 15mil a yr and neither has budged to find a common middle ground.

 

Ok that was the inital offer reported like around Thanksgiving wknd. Matsuzaka is in town this week, ludicrous to think the Sox wont up the ante. Yea Im sure the Sox will just sit back and dream of what hack-free agent they can sign to be their 5th starter and call 2007 another re-building year

[jacksonianmarch]

Ok that was the inital offer reported like around Thanksgiving wknd. Matsuzaka is in town this week' date=' ludicrous to think the Sox wont up the ante. Yea Im sure the Sox will just sit back and dream of what hack-free agent they can sign to be their 5th starter and call 2007 another re-building year[/quote']

 

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=171334

 

have you read the article? The talks have broken down.

[riverside sluggers]

Yes Ive read the article o mighty pinstriped fan. Again Matsuzaka is in town this week. The article also says the "source" mentioned there is still time for changes to be made. You actually believe the Sox are content to letting Matsuzaka go back without a fight, and have some retard Kyle Snyder or Jason Johnson in the 5th spot?

[jacksonianmarch]

content, no. But like with Gagne and Dotel, he is willing to leave a hole in his team if the salaries do not fit his model of value. Also, Boras seems to have a hidden agenda here. As much egg as will get on both of their faces, if Boras + Matsuzaka could find an easier way for japanese players to come to america, they would be heroes rather than greedy moneygrubbing bastards. Some have been speculating that Boras was using this posting as a way to get rid of the posting system all along.

[riverside sluggers]

content' date=' no. But like with Gagne and Dotel, he is willing to leave a hole in his team if the salaries do not fit his model of value.[/quote']

 

Gagne and Dotel are injury risk relievers that could contend for the closer's role, there's still trade possibilities that would be better options for 07. Matsuzaka on the other hand has been called an "Asian Pedro" and would definitely solidify Boston's rotation to be a lock for the playoffs.

[BSN07]

Just drop it until after the deadline. Then you can debate about what Boras was upto. Theres no way to know either way until them. And the f***ing media is just as clueless as we are, so theres no point listning to a single word they say.

[jacksonianmarch]

Gagne and Dotel are injury risk relievers that could contend for the closer's role' date=' there's still trade possibilities that would be better options for 07. Matsuzaka on the other hand has been called an "Asian Pedro" and would definitely solidify Boston's rotation to be a lock for the playoffs.[/quote']

 

The sox are no lock to make the playoffs. A lock to make the playoffs is a team that is solid in every aspect of the game. The sox need a bullpen to emerge before I give them a lock status.

[riverside sluggers]

The 2003 Sox didnt have a good bullpen until midway through the season, the Cardinals bullpen this past year wasnt all that great after their closer went down.

[jacksonianmarch]

The 2003 Sox didnt have a good bullpen until midway through the season' date=' the Cardinals bullpen this past year wasnt all that great after their closer went down.[/quote']

 

The 03 sox had Timlin and Embree in career form going into that yr. They also had Williamson and dealt for Kim, who was very good that season. The point is, they had 2 reliable, prime arms in the pen when the season started.

 

The 06 cardinals had Izzy and Looper as the SU/CL combo and allowed Wainwright to grow as the 7th inning guy. Once Izzy went down Wainwright was ready to step up.

 

Also, this is the AL East. The Cardinals won that division with 83 wins. If you want to equate them with anyone in the ALE, then be my guest, but that team in this division would have been under .500 and would have missed the playoffs by 20 games.

[mar_022]

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=171334

 

sweet

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

You know this isnt the first time Boars has done something like this. He has had draft picks like Luke Hochevar sit out an entire year. While its not the EXACT situation its similar in a way because he can only negotiate with one team. I think it clearly comes down to Matsuzaka. How much does he really want to come to the US? Or does he let Boars talk him into sitting out a year for bigger money?

[jacksonianmarch]

You know this isnt the first time Boars has done something like this. He has had draft picks like Luke Hochevar sit out an entire year. While its not the EXACT situation its similar in a way because he can only negotiate with one team. I think it clearly comes down to Matsuzaka. How much does he really want to come to the US? Or does he let Boars talk him into sitting out a year for bigger money?

 

I think Boras is talking him into being the face that changes the japanese posting system. Boras is a shrewd lawyer and he already has fodder for his claim coming from the commissioner. The posting system should go to s***. If you want to play in america, you should be granted that opportunity.

[riverside sluggers]

The 03 sox had Timlin and Embree in career form going into that yr. They also had Williamson and dealt for Kim' date=' who was very good that season. The point is, they had 2 reliable, prime arms in the pen when the season started.[/quote']

 

Yeah Williamson was bad for the Sox during the 03 season, unless a 6.20 ERA is solid to have in the bullpen

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I think Boras is talking him into being the face that changes the japanese posting system. Boras is a shrewd lawyer and he already has fodder for his claim coming from the commissioner. The posting system should go to s***. If you want to play in america' date=' you should be granted that opportunity.[/quote']

 

I heard Selig say that the posting system needs to be looked at so I expect MLB to make changes regardless next season.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah Williamson was bad for the Sox during the 03 season' date=' unless a 6.20 ERA is solid to have in the bullpen[/quote']

 

he was traded to the sox during that season if I remember correctly and was supposed to be the closer. Either way, going into the season the sox had the reliable embree and timlin who were still in their prime. Right now they have Timlin as an old beat up pitcher, and bipolar julian out there ready to punch a phone on command. If the rest of the pen is populated by Hansen, Delcarmen, Breslow, Hansack, et al then it would be a large miracle if the sox pen is solid this yr.

[riverside sluggers]

he was traded to the sox during that season if I remember correctly and was supposed to be the closer. Either way' date=' going into the season the sox had the reliable embree and timlin who were still in their prime. Right now they have Timlin as an old beat up pitcher, and bipolar julian out there ready to punch a phone on command. If the rest of the pen is populated by Hansen, Delcarmen, Breslow, Hansack, et al then it would be a large miracle if the sox pen is solid this yr.[/quote']

 

There's also a guy named Okajima who is not giving too much credit to have a good season with his fair share of K's

[jacksonianmarch]

There's also a guy named Okajima who is not giving too much credit to have a good season with his fair share of K's

 

he is a complete unknown. Sounds like a matchup lefty though people are saying he can face both. We'll see. Thing is, even in 2003, you knew Timlin and Embree were going to be good. I dont think there is one person you can point to in that pen and say, that guy will be solid this season. That is distressing.

[a700hitter]

he was traded to the sox during that season if I remember correctly and was supposed to be the closer. Either way' date=' going into the season the sox had the reliable embree and timlin who were still in their prime. Right now they have Timlin as an old beat up pitcher, and bipolar julian out there ready to punch a phone on command. If the rest of the pen is populated by Hansen, Delcarmen, Breslow, Hansack, et al then it would be a large miracle if the sox pen is solid this yr.[/quote']Embree had a 4.25 ERA. He was pretty terrible until the stretch drive. That entire bullpen was a disaster until they collectively pulled it together down the stretch and in the post -season. There is plenty of time for the Sox bullpen to come together. It is far more important to build a consistent reliable starting rotation going into the season. Bullpens tend to be inconsistent from year to year and even within the same year. Many teams with good bullpens on paper will not get good bullpen performance. All that needs to happen is that one key guy is ineffective or injured. That can have the effect of putting a strain on the rest of the pen which eventually impacts the effectiveness of the other guys in the pen. It's nice to build a pen for the start of a season, but building a pen continues throughout the season. The rotation is more important, because it will minimize the damage that can be done by a bad pen and it can also help preserve a good pen.

[Beckett95]

Matsuzaka needs to get a new agent, fast