Red Sox less than optimistic about reaching accord with Matsuzaka

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/12/07/getting_dicey_with_matsuzaka/?page=1

 

So in summary. Boras is trying to convince Matsuzaka that returning to Japan for 2 yrs is worth it to him. The sox want to control Matsuzaka for 6 yrs, meaning they will not put a clause in his contract that requires the sox to deny arbitration, while Boras considers this a breaking point. Like I said before, he either wants big bucks for the long haul or a shorter term deal with the quick option of being a FA. The sox are offering neither.

 

Varying views have less apprehension about a deal being done, but it looks like Boras is being very firm with his demands and refuses to barter down.

[ORS]

Boras will remain firm until the 11th hour. So will the Sox. It's like a game of chicken to see who flinches first. Anything from now until the deadline is posturing. In the end, a deal will get done somewhere in the middle.

[jacksonianmarch]

I understand Boras' position though. Either sign him for big money for 6 yrs, essentially buying out his arbitration yrs, or sign him to a shorter deal with a clause that lets him hit the open market after that contract ends. Forget the money for a second. That is a breaking point for any japanese player. Matsui had a clause that disallowed offering arbitration, and I think Boras will ask for that in any negotiation shorter than 6 seasons.

[Mr Crunchy]

well if he dont sign here he can go back to seibu looking like a greedy prick

that wont play well in japan and it may doom boras in the international marketplace if he cant cut a deal with the guys who just threw 14M at jd drew

 

i dont think boras will worry about his next meal but he is 1 greedy prick

[stevece80]

It's like a game of chicken to see who flinches first.

 

I'm not sure that's the point of the game Chicken.

[ORS]

I'm not sure that's the point of the game Chicken.

It isn't?

 

chick·en (chkn)

 

1. Noun

-The common domestic fowl (Gallus domesticus) or its young.

-Any of various similar or related birds.

-The flesh of the common domestic fowl.

2. Slang. A coward.

3. Any of various foolhardy competitions in which the participants persist in a dangerous course of action until one loses nerve and stops.

4. Vulgar Slang. A young gay male, especially as sought by an older man.

 

Loses nerve, flinches. Tomato, tomahto.

[Bud]

We sure as f*** better sign him, after we put up all that money to purchase his rights.

 

Man, I f***ing hate Scott Boras - he's such a prick!!!

[jacksonianmarch]

Boras does play the role of the older gay male rather well now doesnt he.

[riverside sluggers]

We sure as f*** better sign him, after we put up all that money to purchase his rights.

 

Man, I f***ing hate Scott Boras - he's such a prick!!!

 

Oh believe me, Scott Boras will be in hot water with the Japanese league if Matsuzaka isnt signed. If Boras isnt able to work out a deal with Boston for their best pitcher, will top-named players still be vying for his services over there? Typical Boras blockbuster deals always happen at the stroke of midnight of the deadline. The Sox are not going to just walk away from this.

[BSN07]

Boras is a dick, but good at what he does.

 

ORS love how you brought out the webster's dictionary reply:thumbsup:

 

Don't expect a deal to get done until the 11th hour of the last day.

 

Matsuzaka has already said good bye, and on numerous occasions has said he wants to play here next year not in Japan. Boras is just trying to get everything he can for this guy now, but Matsuzaka has the final say in if he wants the contract or not, at that point I think he signs the best offer put fourth by the Sox, no matter what it is. Boras is the one who wants big money now or early FA for this guy to make his own pockets bigger, not Matsuzaka. I believe Matsuzaka would have already been signed to a nice contract if he had another agent besides Boras.

[schillingouttheks]

We sure as f*** better sign him, after we put up all that money to purchase his rights.

 

Man, I f***ing hate Scott Boras - he's such a prick!!!

 

...if we don't sign him, we get the money back.

[stevece80]

It isn't?

 

chick·en (chkn)

 

1. Noun

-The common domestic fowl (Gallus domesticus) or its young.

-Any of various similar or related birds.

-The flesh of the common domestic fowl.

2. Slang. A coward.

3. Any of various foolhardy competitions in which the participants persist in a dangerous course of action until one loses nerve and stops.

4. Vulgar Slang. A young gay male, especially as sought by an older man.

 

Loses nerve, flinches. Tomato, tomahto.

 

I thought you were describing a staring contest. They should have Fear Factor-style negotiations. I want to see Scott Boras eat a bowl of bloodworms.

[Mr Crunchy]

as riverside says

boras has opened a new market in japan

now if he has to send this guy back to seibu for another year he would be disgraced over there

 

see

in japan there is such a thing as shame

[BSN07]

I can't take Dan Shaunessy seriously anymore, after ripping Manny and heading the mob that was trying to run him out of town, then turning around and saying it was a smart idea to keep him because we where only getting .60 cents on the dollar.

 

So as far as him saying anything about the Matsuzaka negotiations, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

[Bud]

if Matsuzaka gets sent back to Japan it'd be awesome if the Japanese forced Boras to commit Harakiri

 

(if you aren't familiar with that stuff, basically you slice open yourself with a sword - supposed to have been done by people who shamed themselves during the Samurai era)

[BSN07]

:thumbsup: Thats funny stuff lol

 

 

Matsuzaka will except a deal by the deadline. It might not be the one Boras wants but all this s*** about him going back to Japan comes from him trying to squeeze some leverage out of the negotiations. After all the going away stuff the Matsuzaka had, he would be the laughing stock of the country, and he basically would sink the Seibu Lions because they need that 51.1 million to stay afloat. Matsuzaka won't want that to happen, and he won't want to seem like a greedy prick. He will sign.

 

All this s*** about him going back is reporters reporting only stuff Boras is telling them because our FO isn't discussing it and they have nothing else to go on. Boras is basically stuck with a knife at a gun fight and he's just talking a big game up until the moment before the fight starts to see if he can BS anyone, then when it doesn't work he will back off to the side with the gun lol

[TheKilo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/05/sports/baseball/05base.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin

 

The Red Sox are also trying to complete a deal for outfielder J. D. Drew that could average $14 million a year, and they are making progress in their negotiations with pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka.

 

Matsuzaka has told his agent, Scott Boras, that he does not want to return to Japan.

 

The Red Sox bid $51.1 million to gain the right to negotiate with Matsuzaka, and they do not want to pay him the $11 million or $12 million a year that Boras thinks Matsuzaka deserves as an ace pitcher. The Red Sox feel that the price that they posted to the Seibu Lions has to be factored into Matsuzaka’s potential salary.

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=776

 

Daisuke Matsuzaka will return to the United States this weekend with the goal of ironing out a deal with the Red Sox.

 

Most everyone seems to think a deal will get done, but probably not long before the midnight Dec. 14 deadline. It's hard to believe the Red Sox could spend $14 million per year on J.D. Drew and $9 million per year on Julio Lugo and then fail to lock up the best pitcher on the market.

 

In summary. no new developments and nothing of importance to say.

 

Lock the f***ing thread.

[Gom]

Wow, you guys are really seeing this with Red Sox blinders.

 

Now, I've gone on record and stated that I think the Sox will sign Matsuzaka. However, I see a very real possibility, if the Sox and Boras don't come to an agreement, of Boras going to the Lions, and buying out Matsuzaka for 20-30 million, and then signing a major deal with one of the other 29 teams. You don't think that the Yankees, Mets, and Rangers won't break $100 million for this guy?

 

Shame, honor, pride....kinda disappears when you have tens of millions of dollars on the table.

[TheKilo]

Wow, you guys are really seeing this with Red Sox blinders.

 

Now, I've gone on record and stated that I think the Sox will sign Matsuzaka. However, I see a very real possibility, if the Sox and Boras don't come to an agreement, of Boras going to the Lions, and buying out Matsuzaka for 20-30 million, and then signing a major deal with one of the other 29 teams. You don't think that the Yankees, Mets, and Rangers won't break $100 million for this guy?

 

Shame, honor, pride....kinda disappears when you have tens of millions of dollars on the table.

 

 

 

You don't think MLB officials are watching negotiations closely?

 

How is Boras going to subvert the whole system and just buy out Matsuzaka? That makes absolutely no sense.

 

He gets signed, as repeated ad nauseam, in the 11th hour.

[elsrbueno]

You don't think MLB officials are watching negotiations closely?

 

How is Boras going to subvert the whole system and just buy out Matsuzaka? That makes absolutely no sense.

 

He gets signed, as repeated ad nauseam, in the 11th hour.

 

 

I imagine if buying out a players' contract was legal it would have happened years ago. Why bother going through the posting system when a guy's 26 when you can buy him outright when he's 24? The Yankees would have thought of this already.

 

I am in agreement that this deal gets done. Matsuzaka's said it's his DREAM to play in the Major Leagues and I imagine the Red Sox who've dished out a ton of money aren't going to let a few million prevent them from adding one of the best young arms in the world.

 

Scott Boras is no doubt waiting for the other big arms to come off the table-- which Schmidt just got his (3 years, $47 million) and if he can he controls Zito and Matsuzaka at this point. I'd say $12 million a season is fair and probably what he'll get.

[riverside sluggers]

Originally Posted by Gom

You don't think that the Yankees, Mets, and Rangers won't break $100 million for this guy?

 

What a 180

 

Sox bid $51 million, with expected contract to increase total price overall to over $100 million. Gom and other Yankees fan criticized us for the Sox FO to shell out such cash for an unproven pitcher in the States. Now its alright for him to say the yankees could break bank over $100 million for him?

 

And no Boras can not just buy him out from the Lions. Again (say this a lot to yankee fans), blockbuster deals like this with Boras always happen until the last second. Foolish to think the Sox are just going to let him walk away and be fine with Snyder as their 5th starter

[Mr Crunchy]

if gil meche,a career stiff,is offered 45M by the god awful royals

whats this guy going to settle for??

 

less??

 

i dont think so

[Gom]

You don't think MLB officials are watching negotiations closely?

 

How is Boras going to subvert the whole system and just buy out Matsuzaka? That makes absolutely no sense.

 

He gets signed, as repeated ad nauseam, in the 11th hour.

 

There is nothing at all that states that a player cannot buy himself out of his current contract. It hasn't happened yet since this is the first time we are seeing a salary explosion for players.

 

What a 180

 

Sox bid $51 million, with expected contract to increase total price overall to over $100 million. Gom and other Yankees fan criticized us for the Sox FO to shell out such cash for an unproven pitcher in the States. Now its alright for him to say the yankees could break bank over $100 million for him?

 

And no Boras can not just buy him out from the Lions. Again (say this a lot to yankee fans), blockbuster deals like this with Boras always happen until the last second. Foolish to think the Sox are just going to let him walk away and be fine with Snyder as their 5th starter

 

I didn't say he was worth it. I said with the market explosion in salaries, and with Zito asking for 100 million from the Rangers, and Soriano getting $136 million, Lee $100 million, etc., some team, whether it is the Yankees, or Mets, or Rangers, or some "mystery team" will pony up the dough.

 

And yes, Boras CAN just buy him out. There is nothing that says he cannot. It has been talked about often.

 

Here are a link asserting to the fact that he can.

 

http://www.thesportstruth.com/2006/11/daisuke-matsuzaka-bostons-511-million-man-and-counting.html

 

I still think that the Sox and Matsuzaka will come to an agreement. I, for one, am throwing a party if they don't. You just give Drew and Lugo over $100 million dollars, and this guy is worth more than both of them, and they don't want to cough up the dough...funny.

[jacksonianmarch]

What a 180

 

Sox bid $51 million, with expected contract to increase total price overall to over $100 million. Gom and other Yankees fan criticized us for the Sox FO to shell out such cash for an unproven pitcher in the States. Now its alright for him to say the yankees could break bank over $100 million for him?

 

And no Boras can not just buy him out from the Lions. Again (say this a lot to yankee fans), blockbuster deals like this with Boras always happen until the last second. Foolish to think the Sox are just going to let him walk away and be fine with Snyder as their 5th starter

 

the criticism is that Matsuzaka may make 100 mil OVER 3 YEARS. THAT is insane. 100 mil over 6-8 yrs is not as insane now.

 

As for buying him out, the question is, can Boras go to Seibu and say, "Here is 25 million dollars, please release my client." Nobody would know, although everyone will speculate and Matsuzaka would be a FA.

[example1]

the criticism is that Matsuzaka may make 100 mil OVER 3 YEARS. THAT is insane. 100 mil over 6-8 yrs is not as insane now.

 

As for buying him out, the question is, can Boras go to Seibu and say, "Here is 25 million dollars, please release my client." Nobody would know, although everyone will speculate and Matsuzaka would be a FA.

 

But Matsuzaka wouldn't have made 100 mill over 3 years. The Sox would have spent that much but the amount Matsuzaka takes home is much, much less. Just to clarify.

[Cocos Disciples]

Yeah, Matsuzaka wouldn't make 33.3 mil per f***ing season.

[jacksonianmarch]

But Matsuzaka wouldn't have made 100 mill over 3 years. The Sox would have spent that much but the amount Matsuzaka takes home is much' date=' much less. Just to clarify.[/quote']

 

you know what I mean. 100 mil would have been spent on Matsuzaka over 3 yrs. Whereas, if Matsu hit the market, he would likely get Schmidt money for 7 yrs.

[example1]

I really think that I see a reasonable solution to this, and I think most other people here do too, which is what makes the whole stuation so frustrating.

 

1) I undestand the sox "low-balling" Boras. That's who they're lowballing, not Matsuzaka. I know its weird, but they have shown Matsuzaka lots of respect throughotut ths process. They have addressed him respectfully, kept negotiations quiet, and proved to the entire Japanese baseball fanbase that, no, they're not insane, they have a player that a MLB team is wlling to pay 51.1m to negotiate with. Matsuaka is a bona-fide hero thanks to that bid and he's styling. I really think this is the only chace that any team will have to screw Boras, if they so choose. Instead of the team choosing the free agent and getting the agent that comes with him, the team was chosen for the agent and it is non-negotiable. The Sox can legitimately say take it or leave it. At worst they don't get the guy and get all their money back. At best they sign him.

 

2. I think the Sox really want Matsuzaka. I also think they will make a reasonable offer for him.

 

3. If the sox stick with the 8 million dollar offer that was originally mentioned and are willing to lose him over that then I think they would be being DICKS.

 

I think they just don't want to be jerked around. What they want to avoid is paying Matsuzaka THIS YEAR'S inflated Free-Agent price when, in fact, he hasn't thrown in the MLB yet and even if he were really good he probably doesn't deserve more than 11-13m a season. No pitcher really ever deserves more than that, when you take the variable markets into account. Sometimes you have to pay more due to supply and demand, but supply is 1 player, demand is one team. I don't see why this wouldn't happen at a reasonable price when all is said and done.

 

The sox just don't want to get screwed over by Boras and Matsuzaka doesn't want to get screwed either.

[jacksonianmarch]

Here is the thing. The market is going to be up for a long time. Why you ask? Because baseball made over 1 billion dollars more in revenue last yr than they were predicting. Every single team is now flush with cash which makes the players very happy. There is labor piece as well and a system that essentially rewards big spending teams. The market has readjusted for good and you may see the 2nd 20-25 mil a yr player next offseason. Right now, if Matsuzaka was on the open market he would get anywhere from a 6-10 year deal worth anything from 14-19 mil per. He should not and will not accept anything that will lock him up for 6 yrs unless Theo decides to reach those heights. Think about it. If he goes back to Japan, he could be a FA in 2 yrs at 28 and still make that money. If he accepts the pile of s*** the sox are offering now then he will be 32 before he hits the market again and will have had 6 yrs of valued performance under his belt. If the sox get him for 6 yrs at 10mil per, and he could have landed a 10 yr deal at 16 mil per in 2 yrs, then he still would lose 4 mil over those 6 yrs. Then, he would likely not have the 16 mil deal continuing for 6 more yrs, rather, he would likely get a 4 year deal worth a little less because he is a small framed power pitcher who is going to be speculated to break down earlier. It makes absolute fiscal sense for Matsuzaka to stay in Japan if the sox try to control him for 6 yrs at bargain basement price.

[example1]

But I don't thnk they're really going to have it be at bargain basement price. I think their offer will be reasonable. We've all 'heard' that they offered like 8m a year, but we also all 'heard' that the Yankees were the sure fire winners of the matsuzaka stakes, and also that the Sox had won for an 'absurd' bid of 38-43m (it ended up being higher than that, obviously).

 

If Matsuzaka sits out the next two seasons (MLB-wise) there is a tremendous chance that he could get injured and never see a red-penny from the MLB. I think that's too much to risk.

 

I think the Sox will sign him for 13-14 a year for 4 years.