John Smoltz??

[jsinger121]

Loretta has a .729 OPS. Pedroia has the skills to top that in 2007 at a fraction of the cost.

[CrespoBlows]

think so crespo?

loretta has played tremendous 2nd base and hit fairly well,.308??

some big clutch hits along the way and great baserunning instincts

pedroia hasnt seen major league pitching yet

 

He may not hit .308, but Pedroia walks much more then Loretta does, and his defense is just as capable as Loretta's. Plus, Pedroia, unlike Loretta, can actually drive the ball. Loretta seems like he can no longer drive the ball. He's also 35, how much longer can he hold this kind of production up? He may be worth $5 million in 2007, but what about in '08, and '09?

[Mr Crunchy]

no argument from me here

i dont think loretta gets a long term deal here in any case

in fact i dont remember the last time we inked a 2nd basemen to any type of long term deal.....you??

marty barrett?

 

i do like the way he works with agon

i do like the way he hits in the clutch

i would like some more plate patience and

is it a coicidence that his power #s disappeared after the roids testing began??

[jsinger121]

how about the fact that he had a significant thumb could be the reason for his power to diminish along with his gap power.

[Cityofchampions33]

Not that I'm undermining Loretta's value to this team and his accomplishments, but he basically ahs an empty average,a s in all his hits are just hits, he's not scoring an insane amount of runs, getting a lot of RBIs or hitting a ton of homers. So, if teh Sox choose to move up pedroia, he'd just have to match teh average to do a good job IMO. He's already a proven defensive MINF so the defense won't be a problem, plus he can give us a few million back to go after a pitcher.

Anotehr option is moving him back to SS. He would still give us a killer DP combo, perhaps keeping AGone as a defensive mentor? and also gains us perhaps another Loretta in the lineup. Some have said he can't move back to SS, but I see no reason why not if he already ahs experience there.

[kreinbihl34]

I wouldn't let Loretta walk as easy as some as you were. Yes Pedroia is a good spect but that doesn't always translate to a good MLB player.

[a700hitter]

I wouldn't let Loretta walk as easy as some as you were. Yes Pedroia is a good spect but that doesn't always translate to a good MLB player.

Neither would I.

[ksushi]

If I were Theo I would look to move some of the position prospects for major league pitching at this deadline. Like Pedroia, Ellsbury in the right deal and Soto possibly. Maybe Lowrie. To me, if you home grow and lock up solid pitching, the 7 guys who play behind them can be bought on the market. So can the guy behind the plate. The pitching is rare and expensive, you stock pile that and never dish it out.

[Rdsxmbnt]

any chance of giving Loretta a 1 or 2 year deal and putting Pedroia at SS?

[a700hitter]

any chance of giving Loretta a 1 or 2 year deal and putting Pedroia at SS?

I'd hate to part with AGon at SS. I haven't seen a SS as good as him for the Sox. He and Lowell have that lefts side plugged up tight.

[riverside sluggers]

I guess the question is: Are we more worried about replacing Mark Loretta for next season or finding a proven starting pitcher to help us win this season??

 

Really no wrong way of answering. You can want to win this year or want to build for next season. I don't see Dustin Pedroia being the next Derek Jeter or David Wright but....who knows.

 

Eh in essence I see Dustin Pedroia as the next Loretta. Good soft hands while giving steady defense, potential to be .300 hitter, great patience of strike zone, not that much of HR hitter but can deliver good gap power

 

Im not saying Pedroia's a sure bet to come right out of the gate but I dont see the harm in giving this kid a shot come 2007

 

Just want to reiterate a recent comment from Theo:

"Acquiring guys like Snyder & Johnson, call ups.. are part of our plan to not risk giving up blue chip prospects for a band-aid of a fix. We're always thinking long term here.

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

Not that I'm undermining Loretta's value to this team and his accomplishments, but he basically ahs an empty average,a s in all his hits are just hits, he's not scoring an insane amount of runs, getting a lot of RBIs or hitting a ton of homers. So, if teh Sox choose to move up pedroia, he'd just have to match teh average to do a good job IMO. He's already a proven defensive MINF so the defense won't be a problem, plus he can give us a few million back to go after a pitcher.

Anotehr option is moving him back to SS. He would still give us a killer DP combo, perhaps keeping AGone as a defensive mentor? and also gains us perhaps another Loretta in the lineup. Some have said he can't move back to SS, but I see no reason why not if he already ahs experience there.

 

Adressing the second paragraph: See the 2nd most recent post in the Dustin Pedroia thread in the Minor League section.

[Mr Crunchy]

smoltz goes down after getting beaten uo foir 1 1/3??

leg injury of some sort

 

wonder how this plays out

do they shelve him till july and risk losing value for him or does he come back quickly and risk injury....hes a gamer,he wont fluff it intentionally

[MC Hammer]

Not that I'm undermining Loretta's value to this team and his accomplishments, but he basically ahs an empty average,a s in all his hits are just hits, he's not scoring an insane amount of runs, getting a lot of RBIs or hitting a ton of homers. So, if teh Sox choose to move up pedroia, he'd just have to match teh average to do a good job IMO. He's already a proven defensive MINF so the defense won't be a problem, plus he can give us a few million back to go after a pitcher.

Anotehr option is moving him back to SS. He would still give us a killer DP combo, perhaps keeping AGone as a defensive mentor? and also gains us perhaps another Loretta in the lineup. Some have said he can't move back to SS, but I see no reason why not if he already ahs experience there.

So all he'd have to do is arrive in the bigs and hit .306? Yeah that's easy .... Do you understand how hard it is to come up to the bigs and succeed at all? And you're saying "he'd just have to match the average"? Hitting .306 is not exactly easy ... especially for a 23 year old who has never seen big league pitching before. And ESPECIALLY considering he's not even hitting .290 in AAA.

 

Why is money an issue at all? Why do we need to save some money at 2B? Are we suddenly a small market team? In the last 2 years we let 2 of our higher priced players walk away in Damon and Pedro ... I can't believe we'd have a need to save any more money.

 

If you guys honestly believe that Dustin can come in now and replace Loretta's numbers and defense right away ... I'd like to meet you so I can laugh in your face.

[jsinger121]

Dustin will be the sox starting 2B in 2007. No way the sox bring loretta back for 2 more years when he is already 34 years old and showing diminish power and gap power as well. I like Loretta but I have seen Pedroia play and he's a damn good ballplayer. The whole plan in getting Loretta was to have a 1 year stopgap until Pedroia was ready for 2007.

[a700hitter]

Why is money an issue at all? Why do we need to save some money at 2B? Are we suddenly a small market team? In the last 2 years we let 2 of our higher priced players walk away in Damon and Pedro ... I can't believe we'd have a need to save any more money.

The Sox don't need to pinch pennies. It would be foolish to let Loretta walk after this year. Pedroia could come up and caddie at 2nd and SS next year. It would be foolish to give him a starting spot out of the box without knowing whether he can handle it. If they let Loretta walk they would be operating without a safety net if Pedroia flops.

[jsinger121]

They should offer arbitration to Loretta and get the draft picks. Pedroia is more than capable of replacing Loretta and if people give him a chance he will make people forget about Loretta quickly because he is a younger better version of Loretta who has more power than Loretta.

 

Having Pedroia at 2B next season is not penny pinching by the sox when the guy clearly is talented and clearly is ready to play. Its about cost effectiveness and using that savings to fill more important needs like pitching.

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

They should offer arbitration to Loretta and get the draft picks. Pedroia is more than capable of replacing Loretta and if people give him a chance he will make people forget about Loretta quickly because he is a younger better version of Loretta who has more power than Loretta.

 

Having Pedroia at 2B next season is not penny pinching by the sox when the guy clearly is talented and clearly is ready to play. Its about cost effectiveness and using that savings to fill more important needs like pitching.

 

I agree. Even if Pedroia flops, which I don't think he will, we'll still have a very good offense. But by saving money, we'll be able to go after the better pitchers on the market.

[ORS]

I doubt they will get picks for Loretta. Tony G is the same player with more pop, and nobody wanted to give up picks for him when he was offered arbitration as a type-A last offseason.

[jsinger121]

I doubt they will get picks for Loretta. Tony G is the same player with more pop, and nobody wanted to give up picks for him when he was offered arbitration as a type-A last offseason.

 

They might try to get the picks for him but he is 34 with declining pop and the market might be thin.

[Beckett95]

They might try to get the picks for him but he is 34 with declining pop and the market might be thin.

 

If Loretta chooses FA, he'd be second best 2nd baseman available

[a700hitter]

I agree. Even if Pedroia flops, which I don't think he will, we'll still have a very good offense. But by saving money, we'll be able to go after the better pitchers on the market.

There's no reason not to let Pedroia caddy for a year. They could offer Loretta arbitration and hope no one signs him to a multi-year contract. Loretta is not a high ticket guy. There's no reason to let him walk for chump change, when he could be a good mentor to Pedroia in '07.

[jsinger121]

There's no reason not to let Pedroia caddy for a year. They could offer Loretta arbitration and hope no one signs him to a multi-year contract. Loretta is not a high ticket guy. There's no reason to let him walk for chump change, when he could be a good mentor to Pedroia in '07.

 

There is no reason for Loretta to mentor Pedroia in 2007 when Pedroia will be ready to start fulltime. Loretta is likely gone at the end of the year.

[a700hitter]

There is no reason for Loretta to mentor Pedroia in 2007 when Pedroia will be ready to start fulltime. Loretta is likely gone at the end of the year.

He hasn't played one game in the majors and he has limited ST experience, so what makes you so sure that he is ready to step into a full time ML job? Franchises like the Red Sox are not big on letting players learn on the job. The scrutiny that a kid would be subject to as he goes through the inevitable growing pains might not be the best way to break him into the majors. I don't see them going "sink or swim" with this kid next year. Hell, they weren't ready to throw Papelbon into the rotation coming out of ST regardless of Foulke's status. You can keep saying it all you want, but repeating it over and over will not make it happen, nor does it mean that it is the right decision, even if the FO does it.

[jsinger121]

They got Loretta to be a solid stopgap. Maybe if you have seen Pedroia play you would know what I am talking about but its clear you have not. He not only had a spectacular career at Arizona but has had an excellant minor league career outside of 2 freak injuries (one getting hit on the wrist causing poor production in the 2nd half in pawtucket and the other injury straining his shoulder in ST which set him back in Pawtucket before he is finally playing and producing). I like Loretta but I see no reason at all to give him a multi-year deal at his age when the Sox drafted Pedroia with a high pick and have had him on the fast track to Fenway Park. Had he not gotten hit off the wrist last year it was widely speculated he would have come up last year to replace Bellhorn.

[ksushi]

If pedroia is going to play at Fenway sooner or later he is going to step into a sink or swim situation there. Its how it works. Youkilis bouncing up and down until he was 27 was a sad thing to have happen, that is not how major league teams like to break in their players. If a trade were offered in which Pedroia was the center piece of a deal that brought us John Smoltz I would pull the trigger if I were Theo. If Pedroia were in my system in a year from now (I'm still Theo) he is my second basemen and I would let Loretta walk. I do love Loretta but I love Bill Mueller too and I understand why he got let go. I will understand when Loretta gets let go.

 

Ok, done being Theo.

[a700hitter]

If pedroia is going to play at Fenway sooner or later he is going to step into a sink or swim situation there. Its how it works. Youkilis bouncing up and down until he was 27 was a sad thing to have happen, that is not how major league teams like to break in their players. If a trade were offered in which Pedroia was the center piece of a deal that brought us John Smoltz I would pull the trigger if I were Theo. If Pedroia were in my system in a year from now (I'm still Theo) he is my second basemen and I would let Loretta walk. I do love Loretta but I love Bill Mueller too and I understand why he got let go. I will understand when Loretta gets let go.

 

Ok, done being Theo.

Mueller had chronically bad knees. Loretta has no such physical problems. I see no problem with the way Youk was broken in. The up and down to AAA last year was frustrating for him, but his ML exposure and a good ST made it apparent that he was ready for the full time job. I am not so sure that he could have handled a full time job in '04 or '05 either offensively or defensively. I don't think you realize how much his game has progressed in the laqst couple of years, and his sporadic ML exposure no doubt helped his development. I'd think Pedroia should be eased in before he starts.

[MC Hammer]

I doubt they will get picks for Loretta. Tony G is the same player with more pop, and nobody wanted to give up picks for him when he was offered arbitration as a type-A last offseason.

ORS I usually agree, or at least respect your opinions, but to say that Tony G and Mark are the same player is just silly. I was one of the biggest Tony G supporters on this board, and I don't think we would have even been a playoff team without him last year, but even I refuse to make that claim.

 

I'm not sure exactly what about their numbers leads you to believe they're the same player, give or take a little pop.

 

Career numbers

BA

Loretta - .302

Tony G - .267

OBP

Loretta - .365

Tony G - .335

SLG

Loretta - .407

Tony G - .395

 

Loretta has made 78 errors in 1321 innings where as Tony G has made 73 in 742 innnings.

 

So I'm not sure which way you analyzed this, but I can't seem to see how these two are the same player in any way.

[See Red]

ORS I usually agree, or at least respect your opinions, but to say that Tony G and Mark are the same player is just silly. I was one of the biggest Tony G supporters on this board, and I don't think we would have even been a playoff team without him last year, but even I refuse to make that claim.

 

I'm not sure exactly what about their numbers leads you to believe they're the same player, give or take a little pop.

 

Career numbers

BA

Loretta - .302

Tony G - .267

OBP

Loretta - .365

Tony G - .335

SLG

Loretta - .407

Tony G - .395

 

Loretta has made 78 errors in 1321 innings where as Tony G has made 73 in 742 innnings.

 

So I'm not sure which way you analyzed this, but I can't seem to see how these two are the same player in any way.

 

I think his comparisons from from Tony G's numbers in 2005, when he was .309/.366/.425.

 

That compares very much to Loretta's numbers this year.

[MC Hammer]

I think his comparisons from from Tony G's numbers in 2005, when he was .309/.366/.425.

 

That compares very much to Loretta's numbers this year.

I guess I could understand that he had similar numbers in 2005, but teams look at more than just 1 year when deciding on a player. I think a players career line is taken into account a lot more than what a player did for 1 season.

 

So his overall point, Tony G and Mark getting the same return, is still not true.

 

Would you pay more for a guy who's a career .300 hitter, or a career .267 hitter who hit .300 last year?