Starters

[a700hitter]

I don't really get it.....we have a good team and are in the mix right now. Baseball is really about bringing guys in when the time is right. Sometime in August is the time to get the guys back who are injured and bring up the kids who have the guns to make a difference. When the rosters expand you may see Hee-Seop Choi, Dustin Pedroia, or David Murphy be that bench player you are looking for. Willy Mo Pena will be back from the disabled list and will be as strong a player you can get off the bench.

 

Sometime later in the year we may see David Wells make a return and pitch well since he certainly has a well rested arm. Jon Lester may open some eyes and contributed stronger and earlier than people expected. Craig Hansen will probably have his control problems figured out for the stretch run.

 

.....its still freakin June. The Red Sox have a better record now than they did last season. This is not the time to get nervous and make tons of moves when you still have plenty of time to find options and let guys come around to the point where they are effective.

I am also hoping that Wells returns and Wily Mo comes back to contribute. I am still hopeful that Foulke can be a productive bullpen member. However, as we go down this list, I start to realize that there are just too many "ifs". When you have too many "ifs" the outcome is usually not good, because it is very unlikely that they will all pan out. Most, if not all, of these problems started with the FO blunders signing of Seanez and Tavarez. Many on these boards, including myself, believed those moves to be blunders. They are turning out to be worse than I expected. Not only have they caused the bullpen to be unreliable, but there has been a whole domino effect that has caused the starting pitching to be way too thin. Even if Foulke had been reliable, the Seanez/Tavarez signings have caused Papelbon to move to the bullpen by necessity; thus, weakening the starting rotation by one. I am not too critical of the Arroyo trade, but that has left the rotation two pitchers short, because Clement has not done anything to keep his spot. If the bullpen had been properly stocked in the off season, Papelbon would have moved to the pen immediately when Wells went to the DL, and it would be much easier to fill one vacant spot temporarily or to live with Clement's inconsistency. There is no chance that Papelbon can move into the rotation, and I think it is necessary to get an experienced consistent starter to offset the inconsistent Clement. They are two pitchers short in the pen, and that needs to be addressed before they blow out both Papelbon and Timlin. I don't think Theo can sit around and hope the pieces fall in the right place and the problems correct themselves. I don't see it happening. I think he needs to sacrifice some prospects to get the needed pieces.

[RoyNHSox]

Most, if not all, of these problems started with the FO blunders signing of Seanez and Tavarez. Many on these boards, including myself, believed those moves to be blunders. They are turning out to be worse than I expected. Not only have they caused the bullpen to be unreliable, but there has been a whole domino effect that has caused the starting pitching to be way too thin.

 

In some respect I think the converse is true. Because of the inconsistency of the starting pitching and the inability to go at least 7 innings, this has caused an extra burden on the bullpen. The pen arms are seeing more work than maybe they should. JMO…

[a700hitter]

In some respect I think the converse is true. Because of the inconsistency of the starting pitching and the inability to go at least 7 innings, this has caused an extra burden on the bullpen. The pen arms are seeing more work than maybe they should. JMO…

I don't disagree with you. These very bad offseaon moves have set up this very bad cycle -- bad bullpen causing starter to be moved to the pen thus weakening the rotation, and weakened rotation has caused strain on already bad bullpen resulting in spiraling bad results.

[ksushi]

Wasn't it 4 ER in 6?

 

Wake has been the second best starter after Schilling, but in a game where we needed him to pitch really well, he was markedly average. That, to me, is disappointing.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Wake. But he was sort of disappointing last night. Doesn't help that the offense continued to struggle as well.

 

Nope, but even 4 ER is enough to keep a team in a game. Thats not a bad output, but wake gave up 3 ER and one more unearned. That is a game you win.

 

http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=globe&page=mlb/scores/final/boxscore.aspx?GAMEID=16927

[TheKilo]

Nope, but even 4 ER is enough to keep a team in a game. Thats not a bad output, but wake gave up 3 ER and one more unearned. That is a game you win.

 

http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=globe&page=mlb/scores/final/boxscore.aspx?GAMEID=16927

 

 

Game he should win, but didn't get run support (what else is new?)

 

My point was with the team in the funk they've been in they probably needed a little more from Wake, not the status quo. That's what makes it disappointing.

[a700hitter]

Nope, but even 4 ER is enough to keep a team in a game. Thats not a bad output, but wake gave up 3 ER and one more unearned. That is a game you win.

 

http://146.145.120.3/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=globe&page=mlb/scores/final/boxscore.aspx?GAMEID=16927

It should be good enough to win, except that Francona has more often than not saddled Wakefield with an offensive lineup that features two or three weak bench players.

[ksushi]

It should be good enough to win, except that Francona has more often than not saddled Wakefield with an offensive lineup that features two or three weak bench players.

 

That my friend may be the truest thing you have said in months. Now I like Francona... most of the time. The past few days have been tough to like him though. Our bullpen would be in better shape if he used Delcarmen more ( I think Delcarmen has great stuff and I attribute his inconsistent command to the cob webs he gets sitting on that bullpen bench for stretches). Our record would be better if we didn't put a AAA lineup out every now and then. I have no problem with working guys in, but this is a team that is expected to win a division so lets not give away one game a week by piling all the bench players in at once. What is next? Bring your daughter to work day, all the players can have their daughters start at their position. I really don't like that on days when Wake starts, Mirabelli catches and while Tek isn't swinging so well he is better then Belli so thats one hole already but then he piles in Harris and subs out Loretta infavor of Cora, lets Snow take first and gives Lowell the day off. Its nuts.

[a700hitter]

That my friend may be the truest thing you have said in months. Now I like Francona... most of the time. The past few days have been tough to like him though. Our bullpen would be in better shape if he used Delcarmen more ( I think Delcarmen has great stuff and I attribute his inconsistent command to the cob webs he gets sitting on that bullpen bench for stretches). Our record would be better if we didn't put a AAA lineup out every now and then. I have no problem with working guys in, but this is a team that is expected to win a division so lets not give away one game a week by piling all the bench players in at once. What is next? Bring your daughter to work day, all the players can have their daughters start at their position. I really don't like that on days when Wake starts, Mirabelli catches and while Tek isn't swinging so well he is better then Belli so thats one hole already but then he piles in Harris and subs out Loretta infavor of Cora, lets Snow take first and gives Lowell the day off. Its nuts.

They can't afford to be giving away games pitched by one of their established major league pitchers, because they are at a disadvantage with the minor leaguers in the 4th and 5th slots.

[Beckett95]

What Zito and Willis will cost is completely out of range when you look at what the sox will be willing to pay. They will both cost you Lester AND Hansen. No doubt about that. Probably Ellsbury or Pedroia and some lower level guys like Bowden or Soto. No thanks. An attainable guy that can fill the 4 slot is John Thompson. Clement and Bucholz or Clement and Alvarez can realistically get done and net you a guy like Thompson.

 

thomson was placed on the DL today

 

Braves placed RHP John Thomson on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to June 15, with a finger blister.

Replacing Thomson is Lance Cormier, who will start Saturday in place of Horacio Ramirez (head). Thomson shouldn't miss more than two or three starts. Ramirez could move into his spot next time through. Jun. 16 - 8:06 pm et

[mar_022]

I read yesterday that Torii Hunter would waive his no trade clause if the REd Sox or Cubs agreed on a trade with the twins. Hunter could be the big bat ANaheim is looking for, and a 3-way deal could be possible here, IMO. I'm not sure if the twins would give up hunter just yet, but if they slide further out of contention in the stacked central, who knows...

 

Any ideas?

[SCM33]

I read yesterday that Torii Hunter would waive his no trade clause if the REd Sox or Cubs agreed on a trade with the twins. Hunter could be the big bat ANaheim is looking for, and a 3-way deal could be possible here, IMO. I'm not sure if the twins would give up hunter just yet, but if they slide further out of contention in the stacked central, who knows...

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Well...Hunter would have to waive his no trade clause twice...once with Boston, then once with ANH...then ANH would have to agree to trade for Hunter, and they would give them Hunter, Anderson, Vlad, Erstad, Rivera and occasionally Salmon as OF's. I am willing to bet they are looking for more of a big bat at 1B.

[RoyNHSox]

Any idea how the Sox will make room on the roster to bring up another starter (Snyder, maybe)? Clement was put on the DL to make room for Kapler so there are only 11 pitchers right now. Willie Harris might be the likely choice be he’s out of options.

[TheKilo]

I thought Snyder pitched pretty good today. He had a good curveball, and he hit spots with his fastball most of the time.

 

 

NOW

 

 

I don't think he's a savior. He needs to get ahead of hitters, or he's forced to throw what look like BP fastballs. I do think he could be an OK 5th starter. I think at the very least he's earned another look.

[Anuj09]

well i thought he was solid and will be better than Clement. Hes a lot cheaper and younger too

[ksushi]

Hey, I love guys off the garbage heap. One teams trash often is another teams treasure. I have no qualms with snyder so long as he can get outs.

[Beckett95]

I know this may seem far fetched, but what about trading for Ervin Santana. Ive read in a lot of places, that if Colon can come back and be effective they would move him. Imagine having him, beckett, paps and lester in our rotation for the next 5+ years possibly.

 

what about Willy Mo and Bucholz for Santana and Nick Gorneault?

[yankeessuck013]

well tampa is talking a crawford for santana deal, and i don't think we could match that.

[Beckett95]

well tampa is talking a crawford for santana deal, and i don't think we could match that.

They dont need Crawford, they need a power bat in the middle of their order. The Rays also want Brandon Wood included in the deal, which most likely wont happen.

 

And with Gathright being traded, T.B. is going to need Crawford for a couple more years if they ever want to be successful. There future OF should be Crawford/Baldelli/Young.

 

WMP and Buchholz for Santana and Gorneault would be good for both sides and wouldnt hurt the Sox in the long run and definetely help for this year. I know WMP is supposedly our starting RF next year, but i think Trot deserves the spot next year and i hope he gets signed for 2-3 years. After that, we have Luis Soto or Jason Place to take over in RF.

[a700hitter]

well tampa is talking a crawford for santana deal, and i don't think we could match that.

Tampa would be crazy to do that. I would never trade an everyday all star for any pitcher, especially a largely unproven pitcher.

[ksushi]

The one thing Tampa needs is pitching, the one thing they have plenty of depth in is OFer's so I would think that would be a great move for Tampa.

[a700hitter]

The one thing Tampa needs is pitching, the one thing they have plenty of depth in is OFer's so I would think that would be a great move for Tampa.

How many all star young OFs do they have? Crawford will just get better.

[ksushi]

Crawford, Baldelli (AAA), Delmon Young who is a monster also in AAA, Huff, Gomes, and Gathwright. They can afford to lose one in order to bring in another young starter. Man, when they get any kind of payroll increase, if they get one more potential frontline starter to go with Kazmir and Edwin Jackson... look out in a couple of years.

[Cocos Disciples]

Edwin Jackson's value has dropped off a lot lately.

[Anuj09]

that was stupid of them to trade Beaaz

[a700hitter]

Crawford, Baldelli (AAA), Delmon Young who is a monster also in AAA, Huff, Gomes, and Gathwright. They can afford to lose one in order to bring in another young starter. Man, when they get any kind of payroll increase, if they get one more potential frontline starter to go with Kazmir and Edwin Jackson... look out in a couple of years.

So, you trade the one legit All Star of the group. I'd rather part with any two of the others. Trading Crawford for an unproven pitcher would have a good possibility of being this generations trade of Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio. At least Broglio was an established pitcher with 18 and 20 win seasons under his belt.