Pedro is 5 - 0 I'm eating my words...

[redsoxrules]

i was looking at the schedual and if everything stays the same for rotations pedro will pitch on the 28 at fenway and i think it would be against beckett

[ImissPedro]

i was looking at the schedual and if everything stays the same for rotations pedro will pitch on the 28 at fenway and i think it would be against beckett

 

Definatly the most anticipated game of the year

[Mr Crunchy]

i guess you havent seen his other starts this year cause he's only had 2 bad outing this year

 

i loved pedro martinez when he pitched here

he was and will always be a legend

hes now pitching in the B league against inferior competetion and lets not make any mistake about this

 

he left for the money in ny after he made 90,000,000.00 pitching here

his #s since he got hurt got worse and worse in the american league

he could no longer beat the yankees at all

 

why pay him 16M per when baltimore ny and even tampa were hitting him hard??

he doesnt see anything remotely like these offenses in the national league

it was a business move

sure i get sick watching him pitch in ny,we all do i think.

and i do miss the man,terribly,ive seen him pitch live and it was like watching marvin hagler fight,flawless execution,almost beyond human.

but it made no sense to sign him for 4 years when his next pitch may indeed be his last...

[Teddyballgame10]

Tonight proves it he wouldnt be the same pitcher in the AL. I would have loved them to bring him back but i dont fret over him doing so well in the NL b/c it doesnt even compare the the AL.

[schillingouttheks]

I don't think this is a sign of him not being able to pitch in the AL. His mind was somewhere else tonight because he was pitching in Boston. I mean the botched double play basically was the story of the night for him.

[See Red]

I don't think this is a sign of him not being able to pitch in the AL. His mind was somewhere else tonight because he was pitching in Boston. I mean the botched double play basically was the story of the night for him.

 

Agreed. First off, it's just one game. Second off, this lineup of ours is redhot. Third off, all the emotions of this game... tough to hold this start against him.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Tonight proves it he wouldnt be the same pitcher in the AL. I would have loved them to bring him back but i dont fret over him doing so well in the NL b/c it doesnt even compare the the AL.

 

I'd take him over Jason Johnson, David Wells, Matt Clement, Kyle Snyder, David Pauley, Lenny DiNardo.....need I go on?

 

....even for the money I would take him back in a second. One of the greatest pitchers of all time and will continue to have success.

[ImissPedro]

tonight doesn't change the fact his legacy is made, future hall of famer as it is, regrettably he no longer dons a redsox uniform... IMISSPEDRO

[a700hitter]

I'd take him over Jason Johnson, David Wells, Matt Clement, Kyle Snyder, David Pauley, Lenny DiNardo.....need I go on?

 

....even for the money I would take him back in a second. One of the greatest pitchers of all time and will continue to have success.

It was a huge mistake to let him walk.

[jsinger121]

It was a huge mistake to let him walk.

 

After seeing what an AL offense did to him last night I can bet you that would have happened more often than not if he said in the AL because frankly his stuff is not that good anymore. He is not the old Pedro and Pedro made the right move going to the NL to extend his career and to pad his stats further.

[ORS]

Right, because the 7 IP with no runs allowed against the Yankees was against an NL team. Or how about the quality start against Baltimore, another NL team. Pedro can still pitch in this league. I think last night is a horrible example of his ability in this league because of the situation. He was distracted, and you could tell it.

 

I originally thought that Petey was on edge of a steep downward slope in the '04 offseason. It was the first year he'd been hit pretty hard, and I thought the shoulder would only get worse. However, Petey adjusted very well and became a pitcher after being a hurler. I was wrong there.

 

The main reason I've come around to seeing this as a collosal blunder is the cost of his replacements. Beckett cost Hanley and Anibal (I love the Beckett acquisition, but maybe they aren't in the market there if they had Pedro last year). Clement + Johnson + Snyder + DiNardo + Pauley + bringing up Lester earlier than you'd want are probaby more expensive than Petey's salary. Wells is wasted salary at this point. And, let's not forget the flier they had to take on Wade Miller last year.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

ORS, don't beat yourself too hard. Yes, he's adjusted well to the "pitcher" mode. But the biggest concern was the tail end of the contract.

[Mr Crunchy]

pedro is done as an american league pitcher

he was done late in 04 when even tampa was lighting him up

the spacious nl parks and banjo hitting lineups are perfect for him

 

the only thing that suprised me about last nite was how high he was leaving his changeups and how badly his heat has fallen and

the fact that the sox didnt hang more on him

he was throwing meatballs,his fastball is a f***ing joke these days and the only thing that gets him by is lots of movement,which he had none of last evening.

[a700hitter]

pedro is done as an american league pitcher

he was done late in 04 when even tampa was lighting him up

Despite one of his worst career starts against the hottest team and offense in baseball, his interleague stats in 3 starts are:

 

17 inn 9 ER 19 Hits 14 K's 4.76 ERA

 

Terrible for Pedro, but not that terrible for most AL pitchers, plus these stats are skewed by an emotional start against an offensive juggernaut. He clearly was not prepared to pitch last night.

 

Last year in 4 interleague starts, including 2 starts against the Yankees and one against the Angels his stats were:

 

28 inn 25 hits 10 runs 8 BB 19 K's 3.21 ERA

 

I'd say that's pretty good. How good would these stats have been if he had faced the AL Central. Even the limited appearances to AL teams since he left the AL don't support your theory. I'd be happy to have him on the mound to start any big game.

[Mr Crunchy]

are you considering the fact that the yankees used their B lineup that saturday billy wagner melted down or that baltimore isnt the same team they were when he pitched here??

i have vivid memories of him getting killed in toronto

i also remember his struggles in baltimore and tampa

they were real

 

when was the last time he was dominant against the yankees as a member of the sox??

 

heres what i see

15-10 with a 4.00 era and thats being optimistic and generous

what he did last season is about the best you can expect and its only gonna get worse for him

he's not breaking 90 on the gun anymore and if thats the case hes certainly not worth 16M per this year,never mind the next 30 months that the mets own his ass

[a700hitter]

He would also have starts against KC. He would eat up free swinging teams like Detroit. He usually owned Tampa. The '04 September starts were aberration. He was probably a bit worn down. He'd do pretty well against the A's and Twins as well. Four or five starts against the O's would give him about 4 or 5 wins. You ask when he last dominated the Yankees. This could have been the year with their weakened lineup. He was always competitive with the Yanks, and I can't remember them dominating him. I don't see Pedro giving up dingers at the pace that Schilling and Beckett are giving them up. He is still a top pitcher. The hitters in either league will confirm that for you.

[Mr Crunchy]

look

dont get me wrong here

i do love this guy and all he brought to the game

who can forget when he sent jetsey and soriano to the emergency ward on 2consecutive pitches or the dusting of zimmer or the 100s of other things he did for us.

he was the best pitcher ive ever seen when he was in his prime

he owned the al west

he owned everybody for that matter but he just dont have what it takes to be a big time stud in the al east anymore

he couldnt beat the yankees we dont need him at 15-16M per thats my only bone of contention here

[Teddyballgame10]

I love Pedro but im just saying the Red Sox front office made the right move here he wouldnt last in the AL. I remember everystart seeming like it was a struggle for him in 04. He is better of in the NL and maybe wede have a much better pitcing staff now with a 1-2-3 punch of him, curt, and beckette but you are forgetting we'de have him for another 2 years were he'de have basically nothing left. And we'de also be paying a huge contract unlike the kids we throw out there who will eventully be replaced.

[ImissPedro]

He'll be 37 at the end of his tenure with the mets, It was a risk well worth taking for FO.

[schillingouttheks]

I love Pedro but im just saying the Red Sox front office made the right move here he wouldnt last in the AL. I remember everystart seeming like it was a struggle for him in 04. He is better of in the NL and maybe wede have a much better pitcing staff now with a 1-2-3 punch of him, curt, and beckette but you are forgetting we'de have him for another 2 years were he'de have basically nothing left. And we'de also be paying a huge contract unlike the kids we throw out there who will eventully be replaced.

Pedro was trying to over power batters with his low velocity. He's since learned how to deal with his loss of velocity, and he's still a dominant pitcher. If he had learned in '04 what he learned early last season, you wouldn't have seen what you saw. Big whoop, the NL has a pitcher instead of a DH. There's still 8 batters that can hit the ball in a National League batting order. He has a WHIP of 1.00, a BAA of .202, and a 111/28 K/BB ratio in 101.2 IP. I don't care what league he's in, he's still striking batters out, and batters aren't hitting him well. Period. Last night he wasn't ready to pitch mentally. It's understandable, I don't understand how you could watch him last night and think anything was working for him. Last night's one of those games where your emotions TOTALLY impact how you play. Last night's showing should be thrown out the window, there's NO way that last night was a good representation of him against AL teams. It was a mistake letting him go.

[Mr Crunchy]

it was a great move for the mets

we lost a bit of swagger when petey left town

the mets got it in return

all the dominicans in washington heights who were sox fans 2 years ago now are mets fans

as much as we follow the name on the front of the jersey many dominicans follow the name on the back,especially if its martinez

if nothing else omar minaya put fire in nys latin community with the petey delgado and beltran picups and its paying off in both the standings and the bottom line

too bad the park is as ugly as the name of the area

flushing??

ya

[ahhchon]

interesting how fast people jump of pedro's ship because he had a bad start against an al east team.

 

i'm sure the sox front office did plenty of scouting to make sure they didn't look like fools. lets get it right though. yesteryday's game was pedro's WORSTE start this year. his other bad start was against the dodgers.. that's one bad start every EIGHT games. he picked a bad night to not have his A game.

 

the mistake with ortiz's ground ball didn't help, then lasting's error put him down the drain.

you know you're having a bad night when alex gonz hits a homer off of you.

 

i was at the game, it was a good game but i sure would have loved to see a great pitching duel into the 9th.

 

pedro will finish the season with an era in the low 3's.

 

john

[Mr Crunchy]

with the mlb package i never miss his starts

hes a limited pitcher for a variety of reasons and his contract length is 1 of them

they still are on the hook for 2.5 more years

hes a 100 pitch a game man now tops and its too risky to push him

[a700hitter]

Pedro was trying to over power batters with his low velocity. He's since learned how to deal with his loss of velocity, and he's still a dominant pitcher. If he had learned in '04 what he learned early last season, you wouldn't have seen what you saw. Big whoop, the NL has a pitcher instead of a DH. There's still 8 batters that can hit the ball in a National League batting order. He has a WHIP of 1.00, a BAA of .202, and a 111/28 K/BB ratio in 101.2 IP. I don't care what league he's in, he's still striking batters out, and batters aren't hitting him well. Period. Last night he wasn't ready to pitch mentally. It's understandable, I don't understand how you could watch him last night and think anything was working for him. Last night's one of those games where your emotions TOTALLY impact how you play. Last night's showing should be thrown out the window, there's NO way that last night was a good representation of him against AL teams. It was a mistake letting him go.

He is arguable the best pitcher in the last 40 years. He was not injured when he ended his walk year. He retired the last 14 batters he faced in a WS game. He was and is a legend. He should have been embraced by the FO for the remainder of his career. The FO outsmarted itself by making some bet on his health.

[RedSoxRooter]

pedro will finish the season with an era in the low 3's.

john

 

And in the AL East it would be in the low to mid 4's... I still think it was a good move for both Pedro and the Sox to split. Good for the Mets too. And Pedro, who made out the best of all three of them seems to be the only one still upset about it.

 

I watched a replay of the ovations Pedro got in his return last night and all I kept wondering was what the Mets players were thinking. They must have been like "dude, why the hell did you leave all this behind to come to NY? You're like a f***ing god here."

[a700hitter]

And Pedro, who made out the best of all three of them seems to be the only one still upset about it.

You can't blame the guy. He is a premier showman in addition to being a world class athlete, and for someone that loves baseball as much as Pedro, he truly appreciated how Red Sox Nation is so baseball absorbed and obsessed. I have lived most of my life in NY around Yankee and Mets fans, and NY does not come within 100 miles of Red Sox Nation in that regard.

[ahhchon]

hes a 100 pitch a game man now tops and its too risky to push him

 

you do realize that 100% of the pitchers out there are 100 pitch men right? every now and then guys will throw more than 100 but the way managers are pulling pitchers off the mound there are only a few that are allowed to go into the upper 120's.

 

john

[Cocos Disciples]

you do realize that 100% of the pitchers out there are 100 pitch men right? every now and then guys will throw more than 100 but the way managers are pulling pitchers off the mound there are only a few that are allowed to go into the upper 120's.

 

john

 

That's why Livan Hernandez is such a hot commoditie, because he can go that extra 20-30 pitches and not have wear and tear on him.

[Mr Crunchy]

you do realize that 100% of the pitchers out there are 100 pitch men right? every now and then guys will throw more than 100 but the way managers are pulling pitchers off the mound there are only a few that are allowed to go into the upper 120's.

 

john

 

 

of course

and how many of them are getting 54,000,000.00 for 4 years??

hes a 6 inning man,7 against pittburg and the cubs

despite all the money and glory he gets he still needs to rely on the chad bradfords of the world for a couple innings a nite to get W's and this may explain why his win totals arent all that impressive despite his Ks and decent era.

[SuperManny]

That's why Livan Hernandez is such a hot commoditie' date=' because he can go that extra 20-30 pitches and not have wear and tear on him.[/quote']

 

Yeah that would be useful if he could stay in games long enough to even reach 100 pitches. Nothing like a 5.64 ERA, wouldn't you want a RP in if they have an ERA under 5 since they are a better pitcher? Livan's most recent games are 6, 1.2, 6.2, 7, 6. He's not going 8 or 9 innings ever nevermind consistantly. This year Livan has pitched 10 more innings than Pedro with an ERA 2 runs higher.