"Changing Dynamic"

[yeszir]

I've been perusing a certain well known yankees message board, and plastered all over the place I see references to a certain changing dynamic between the Red Sox and the yankees. I know we're only 3-1 against them and we still have however many games left to play, but I figured it was worth discussing since yankee fans seem so preoccupied with it.

 

Essentially they're arguing that the Red Sox are now winning games that the yankees used to. Last night was a prime example. I'm trying to stay as far away from this curse thing as possible, but it now seems that whatever used to happen to the Red Sox (star players going down, untimely errors, clutch hits against) is now happening to the yankees. It's too early to make assertions yet, but it seems like the Red Sox have the upper hand this season, at least in the early going.

 

Will this drive the yankees to make some ridiculous "win-now" trade which decimates their farm system? Will the Red Sox collapse a la pre-2004? What caused this paradigm shift? How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

[jsinger121]

My Yankee friend says that ever since the Yankees banned beer sales in the bleachers they have not won a title.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

I've been perusing a certain well known yankees message board, and plastered all over the place I see references to a certain changing dynamic between the Red Sox and the yankees. I know we're only 3-1 against them and we still have however many games left to play, but I figured it was worth discussing since yankee fans seem so preoccupied with it.

 

Essentially they're arguing that the Red Sox are now winning games that the yankees used to. Last night was a prime example. I'm trying to stay as far away from this curse thing as possible, but it now seems that whatever used to happen to the Red Sox (star players going down, untimely errors, clutch hits against) is now happening to the yankees. It's too early to make assertions yet, but it seems like the Red Sox have the upper hand this season, at least in the early going.

 

Will this drive the yankees to make some ridiculous "win-now" trade which decimates their farm system? Will the Red Sox collapse a la pre-2004? What caused this paradigm shift? How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

 

Wow. Let's see how many discussion points did you just open up ? Most talk show hosts would be envious. First of the Yes board is a joke. Quality NY fans have come here, or will and I don't see that kind of reaction from them yet. Come backs are usually a combination a good / great bull pen and good hitting. I still maintain that good/great pitching will cancel out good/great hitting. Currently, I'd say that the Sox have a superior bullpen. Also I'm not quite sure if we're looking at each team's Y-T-D record or just head-to -head. As far as injuries go, I believe it is a combination of two factors. The first, obviously is just luck. The second is a pet theory of mine. If one considers hard trying players ( dirtdogs ). They have a tendency to dive, crash into walls and other players, slide head first, ect. They also accumulate a history of injuries. With the factor of age considered, both the frequency and rehabilitation time will increase. As far as George goes, he is well known to be over reactive.

[americantrotter]

I think this is the inevitable outcome of the Sox winning a championship.

 

I myself am just not as nervous about the Yankees anymore. Toronto and Cleveland worry me more. Maybe that negative energy now attaches itself to the Yankees fans, as they face 5 seasons without a title, and the horror that was 2004.

[yeszir]

I think this is the inevitable outcome of the Sox winning a championship.

 

I myself am just not as nervous about the Yankees anymore. Toronto and Cleveland worry me more. Maybe that negative energy now attaches itself to the Yankees fans, as they face 5 seasons without a title, and the horror that was 2004.

Well Toronto is going to Hell in a handbasket fast, so they really don't worry me as much. Aside from Halladay their pitching is a joke.

 

And SFoC, the board was http://www.nyyfans.com, not YES. You couldn't pay me to read YES, and I doubt I would find any interesting discussion going on there. Blech.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

Well Toronto is going to Hell in a handbasket fast, so they really don't worry me as much. Aside from Halladay their pitching is a joke.

 

And SFoC, the board was http://www.nyyfans.com, not YES. You couldn't pay me to read YES, and I doubt I would find any interesting discussion going on there. Blech.

Sorry, but you didn't specify.

[He Hate Me]

The Sox won last night's game because this year you have a superior bullpen. Our short relivers suck ass except for Mo. As long as Pap continues his success in there with 2 former closers in Timlin and Foulke setting him up, your team will probably win most of the games that we used to win.

 

That's my baseball theory anyway. I still have confidence in my club, lastyear they looked dead in the water compared to the Sox but somehow we manged to scrap out the division. I think this year might be a similar situation. My only fear is that Eric Duncan will be dealt for Soriano soon.

[RoundingThird]

What we have here is a clear case of "Manny being Manny"-dom. Let me explain...

 

There comes a point in every season where the Yankees hit a rough patch or a foreseen rough patch. Every year, people react to this by bringing up all the possiblities. "This could be the end of the Yankee dominance!" "They'll be lucky to get 95 wins!" "George is gonna panic, do some crazy trades, and then they're screwed for years to come!"

 

However, every year they seem to get it together enough to push Boston to the 2 spot and come away with the AL East. While I may not fear the Yankees as much as I once have, I am in no way comfortable in their misfortune. When it comes down to it, much like when Manny is being Manny... the Yankees will always be the Yankees. They may not make some of the plays they should, they may slump at the plate or on the field...but when it comes down to it, they are still one of the best teams in baseball and no one should feel comfortable.

[NoPepper]

What caused this paradigm shift?

 

The curse of A-Rod. I put this curse on them.

 

I did this back when A-Rod didn't come to Boston, and elected to go to NY instead the same year.

[ManyOrtiz]

I think the Yanks are in trouble at the moment. Matsui is a great player and the lack of depth there will hurt them. They will make a run later in the season after George deals for an all-star outfielder or perhaps Torre moves Aaron Small to outfield and he hits 40 HRs for them. I do not feel safe at all.

[jsinger121]

The question is do the Yanks panic and clean out there farm system (Hughes, Duncan, Tabata, etc.) for someone like Bobby Abreu. It all boggles down to George. Cashman I would think would not part with those players.

[Manny Goes Boom]

The Sox won last night's game because this year you have a superior bullpen. Our short relivers suck ass except for Mo. As long as Pap continues his success in there with 2 former closers in Timlin and Foulke setting him up, your team will probably win most of the games that we used to win.

 

That's my baseball theory anyway. I still have confidence in my club, lastyear they looked dead in the water compared to the Sox but somehow we manged to scrap out the division. I think this year might be a similar situation. My only fear is that Eric Duncan will be dealt for Soriano soon.

 

That's what I said in the game thread last night but 26 to 6 shot that idea down. (except I didn't say who you guys would trade, I just said I wouldn't be suprised if you got Alfonso again). You think it's possible too?

[americantrotter]

I dont fear the Yankees anymore, even when fully healthy. They are just a good baseball team I happen to hate. That doesnt mean that I see them dropping out ofb the race. They will be very much in it, as always.

[RedRuffing15]

I'm not nervous, but I am worried. I don't want to see any superstars coming in though(Hunter, Jones, Soriano) or anything like that, becuase when the starters do come back..look at that dilema.

 

Though it does seem luck has switched, the Yankees have had good starts shot down by the Sox and vis versa in the past, so well have to see how it plays out.

But the past 2 seasons...if it was like 1 big game...its been looking like we need bottem of the ninth game winners, if you get my point)

[mtbykr]

I'm not nervous, but I am worried. I don't want to see any superstars coming in though(Hunter, Jones, Soriano) or anything like that, becuase when the starters do come back..look at that dilema.

 

Though it does seem luck has switched, the Yankees have had good starts shot down by the Sox and vis versa in the past, so well have to see how it plays out.

But the past 2 seasons...if it was like 1 big game...its been looking like we need bottem of the ninth game winners, if you get my point)

 

 

Great point! I think the yanks are more apt to find a stop-gap until they comeback. Also let's not forget that sheff is probably only gone for 2 weeks and then they are just short matsui. I don't think they are going to panic, i think they will wait and see what happens. Of course this all depends on the extent of matsui's injury---it could be a lot worse than we all know!

[He Hate Me]

That's what I said in the game thread last night but 26 to 6 shot that idea down. (except I didn't say who you guys would trade, I just said I wouldn't be suprised if you got Alfonso again). You think it's possible too?

 

Definetely. Arod's playing in Duncan's natural spot. Soriano's gonna be a FA next year, and its a sexy name media wise. It has all the makings of a typical Steinbrenner-Tampa Bay move.

 

That being said, when Cashman re-upped, greater control over personnel decisions was one of his sticking points. This will be a oood test of that promise by George. I definetely think it's in the realm of possibilities though.

[Cityofchampions33]

I've been perusing a certain well known yankees message board, and plastered all over the place I see references to a certain changing dynamic between the Red Sox and the yankees. I know we're only 3-1 against them and we still have however many games left to play, but I figured it was worth discussing since yankee fans seem so preoccupied with it.

 

Essentially they're arguing that the Red Sox are now winning games that the yankees used to. Last night was a prime example. I'm trying to stay as far away from this curse thing as possible, but it now seems that whatever used to happen to the Red Sox (star players going down, untimely errors, clutch hits against) is now happening to the yankees. It's too early to make assertions yet, but it seems like the Red Sox have the upper hand this season, at least in the early going.

 

Will this drive the yankees to make some ridiculous "win-now" trade which decimates their farm system? Will the Red Sox collapse a la pre-2004? What caused this paradigm shift? How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

 

I don't know, but lately our team, no matter what the personality, can get serious at any time needed and grit out wins in big games. I really like this year's dirt-dog, get down to business type peronality. I mean i said at the begining of the eya how we brought in a lot of Nixon/Schilling type players. Even Manny is serious, or at last for now.

I mean this is a much better fundamental team that can win with the little things, whether it be good pitching, dazzling defense, or explosive offense from time to time. If we can get everyone hot at once, we will be utterly invinceable, and it's not inconceivable that this can't happen.I mean right now Lowell, Youk, Loretta, Papi, and Manny are all hittin the ball well, if they stay this way when Coco comes ack, we'll have a blanced lineup 1 through 9 and be even better. Only thing we really ened is Beckett and Schill to wake up, which Beckett did somewhat against the Yanks.

[Goalstopper]

Maybe the curse has been reversed and the Yanks won't win for 81 more years.it shall be called the curse of the Beer Sales I can't believe i wrote that.

[Cocos Disciples]

every teams time comes and goes. yanks just ended, sox is in the middle.

[TheRivernator]

for the most part, the sox have taken the fear out of facing the yankees. Now both teams win games that they shouldnt and it is no longer one sided. This is gonna be a good season, and btw, the yankees and sox are the creme of the crop, we'll both be there this yr....

[Cocos Disciples]

btw, rivs, nice avatar

[TheRivernator]

btw' date=' rivs, nice avatar[/quote']

 

thanks, Joe blew that game and I am still pissed. Instead of being one up on your guys we could be 3....

[mtbykr]

thanks, Joe blew that game and I am still pissed. Instead of being one up on your guys we could be 3....

 

and the delusion continues! Right now we are tied. I know you want to look only at the loss column, but that means you are assuming a yanks win in the game that hasn't been played yet!

[TheRivernator]

seriously, I shouldnt have to explain the logic of following the loss column to every single person that asks. Losses are games that cannot be made up in the standings. Wins can be. If you trail somebody by X number of games in the win column, that only means that they have played more games than you. If you trail somebody by X number of games in the loss column, then that means that you cannot get those games back and you therefore need help to overtake them. Put it this way, the easiest way to determine who is in first is by going like this. If the yankees and sox both win all their remaining games (I know impossible and improbable) who would be in first. Thats how I look at it. Your loss is a game that you cannot make up and you require help to get that game back. The loss column is the way to go, period....

[redsoxrules]

seriously, I shouldnt have to explain the logic of following the loss column to every single person that asks. Losses are games that cannot be made up in the standings. Wins can be. If you trail somebody by X number of games in the win column, that only means that they have played more games than you. If you trail somebody by X number of games in the loss column, then that means that you cannot get those games back and you therefore need help to overtake them. Put it this way, the easiest way to determine who is in first is by going like this. If the yankees and sox both win all their remaining games (I know impossible and improbable) who would be in first. Thats how I look at it. Your loss is a game that you cannot make up and you require help to get that game back. The loss column is the way to go, period....

 

its f***ing mid may

[TheRivernator]

its f***ing mid may

 

I know. It is just how I have always determined who is in front and who is trailing. Thats all....

[redsoxrules]

I know. It is just how I have always determined who is in front and who is trailing. Thats all....

 

yeah but riv,who's to say the yanks are gonna win those 2 games in hand?

[TheRivernator]

yeah but riv,who's to say the yanks are gonna win those 2 games in hand?

 

Nobody is. The fact remains, though, that you will need the yankees to lose to get even with them. Hence, if a team needs help, then they are not in the lead. I know it is kinda weird, but loss column is the way all the analysts go by and I think they use it for a good reason....

[redsoxrules]

Nobody is. The fact remains, though, that you will need the yankees to lose to get even with them. Hence, if a team needs help, then they are not in the lead. I know it is kinda weird, but loss column is the way all the analysts go by and I think they use it for a good reason....

 

if it was september id be worried about it but not now, like i said its mid may theres plenty of time to make that game up

[TheRivernator]

if it was september id be worried about it but not now, like i said its mid may theres plenty of time to make that game up

 

oh absolutely. I am only saying that we are ahead by 1 game with 130 to go. It means nothing....