Wily Mo revisited

[a700hitter]

WMP said that he had this injury last year. If he didn't do anything to break the bone this year and the bone has in fact been broken since last year would the Sox have any recourse against the Reds? It would be great if they could void the trade and get Arroyo back.

[seabeachfred]

I cannot answer that; maybe some lawyer could. I'm sure if there is anything fishy about this the Red Sox front office will be in there trying to do something about it. Stay tuned.

[CrespoBlows]

WMP said that he had this injury last year. If he didn't do anything to break the bone this year and the bone has in fact been broken since last year would the Sox have any recourse against the Reds? It would be great if they could void the trade and get Arroyo back.

 

Wouldn't matter.

 

The Red Sox didn't ask for a physical, and the Reds can claim they dealt Pena in good faith. The Red Sox have no evidence to support a tampering, or something fishey from the Reds office.

[MC Hammer]

WMP said that he had this injury last year. If he didn't do anything to break the bone this year and the bone has in fact been broken since last year would the Sox have any recourse against the Reds? It would be great if they could void the trade and get Arroyo back.

That won't happen, and I'd be highly upset if it did. No matter how well Arroyo does in the NL I'll never regret that trade.

[Mr Crunchy]

That won't happen, and I'd be highly upset if it did. No matter how well Arroyo does in the NL I'll never regret that trade.

 

does your well water come directly out of the ohio river?

[rician blast]

That won't happen, and I'd be highly upset if it did. No matter how well Arroyo does in the NL I'll never regret that trade.

 

does your well water come directly out of the ohio river?

 

bwahahahahaha! well put Mr. Crunchy.

 

MC:

 

What wins championships in baseball?

Pitching.

 

Why'd the Sox win in 2004?

Pitching

 

What did the Arroyo trade do for the Sox, before Pena was hurt?

Decreased their pitching depth, marginally increased their OF depth.

 

Was this a good trade? And to dismiss the notion that this is hindsight, I believe most of the Sox fans I'm familiar with from the BH and other forums were upset with this trade...not just the fact that they fkd Bronson...but just plain upset that a pitcher who eats innings and is under 30 was traded while fatass Wells was retained. Maybe it works out in the long-run, but I didn't like it then and I like it less now.

 

but I'm glad at least MC Hammer is happy with the trade.

[TheKilo]

bwahahahahaha! well put Mr. Crunchy.

 

MC:

 

What wins championships in baseball?

Pitching.

 

Why'd the Sox win in 2004?

Pitching

 

What did the Arroyo trade do for the Sox, before Pena was hurt?

Decreased their pitching depth, marginally increased their OF depth.

 

Was this a good trade? And to dismiss the notion that this is hindsight, I believe most of the Sox fans I'm familiar with from the BH and other forums were upset with this trade...not just the fact that they fkd Bronson...but just plain upset that a pitcher who eats innings and is under 30 was traded while fatass Wells was retained. Maybe it works out in the long-run, but I didn't like it then and I like it less now.

 

but I'm glad at least MC Hammer is happy with the trade.

 

 

Right, because Wily Mo hitting .320 when Coco was out wasn't important.

 

Face it, the only way Cincy deals Wily Mo is if we shipped out Arroyo. They weren't going to take Clement (too expensive) and they weren't going to take Wells (too old.)

 

Is it possible Theo made this trade to make the team better for the future? I know Bronson was very good for the Red Sox over the latter part of '04 and the beginning of '05, but he fell back to earth hard towards the end of last year. Plu,s he would have been the long guy out of the bullpen when the season started anyway.

 

Theo has made some huge mistakes (Renteria, Clement signings) but I don't think this trade is one of them.

[RoyNHSox]

WMP is for the future as we really weren't expecting much from him this year. His offense was a pleasant surprise and helped the team when it was needed with Coco out. I think we can only expect his bat to improve as he recovers from the surgery and can hit again completely healthy. I can't wait until he regains his health so we can watch this gifted athlete fully develop.

[Mr Crunchy]

f*** the future ok

the future is today.

schill is 40 wake is 40 clement sucked last year for the last 3 months and wells said he didnt want to pitch here...

i saw arroyo and the sox beat kevin brown(who was 5-0 at the time) and the yankees twice in a row back in 04,once in fenway once in nyc..

that goofy prick is absolutely fearless...hes the guy who drilled arod waking this team up

hes the guy who arod sissy slapped in game 6.....hes a gamer who is now contending for the cy young in the national league

 

our response to him taking the short money to stay here??

trading our most consistant pitcher from last year who signed here for the short money because he loved boston so much..and now we have mrs van buren,len dinardo and the castaways from every farm system from portland to port au prince trying to eat the 200 consistant innings arroyo gave us.

 

pena was a pleasant surprise

he did help us but we're supposed to be serious about winning a world series here

if you consider how high they were on mohr and stern,neither who really had a chance to play due to the signing of wily mo,you have to wonder what the f*** the front office is thinking about these days

i cannot believe that pena will be on this team come 7-31 with our current pitching staff.

i do believe he will be packaged for pitching becuase if we continue throwing douchebag after douchebag out there we'll be 10 out come 7-4 and it will get ugly.

[mtbykr]

f*** the future ok

the future is today.

schill is 40 wake is 40 clement sucked last year for the last 3 months and wells said he didnt want to pitch here...

i saw arroyo and the sox beat kevin brown(who was 5-0 at the time) and the yankees twice in a row back in 04,once in fenway once in nyc..

that goofy prick is absolutely fearless...hes the guy who drilled arod waking this team up

hes the guy who arod sissy slapped in game 6.....hes a gamer who is now contending for the cy young in the national league

 

our response to him taking the short money to stay here??

trading our most consistant pitcher from last year who signed here for the short money because he loved boston so much..and now we have mrs van buren,len dinardo and the castaways from every farm system from portland to port au prince trying to eat the 200 consistant innings arroyo gave us.

 

pena was a pleasant surprise

he did help us but we're supposed to be serious about winning a world series here

if you consider how high they were on mohr and stern,neither who really had a chance to play due to the signing of wily mo,you have to wonder what the f*** the front office is thinking about these days

i cannot believe that pena will be on this team come 7-31 with our current pitching staff.

i do believe he will be packaged for pitching becuase if we continue throwing douchebag after douchebag out there we'll be 10 out come 7-4 and it will get ugly.

 

 

Well unless they are going to trade him for a bag of balls, then nothing is getting done becuase he is having wrist surgery. No team is going to give the sox anything good for a guy on the DL. Cincy is not going to want to trade Bronson back here. We need to explore other options and let WMP get better. He will be here for the forseeable future!

[Mr Crunchy]

if there are no unforseen problems he'll be ready at the end of july,in time to deal.

and i do believe youre correct

nobody is going to offer much for a guy who will shatter the K record if given the ab's.

[RoyNHSox]

Given all the Sox have invested to get WMP here I doubt trading him would even be a thought at this point.

I wonder if Sox fans would cut him more slack if he hadn't been a part of the Arroyo trade.

[seabeachfred]

Strong words Crunch and I agree with a lot of what you say, but please do not give Arroyo more credit than he deserves. The fact is he NEVER beat the Yankees in the years he was with the Red Sox, NEVER, and his ERA against them was almost 6.00. Pena? I think the Red Sox are really taking a big chance with him. He could easily revert to the strikeout slob he was with the Reds and he cannot play right field in Boston. I think the Sox had better hope for a quick development from Dave Murphy, an emergence of Adam Stern or resign Trot Nixon because I really feel if Pena is a full time player he will set strikeout records that will stand the test of time. Before he got hurt he seemed to be reverting back to his Cincy habits of swinging at everything they threw at him.

[jsinger121]

David Murphy is not the future anything in Boston. Hes more of a 4th outfielder type than a starter. Jacoby Ellsbury is projected for the future in the Sox outfield.

[riverside sluggers]

f*** the future ok

the future is today.

schill is 40 wake is 40 clement sucked last year for the last 3 months and wells said he didnt want to pitch here...

i saw arroyo and the sox beat kevin brown(who was 5-0 at the time) and the yankees twice in a row back in 04,once in fenway once in nyc..

that goofy prick is absolutely fearless...hes the guy who drilled arod waking this team up

hes the guy who arod sissy slapped in game 6.....hes a gamer who is now contending for the cy young in the national league

 

our response to him taking the short money to stay here??

trading our most consistant pitcher from last year who signed here for the short money because he loved boston so much..and now we have mrs van buren,len dinardo and the castaways from every farm system from portland to port au prince trying to eat the 200 consistant innings arroyo gave us.

 

pena was a pleasant surprise

he did help us but we're supposed to be serious about winning a world series here

if you consider how high they were on mohr and stern,neither who really had a chance to play due to the signing of wily mo,you have to wonder what the f*** the front office is thinking about these days

i cannot believe that pena will be on this team come 7-31 with our current pitching staff.

i do believe he will be packaged for pitching becuase if we continue throwing douchebag after douchebag out there we'll be 10 out come 7-4 and it will get ugly.

 

Arroyo's stats against NY arent all that glamorous

 

"Mrs Van Buren"? Youre seriously taking shots at him. the same reliever who has been effective for us, and helped save yesterday's game from getting out of hand. hes going to be a quality guy out of the bullpen for us.

 

Quote me on this, youre sig if you like. Wily Mo Pena will not be traded by July 31. Its foolish to think so.

[TheKilo]

Strong words Crunch and I agree with a lot of what you say, but please do not give Arroyo more credit than he deserves. The fact is he NEVER beat the Yankees in the years he was with the Red Sox, NEVER, and his ERA against them was almost 6.00. Pena? I think the Red Sox are really taking a big chance with him. He could easily revert to the strikeout slob he was with the Reds and he cannot play right field in Boston. I think the Sox had better hope for a quick development from Dave Murphy, an emergence of Adam Stern or resign Trot Nixon because I really feel if Pena is a full time player he will set strikeout records that will stand the test of time. Before he got hurt he seemed to be reverting back to his Cincy habits of swinging at everything they threw at him.

 

 

This is the same Pena that was hitting .320 whe he went down.

 

 

Is there some possible chance he is starting to grow as a player? He started to hit the ball the other way more, etc. Old habits are hard to break, yeah, and he might have been having a relapse or something but I think WMP has a bright future in Boston.

 

 

I also think WMP gets a bad rap because he was traded for a guy who the fans loved, played guitar, and cornrowed his hair. I don't think there's this much fuss over the trade if they shipped Clement (who was better than Arroyo for the first half, and the second half was worse, although comparable) or Wells (who was the Sox's best starter the second half of last year.

 

 

Seriously, I liked Bronson as much as the next guy, but he was at best a league average pitcher. Wily Mo has a hell of a lot more potential than Bronson does, and I think he's on his way.

[CrespoBlows]

Anyone else want further proof of how the NL is a haven for pitchers?

 

11 of Arroyo's 59 strikeouts have come via the pitcher.

 

7 have come via the eight spot of the lineup. (Which, in most of the cases are catchers)

[seabeachfred]

Crespo, it seems to me we Red Sox fans like to keep dredging things up over and over again about items we have no control over and are over and done with. Arroyo is gone PERIOD!!!! We got Pena in exchange and we have to make the most of it. The guy has talent. Whether he can finally harness it to become a standout player is still up in the air but if we could trade for a decent starter or one suddenly emerge we would not have to talk about Arroyo anymore. Besides, the NL is not as good a league as the AL is talent wise so what you say is already a given from where I sit. Now, can you come up with a suggestion to make Clement a decent starter for us again, and can we get this Pauley kid to step up big time while he is here, and will Wells be ok when he returns? If so most of our problems are solved. If only it was this easy.

[Matt]

The fact of the matter is, the majority of "big market" fans are not very patient when it comes to developmental players, and Red Sox fans fall in to the category (not all of them, but the majority). If the Red Sox were to trade Wily Mo Pena right now for a 3rd/4th starter, and if Wily Mo ended up breaking out, fans would complain about that trade too.

[seabeachfred]

Pena is on the DL and it is doubtful that the Red Sox are interested in trading a guy they think is going to be their next great power hitter. However, if a big trade was in the offing that could net us a top notch pitcher like say Willis I would certainly consider such a trade. Oh, Dontrell is having a bad year so far; well Wily Mo hasn't had a good one yet even though he was doing well so far for us. As for DW he did win 22 games last year and I think that is more in keeping with the guy's talent than his slow start this year.

[redsoxrules]

Pena is on the DL and it is doubtful that the Red Sox are interested in trading a guy they think is going to be their next great power hitter. However, if a big trade was in the offing that could net us a top notch pitcher like say Willis I would certainly consider such a trade. Oh, Dontrell is having a bad year so far; well Wily Mo hasn't had a good one yet even though he was doing well so far for us. As for DW he did win 22 games last year and I think that is more in keeping with the guy's talent than his slow start this year.

 

speaking of willis he has been great of late , his last 4 starts have been great outings , and i was looking at his game log and he's only really had 3 bad starts out of 12, his record should be better than it is but of corse he has no run support

[RoyNHSox]

I can’t see why the Marlins would want a player like WMP, given the direction they are going, and what his contract demands will be next year. A trade doesn't make sense.

[seabeachfred]

Red Sox Rules, it all comes down to whether the Marlins are even interested in trading Dontrell. If would be in Dontrell's best interest to get traded and go to a team that has a chance of going all the way, but we don't know what the Marlins plans are. They could be showcasing him and Cabrera or have decided to take all their young prospects and build them around those two players. All I know is unless someone from our farm system steps in and does a good job for us we are going to need another good starting pitcher. It looks like Wells is finished, and with Clement and the fifth starter inconsistent we need some help in that area.

[seabeachfred]

Looking back over earlier posts on this topic, it looks like you really guessed wrong on this one Crespo. DiNardo has not done just fine, will not do just fine, and has proven he is a Triple A pitcher with very average stuff. Sorry about that because from everything I've heard about the person he is a great guy, but great guys aren't going to win it for us if they can't g out there and do the job, whether it is as a hitter or fielder or pitcher. Better luck next time.

[schillingouttheks]

I can’t see why the Marlins would want a player like WMP, given the direction they are going, and what his contract demands will be next year. A trade doesn't make sense.

Why? The direction they are going in would pull Wily Mo towards them. A young power hitter with the potential to hit 40+ homers in your lineup in the coming years. Depending on how Abercrombie does down there, WMP could take up CF again and get comfortable. Besides, I'd be willing to bet that Abercrombie would become WMP's backup.

 

But we aren't going to trade WMP. That would be stupid. He's been ripping the ball apart and we're going to need a RF for next year. (I'm pretty sure Trot won't be back or am I mixed up here?)

[RoyNHSox]

Why? The direction they are going in would pull Wily Mo towards them. A young power hitter with the potential to hit 40+ homers in your lineup in the coming years. Depending on how Abercrombie does down there, WMP could take up CF again and get comfortable. Besides, I'd be willing to bet that Abercrombie would become WMP's backup.

 

But we aren't going to trade WMP. That would be stupid. He's been ripping the ball apart and we're going to need a RF for next year. (I'm pretty sure Trot won't be back or am I mixed up here?)

 

You make a good argument that WMP could be a fit for the Marlins plans for the future…

 

I agree with your point that the Sox future plan sees WMP in the OF, and Trot not in Boston after this year.

[seabeachfred]

Guys, be very careful about wanting Trot Nixon out of Boston. The jury is still out on Pena and if he regresses in any way and Trot is not here we have another offenseive hole in a lineup that was the most potent in the game just two years ago. David Murphy may not be ready next year to step in in case Pena starts striking out in droves again, and Ellsbury is two years away from taking over in centerfield. I want Nixon back. He is a steady player, a good RFer and a terrific clutch hitter.

[RoyNHSox]

It’s not that I want Trot out of Boston, but I don’t see the Sox paying the money that he’ll be looking for after his contract expires, especially given his history of injuries.

 

The Sox see WMP as their future OF’er so it makes sense that Trot will be the odd man out. Even if the WMP experiment doesn’t work I still don’t see Trot here next year.

[seabeachfred]

Well Roy, I think you should have tuned in to the stinkeroo from the Stadium tonight and you would have seen Trot as one of the few batters who took it to Mike Mussina. Trot has learned how to hit the tough pitchers and I think it would be lunacy to let him walk. Of course if he asks for the moon that is what will happen but if he is willing to give us a home discount I and a reasonable request for an extention I say sign up back up. We cannot keep letting good hitters go and a replace them with question marks.

[TheKilo]

Well Roy, I think you should have tuned in to the stinkeroo from the Stadium tonight and you would have seen Trot as one of the few batters who took it to Mike Mussina. Trot has learned how to hit the tough pitchers and I think it would be lunacy to let him walk. Of course if he asks for the moon that is what will happen but if he is willing to give us a home discount I and a reasonable request for an extention I say sign up back up. We cannot keep letting good hitters go and a replace them with question marks.

 

 

What question marks have we let go though?

 

Mueller was replaced by Lowell who is having an All-Star type year.

Graffanino was replaced by Loretta who hit .400 in May.

Millar was replaced by Youkilis who is getting on base 40% of the time.

 

 

There was no question about AGonz's bat, we knew he was light hitting but he was brought in for D. Really, the biggest diappointment so afr this year has been Varitek. Nixon has had a good year, and he usually is a good offensive player when healthy. The thing is, i;m still holding my breath for the trot Nixon DL trip this year.