Arroyo Traded to Reds

[MC Hammer]

An Interesting stat from Gammo's column

 

Pena had an .881 OPS against left-handed pitching last season (Mike Sweeney and Andruw Jones were .877, Manny Ramirez .885)

[yeszir]

May I be the first to dub him Whiffy Mo Pena.

I'll quote you so when BDD claims to have invented it, we can cause a commotion.

[Beckett95]

i dont see how anyone can consider this a bad move.

 

Arroyo is a good, not great 5th starter who is probably never going to be better than he was in 2004. I think he was probably one of the most overrated guys on the team last year.

 

Pena is a 24 year-old ridiculous athlete. He has good speed, along with unbelievable power. After the red sox traded marte, they were in need of a young right handed power hitter. This year he'll probably only platoon with Trot in right, which i think is good for him. His stats against lefties last year were MUCH better than they were against righties.

He'll get a solid amount of AB's and he gets to watch and learn from guys like David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez.

 

          [u] AB   R    H    2B   3B  HR   RBI  TB   BB   SO   SB   CS   OBP    SLG    AVG [/u]
Righties--201   28   47   11   0   12   33   94   12   75   2    0   .282   .468   .234 
Lefties---110   14   32   6    0   7    18   59   8    41   0    1   .345   .536   .291

[example1]

I think there is a chance that Wily Mo will be the guy young guy who will bat with david Ortiz to create the middle of the Sox lineup in the next 3-4 years after Manny leaves. He'll be different, obviously, than Manny, but they are looking at the future without losing strength in the present. I love the direction this team is moving.

[Beckett95]

PECOTAS prediciton for Pena--.282 avg.--33 HR--87 RBI--71 runs--5 steals

 

this was before the trade today

 

anyone heard of any other possible deals. Maybe a new manny deal or a trade with nixon?

[ksushi]

I agree a lot with what Alexanderthegreat said at the begining of this thread. It is kind of an ******* move by the Sox to trade a guy who has given us loyalty and a discount for us. It also would be very hypocritical to say it's a business now and then crucify players who leave us. However this is different for the JD situation, which I won't get into.

 

On a more relevant note, I really like this trade. He's a good 20 HR hitter and he's only 24. However I do agree he needs to be taught some plate-discipline and could be great with work from Papa Jack.

 

Correction, in half the AB's of an everyday player he is a 20 HR hitter. Think about what Ortiz did in 03. Hitting 31 homeruns in like 120 games or something. Pena hit 20 home runs in I think 99 games. If given the oppurtunity, that development curve that Theo talked about, well, it will curve rather drastically and over a short peroid of time. This guy is a beast.

[Goalstopper]

Didnt he sign a deal with the Red Sox at a home town discount this winter?

I live in an apartment and on the rumor mill said that bronson was going to live here for this year.i guess he won't. shows how much he thought he was going to be here.

 

as for the trade, we got a nother power hitter in pena and we have a young rotation with papelbon now on the rotation.I hope pena doesn't strike out like he did on the reds. i also remember he hit a 500 yarder one game.

[jsinger121]

One thing about this deal that I am happy about is that there were no front office leaks before it was officially announced. I think this was a big step to see if the front office could keep quiet on all decisions regarding the baseball operation side.

[The Monster is my Mom]

I remember hearing a bunch of rumors about it yesterday and this morning before it was announced.

[jsinger121]

But the thing is none of this got to the newspapers or was talked about on the radio in Boston until the deal was finalized.

[tarum]

Hi,

 

everyone gives so many numbers, statistics ...

 

please do not forget, sometimes the numbers doesn't mean a lot.

remember E. Rentaria, we sent Orlando Cabrera to Anheim and got Rentaria.

he supposed to be a great player but he was a big fiasco.

 

so, there is no guaranty that this guy will be good.

 

Arroyo wasn't a great starter but he could be a good bullpen.

 

this is a team game, it is all about a chemistry; we had that chemistry with Damon, Muller, Millar, Cabrera, Arroyo. and i don't know we will have it this year.

 

my personal opinion is that Theo has a big ego, he plays a very dangerous game.

i would rather to send Theo instead Arroyo.

 

that's my personal opinion of course.

[riverside sluggers]

The only source I heard it from was last night on Foxports

[jsinger121]

I saw that one too but it never got into any newspapers and no one talked about it on radio until it was announced. Great job by the Sox front office on keeping discussions private for the most part.

[yeszir]

I remember hearing a bunch of rumors about it yesterday and this morning before it was announced.

Yea. I checked a Reds blog this morning after I saw the deal, and yesterday they had mentioned hearing rumors of Pena to the sox for either Clement/Arroyo. The guy said they were desperate for pitching and would take either pitcher.

[He Hate Me]

You haven't complemented Pena on anything. You've tried to discredit him based on his streakiness, and lack of plate discipline.

 

The problem I have with your post is the glaring contridiction you stated. You ultimately stated that Cano's plate discipline is acceptable because he doesn't strike out. But you had orginally stated that Pena's undoing would be his lack of plate discipline. Why would Cano be spared of that erosion, while Pena would be afflicted with it? Power hitters, do strikeout more than slap hitters. Look at A-Rod he fanned 100 times this year, only in rare cases do power hitters not strikeout.

 

Pena, is only 24 years old, and has time to develop. He pounded 46 HR's in only 647 AB's. I'm not an expert, but anyone with that kind of power potential is certainly worth taking the risk on. Especially for a 29 year old pitcher who can't control his fastball, and had a K/9 rate of under five.

 

Even if Pena's plate discipline doesn't develop, he's still a .260/.320/.540 hitter. I'll take an .860 OPS.

 

Why are you so eager to try to make an issue out of it? I dont feel Pena has anything in his game worht complimenting, so why would I compliment him? if someone on the Red Sox deserves a compliment, I'll pay it. Pena's streakiness and lack of plate discipline are the harsh realities of his game right now. If he overcomes his 1 strikeout per 3 ABs then you can rub my face in it. Until then, don't be so sensitive to observations about your players. I dont have a problem calling Giambi and Sheff Steroid junkies, because that's the truth of things.

 

And where did I say Cano's lack of plate discipline was acceptable? I merely pointed out a stat, you drew your own conclusions.

[Cityofchampions33]

Correction, in half the AB's of an everyday player he is a 20 HR hitter. Think about what Ortiz did in 03. Hitting 31 homeruns in like 120 games or something. Pena hit 20 home runs in I think 99 games. If given the oppurtunity, that development curve that Theo talked about, well, it will curve rather drastically and over a short peroid of time. This guy is a beast.

 

Verry good point, I totally forgot ABs. Man, I mean just add that to the list of things that'll help him succeed:

-Learning from Papa Jack

-Watching Papi and Manny

-Developing as he is only 24

-Spending time with better coaches

-etc.

 

I mean the good points keep goin on and on, it'll be ahrd for him not become something. On a side-note, he has played 1 game at 3b, could we possibley set him up as Lowell's replacement? We'd get the power we'd have gotten from Marte, and we could open up a OF spot for the future.

[jsinger121]

He will not play third as he would be a liability over there. Let him get accustomed to the Fenway Right Field.

[Cityofchampions33]

Yeah, of course we can't just throw him there, I'm talkin over time

[ImissPedro]

It's truly sad, here was a player who against the advice of his agent signed for a discount anyways, and now is screwed over by the front office who have found an excuse to trade away a quality starter not to mention a fan favorite... that s*** about clement and pittsburgh better not happen now that they pulled this off... and i bought an arroyo tshirt too wtf. so long and thanks for all the memories

[MC Hammer]

It's truly sad, here was a player who against the advice of his agent signed for a discount anyways, and now is screwed over by the front office who have found an excuse to trade away a quality starter not to mention a fan favorite... that s*** about clement and pittsburgh better not happen now that they pulled this off... and i bought an arroyo tshirt too wtf. so long and thanks for all the memories

I can't see why they would still go through with the Pittsburgh deal. Wily Mo fills the need that we would have gotten from Pittsburgh. There's no point in making that deal anymore.

[ksushi]

Hi,

 

everyone gives so many numbers, statistics ...

 

please do not forget, sometimes the numbers doesn't mean a lot.

remember E. Rentaria, we sent Orlando Cabrera to Anheim and got Rentaria.

he supposed to be a great player but he was a big fiasco.

 

so, there is no guaranty that this guy will be good.

 

Arroyo wasn't a great starter but he could be a good bullpen.

 

this is a team game, it is all about a chemistry; we had that chemistry with Damon, Muller, Millar, Cabrera, Arroyo. and i don't know we will have it this year.

 

my personal opinion is that Theo has a big ego, he plays a very dangerous game.

i would rather to send Theo instead Arroyo.

 

that's my personal opinion of course.

 

First off, Id like to say I totally agree with you about the numbers part. Not everything is numbers. Numbers can only show you how much, or what has happened already. They don't show room for growth and they don't show a players tools. Which is why I love this deal. Sure, Bronson is a resilient pitcher who in a couple of years will be known as a crafty veteran. He has value, no doubting that. Pena on the other hand has a career .303 on base and in something like 800 MLB AB's he has struck out once every three AB's and walked about once every leap year. This is not a good numbers move. Looking past the numbers, Arroyo - although resilient and durable - has been an up and down kinda guy who struggles every year to be average. Not to put him down, I am an arroyo fan, but Pena is a 24 year old super talent with monster power. He does have the potential to get everyone in the Reds front office fired with his the potential he has for this season and especially down the road. This guy is a monster bat. The numbers don't tell the story, you have to watch.

 

Second, I understand that '04 was amazing, but roster turn over happens. Pedro and Cabrera commanded more money than the sox were willing to play. The sox put a number on players based on on-field performance and not charisma or how much the fnas love them. It factors in and sometimes its not worth the money. that aside, a team needs to get younger. An aging team will only compete for so long. Trading for young pop is never a bad move, and their bringing along a great core of young pitchers so you shouldn't be upset. Theo knows what hes doing. Keep your head up, don't jump bandwagon yet.

 

 

Oh, and Pena doesn't play third base, but Youkilis does, and Pena has limited first base experience, so in the event that Lowell is a black hole at the place this year, that might not be a terrible option to fall back on if Pena has any defensive pulse.

[god is a redsox FAN]

Wily Mo has great potential, but PLEASE do not call him a good, proven player. Please see my posts about career BA and OBP.

Have you seen this guy field??? WOW. He may have a bat, but he has no glove. I don't care about his batting as much as i do his field work. When you have Papi, Varitke, Manny, crisp, and etc. I worry more about his field work too. Don't get me wrong, I think Pena is a great hitter, but like others said he strikes out way to much. I want to see him field as well as Nixon if they platoon.

On another note. I think possibly, making Papi #3, then ramirez, bump up Varitek, then have Pena bat, that will work. I think that will make ptichers throw some off speed stuff, and Pena can crush em

[Sox Fan on Cape]

There have to be other trades to make this work.

[god is a redsox FAN]

i honestly don't like dropping Bronson. I figured Bronson would be a great SP until Papplebon got up to the Starting level. After that Arroyo would have been great for a reliever, or even a closer, if something were to happen to foulke again.

[jsinger121]

Pena has a strong arm and has raw defensive tools. If he wasn't rushed to the majors because of his freaking contract he signed with the Yankees before being traded to the Reds maybe he would have matured a bit more. He didn't spend enough time in the minors to develop. Had he stayed in the minors for the right amount of time then he would have been more polished both offensively and defensively.

[kreinbihl34]

This deal sucks... Arroyo deserved a lot better. Even if we got Willy Mo he could still not pan out in the limelight of Fenway. I don't care if people like this or not but I don't wan this guy... maybe if we traded Clement it would be different. I just thought Arroyo would be with us for a long time

[yeszir]

This deal sucks... Arroyo deserved a lot better. Even if we got Willy Mo he could still not pan out in the limelight of Fenway. I don't care if people like this or not but I don't wan this guy... maybe if we traded Clement it would be different. I just thought Arroyo would be with us for a long time

You want to trade the better pitcher for the same guy?

[jsinger121]

The Red Sox can find Bronson Arroyo type pitchers anywhere in baseball. Heck the Red Sox got Bronson off waivers from the Pirates. Bronson is what he is and that is a league average pitcher who is likely not going to get better with age. His K numbers have already started to take a dip and it likely will not go up as he gets older.

[Goalstopper]

One thing about this deal that I am happy about is that there were no front office leaks before it was officially announced. I think this was a big step to see if the front office could keep quiet on all decisions regarding the baseball operation side.

 

it was on headline on the Boston Herald Sports

[jsinger121]

It was only on there after it was officially announced. Nothing really leaked to the Boston Media that was in any of today's morning edition newspapers.