Manny Abreu done?

[Plumpamania]

Well Rowand of two seasons ago would be more than acceptable. He had a solid OPS and 22 HR as well as amazing defense. But the Rowand of last year not so much. I wonder what Jason Michaels would cost for CF?

[Redguitar985]

Why would we put Marte in the outfield if we have Adam Stern? Even though Marte is the better prospect, doesn't Stern have more experience there?

[Plumpamania]

Stern has some more, but he has no stick whatsoever. The Double Headed GM even spoke of placing Marte in the OF when they acquired him, due to Lowell's presence at 3B. He'd basically follow the M. Cabrera route (not Melky ..)

[Redguitar985]

Is Marte guaranteed to be in the majors this year even?

[Plumpamania]

He should be. He really has nothing left to prove in the minors. However I think he'll start off there this year as they give Lowell a chance. If Lowell busts, they will deal or waive Lowell and bring up Marte.

[ORS]

Well Rowand of two seasons ago would be more than acceptable. He had a solid OPS and 22 HR as well as amazing defense. But the Rowand of last year not so much. I wonder what Jason Michaels would cost for CF?

I've wondered about Michaels too. The Phils need some help in the rotation, and Cole Hamels' slower than expected climb through the minors has got to be frustrating them. Arroyo probably won't interest them since his GB/FB would suck in that bandbox. Maybe they'd be interested in taking DiNardo back with a little Delcarmen on the side? I like Manny-D, but it's sounding like Edgar Martinez give the Sox what he can, and middle of the field position prospects are much more valuable than RP prospects.

[Plumpamania]

I think they might bite more for Clement for Michaels, but if that were the case I'd offere Clement for Rowand and see what they say.

 

Declarmen no, Meredith yes. DiNardo and Meredith would be a little heavy price still. Shoppach for Michaels?

[ORS]

I'd rather keep Shoppach than either of Delcarmen or Meredith. He's got the tools defensively, good power, and is patient at the plate (his IsoOB% last year was .099). The only thing he struggles with is consistent contact. I'd much rather him backing V-Tek up than either of the completely horrible Flaherty and Huckaby. I don't think a DiNardo + Delcarmen/Meredith package is too much. In fact, I'd be giddy if it got the deal done. Michaels has a career .380 OB% in 383 ABs. I'd rather it be with Meredith in the deal, but it would be even less likely to happen.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I would be more interested in getting Jeremy Reed over Aaron Rowand.

 

It would be tough to make a deal including Jimmy Rollins because they would be without a SS. However we do have players that can be reliable for them like Alex Cora or Tony Graffanino (who everyone seems to think will be traded). On that note I could see the Red Sox making a play that included Manny, Clement, and Graffanino for Abreu and Rollins. I really like that lineup plus the speed it adds in the end:

 

1. Jimmy Rollins

2. Mark Loretta

3. David Ortiz

4. Bobby Abreu

5. Mike Lowell

6. Jason Varitek

7. Trot Nixon

8. Kevin Youkilis

9. Jeremy Reed

[ORS]

I would be more interested in getting Jeremy Reed over Aaron Rowand.

 

It would be tough to make a deal including Jimmy Rollins because they would be without a SS. However we do have players that can be reliable for them like Alex Cora or Tony Graffanino (who everyone seems to think will be traded). On that note I could see the Red Sox making a play that included Manny, Clement, and Graffanino for Abreu and Rollins. I really like that lineup plus the speed it adds in the end:

 

1. Jimmy Rollins

2. Mark Loretta

3. David Ortiz

4. Bobby Abreu

5. Mike Lowell

6. Jason Varitek

7. Trot Nixon

8. Kevin Youkilis

9. Jeremy Reed

How do you propose they get Reed after that deal? Arroyo? Then they are down to 5 SP, 4 if they trade Wells (or he retires), and that's with Papelbon in the rotation. I think they want to start him off in the 'pen. I seriously doubt that the FO makes any moves with either Clement or Arroyo that doesn't bring a CF back in the deal. It is the only big hole left in the field and it needs to be filled.

[Plumpamania]

I'd rather keep Shoppach than either of Delcarmen or Meredith. He's got the tools defensively, good power, and is patient at the plate (his IsoOB% last year was .099). The only thing he struggles with is consistent contact. I'd much rather him backing V-Tek up than either of the completely horrible Flaherty and Huckaby. I don't think a DiNardo + Delcarmen/Meredith package is too much. In fact, I'd be giddy if it got the deal done. Michaels has a career .380 OB% in 383 ABs. I'd rather it be with Meredith in the deal, but it would be even less likely to happen.

 

Michaels is also 31, but the more I think about it, it could be a very solid deal, good thought.

[jimmycarter05]

How do you propose they get Reed after that deal? Arroyo? Then they are down to 5 SP, 4 if they trade Wells (or he retires), and that's with Papelbon in the rotation. I think they want to start him off in the 'pen. I seriously doubt that the FO makes any moves with either Clement or Arroyo that doesn't bring a CF back in the deal. It is the only big hole left in the field and it needs to be filled.

 

I very much so doubt Paps will be in the pen with all the bullpen guys the Red Sox have signed so far.

[ORS]

I very much so doubt Paps will be in the pen with all the bullpen guys the Red Sox have signed so far.

Most reports have him starting the year there, but he will compete for a SP job at ST. I have no doubts about his FB, but a MLB pitcher can't live on that alone. If he still hasn't mastered a 2nd pitch, then he'll need more time to hone it before he will be effective as a SP.

[jimmycarter05]

I also don't think the Phils will give up Jimmy Rollins.

[26 to 6]

Rowand's a great outfielder who could play center, so I'd like that pickup. And Rollins is a speedy guy, so we could solve both the leadoff and shortstop holes there. If they dealt Manny for Rowand and Rollins, I wouldn't mind it that much.

Thinkinh about it, it would be a reallly good move IMO. It would sort of change the team's identity though. From a slugging, good offensive club to more of a speed/defense kind of thing, but thats never a bad thing.

[schillingouttheks]

See: 2005 Chicago White Sox. The story of small ball and dominant pitching.

[jimmycarter05]

Rollins and Rowland? No way in hell the Phillies trade either one of them. Even for a play of Manny's stardome.

[schillingouttheks]

Well, if they traded Rowand, to them it was more of a Thome for Manny trade. And, seeing how Thome was injured and he's aging, he's unpredictable. Manny would definitely fill the gap that Thome left. Of course, this is a dead issue, or so it seems, so there's not much to speculate about anymore.

[guapo34]

Rollins and Rowland? No way in hell the Phillies trade either one of them. Even for a play of Manny's stardome.

 

While the trade doesn't make sense cuz it leaves the Phillies with no SS and 3 outfielders that can't play center, thats nowhere near enough talent for Manny. Rollins is slightly above average SS and Rowand is a pretty average center fielder. If we throw in cora and they throw in Burrell the positions work, and we're still getting the short end.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Rowand is a pretty average center fielder.

 

 

Hitting, yes. He hit 24 homers in 2004 but just 13 last year. 24 is above avg. 13 is below.

 

But if you're talking about fielding...umm...well......I wouldn't say Rowand's an "average CF."

[guapo34]

Well combining the two. I guess you could call him slightly above average. Last year he was average, the year before he was better.

[jimmycarter05]

While the trade doesn't make sense cuz it leaves the Phillies with no SS and 3 outfielders that can't play center, thats nowhere near enough talent for Manny. Rollins is slightly above average SS and Rowand is a pretty average center fielder. If we throw in cora and they throw in Burrell the positions work, and we're still getting the short end.

 

 

Jimmy Rollins is a great leadoff hitter, great flat out hitter.

[Beckett95]

IF that ILoveKruk person over at the philly website is legit, the deal is complete

 

heres what he said at about 7:45 tonight

Crazy day here on the board huh...

 

To get this topic back on the subject:

 

This deal is nearly completed- There are prospects involved and the Phillies want a higher level prospect from Boston than they are offering. Money has been agreed on.

[Redguitar985]

While the trade doesn't make sense cuz it leaves the Phillies with no SS and 3 outfielders that can't play center, thats nowhere near enough talent for Manny. Rollins is slightly above average SS and Rowand is a pretty average center fielder. If we throw in cora and they throw in Burrell the positions work, and we're still getting the short end.

 

But if we have a mostly healthy pitching staff of Schilling, Beckett, Clement, Wakefield, and Papelbon, and a mostly healthy bullpen with Mota, Timlin, Seanez, Taveras, and Foulke, couldn't they afford a slight decrease in hitting? Rowand's no Manny, but he isn't a Bellhorn either. And Rollins? He's just sick. He seems like he'd be the Millar-type player in the clubhouse.

[jimmycarter05]

IF that ILoveKruk person over at the philly website is legit, the deal is complete

 

heres what he said at about 7:45 tonight

 

 

So what does this trade look like? Who are we getting and giving up?

[Beckett95]

Over there they are saying....

 

Manny, Clement and a prospect (maybe shoppach

for

Abreu, Michaels and a prospect (maybe Robinson Tejada)

[jimmycarter05]

Over there they are saying....

 

Manny, Clement and a prospect (maybe shoppach

for

Abreu, Michaels and a prospect (maybe Robinson Tejada)

 

 

That Tejada guy is pretty good, I like this trade, but we still don't have a SS and I'm guessing we move Trot to LF if this happens.

[guapo34]

But if we have a mostly healthy pitching staff of Schilling, Beckett, Clement, Wakefield, and Papelbon, and a mostly healthy bullpen with Mota, Timlin, Seanez, Taveras, and Foulke, couldn't they afford a slight decrease in hitting? Rowand's no Manny, but he isn't a Bellhorn either. And Rollins? He's just sick. He seems like he'd be the Millar-type player in the clubhouse.

 

Sure we could afford a slight decrease in hitting with improved pitching, but we don't need to downgrade our offense so why should we?

[Beckett95]

id rather see trot in RF Michaels in CF and Abreu in LF. Abreu is not a very good fielder.

[Beckett95]

They are saying the guy is legit and hes announced a bunch of moves before they were publically announced

 

He had the LIeber signing before it was announced.

He knew about the Finley talks before it was publicly disclosed that Finley had refused to come here.

Knew Bowa would not be fired in early 2004 when many ohters though he would.

Knew the ballpark was on schedule when most thought it far behind.

Knew Millwood was signed (2nd time) prior to it being announced.

Annouced the Nomar to the Phils thing, but clearly stated it was not finished.

Knew Plesac had retired prior to the announcement.

Knew Worrell had signed prior to the announcement.

Knew Phils would offer Millwood arb when many thought they wouldn't.

Knew the Phils offer to Terry Adams (2nd time) before it was announced.

Knew the Milton trade WAY before it was public.

Knew Silva and Punto were in the Milton trade.

Stefan Marbury to the Knicks

Chris Webber to the Sixers

Shaq to the Heat (I think)

Clinton Portis trade (biggest NFL trade I can think of)

 

i dont know what to think. Its to confusing.