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Posted
last i checked you need a competent if not good QB & receivers to go along with a great runningback (Sanders). sorry but scott mitchell and erik kramer don't count.

 

You need a good Offensive Line too.

 

The Texans have too many holes to make replacing a very competent RB with what is essentially a question mark a good decision.

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Posted
i don't necessarily disagree with you. i just think the idea of drafting potentially the best talent available might be too tempting to overcome and the texans could rationalize it by either drafting o-line help with picks from round 2 - 7, pickup FA let go before training camp breaks, or wait till next year. from a fan perspective, having a trio of Carr, Johnson, and Bush might = the Cowboys triplets of Aikman, Irvin, and Smith.
Posted
True, but Domanick Davis could play the role of Emmitt as well. And the Cowboys had the best offensive line in the league at the time. I'd be all for them drafting Reggie Bush if they didn't already have a young, more than capable RB already, especially when there's a player they can get at a position they desperately need, like D'Brickshaw Ferguson.
Posted
True, but Domanick Davis could play the role of Emmitt as well. And the Cowboys had the best offensive line in the league at the time. I'd be all for them drafting Reggie Bush if they didn't already have a young, more than capable RB already, especially when there's a player they can get at a position they desperately need, like D'Brickshaw Ferguson.

You took the words out of my mouth. The Cowboys had one of the best o-lines of all time. Just ask Smith (the number 1 rusher of all time.)

Posted

NFL Draft Preview

 

The Texans "earned" this pick by losing a number of close games in bizarre fashion down the stretch and thus won "The Reggie Bush Sweepstakes", as the battle among the leagues worst teams for the top pick had been labeled. In all reality it isn't a question of if Houston will take the star running back from USC, but rather should they? This is a team that has numerous holes to fill, most notably up front along the offensive line, and a running back in Domanick Davis that has rushed for about 1,000+ yards in each year of his career who they just recently rewarded with a new $21.1 million contract extension. There is no doubt that Reggie Bush would make any team better, but for this franchise drafting him is simply not a sound strategy.

 

Bush is a rare athlete who scouts describe as "special" and he can dominate a game with explosive plays as a runner, receiver and return man. However with the Texans he will have to split carries with Davis and won't even help out as a kick returner because they already have a Pro Bowler there in rookie Jerome Mathis. If they want to make the flashy pick and appease the fans they will take Bush, but if they want to make the right football decision they would move down for a package of draft picks and take Ferguson. From all accounts it looks like the team plans to select Bush but you have to wonder how much of an impact he will be able to have for this team with precious few weapons around him and limited opportunities to get his hands on the ball.

Posted
If they want to "appease" fans, they sure as hell better draft Vincent Young if he comes out. They need a QB like they need a RB (not at all) and right now, he's a god in Texas.
Old-Timey Member
Posted
I'll admit when I'm wrong, and the Rose Bowl made me wrong this time. If Young comes out, the Texans should take him. He's a better fit for a team without a good O-Line. Who the hell's gonna sack a guy they can't touch?
Posted
I'll admit when I'm wrong, and the Rose Bowl made me wrong this time. If Young comes out, the Texans should take him. He's a better fit for a team without a good O-Line. Who the hell's gonna sack a guy they can't touch?

 

Its amazing what ONE game will do to people's thinking. Fine, Vince Young played a good game BUT the USC defense looked like crap. I saw passes to Longhorn WRs wide open with nobody in view. Vince Young can run but the LBs in the NFL are MUCH faster than the boys in college.

 

Vince Young is another Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, or Michael Vick....last time I looked those types of scrambling QBs haven't one a Super Bowl. I am taking Matt Leinart over Vince Young every time because it shows having Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Brad Johnson (Tampa Bay), or Trent Dilfer (Baltimore) seemed to pay off. Having a pocket passer is still the way to go.

 

His athletic ability allows him to shine in college just as Vick was able to do. When you get to the NFL its all about intelligence. You need to out smart the other teams defense. I don't care what kind of athlete Vince Young is.....defenses will find a way to beat him unless he figures out how to dismantle them. I still saw Vince Young looking to run almost every chance he could get.

 

The Texans have a good pocket passer in David Carr. If he has time to throw you will would see he completes the passes. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Matt Hasselback, and Drew Breese (to name a couple) are good because they have all the time in the world to throw. The Texans need an offensive line and more options for David Carr. Its not worth it for them to invest in another QB who will fair no better behind a continued patch work offensive line. I will guarantee the linebackers and defensive ends can catch Vince Young. They are all great athletes.

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Its amazing what ONE game will do to people's thinking. Fine, Vince Young played a good game BUT the USC defense looked like crap. I saw passes to Longhorn WRs wide open with nobody in view. Vince Young can run but the LBs in the NFL are MUCH faster than the boys in college.

 

Vince Young is another Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, or Michael Vick....last time I looked those types of scrambling QBs haven't one a Super Bowl. I am taking Matt Leinart over Vince Young every time because it shows having Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Brad Johnson (Tampa Bay), or Trent Dilfer (Baltimore) seemed to pay off. Having a pocket passer is still the way to go.

 

His athletic ability allows him to shine in college just as Vick was able to do. When you get to the NFL its all about intelligence. You need to out smart the other teams defense. I don't care what kind of athlete Vince Young is.....defenses will find a way to beat him unless he figures out how to dismantle them. I still saw Vince Young looking to run almost every chance he could get.

 

The Texans have a good pocket passer in David Carr. If he has time to throw you will would see he completes the passes. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Matt Hasselback, and Drew Breese (to name a couple) are good because they have all the time in the world to throw. The Texans need an offensive line and more options for David Carr. Its not worth it for them to invest in another QB who will fair no better behind a continued patch work offensive line. I will guarantee the linebackers and defensive ends can catch Vince Young. They are all great athletes.

Steve Young and Joe Theisman say, "Hi". Both were passers capable of scrambling, just like McNabb and Culpeper. I'll give you Vick since he hasn't thrown the ball very well on any level. FYI, Vince Young lead the nation in passer rating this year. He can throw the ball well, but he can also beat you with his feet, which puts a lot more pressure on defenses.

 

McNabb went to 4 straight NFC conference championship games and one super bowl. Hardly the player to bring up for an argument that his type of player won't be successful.

Posted
Steve Young and Joe Theisman say, "Hi". Both were passers capable of scrambling, just like McNabb and Culpeper. I'll give you Vick since he hasn't thrown the ball very well on any level. FYI, Vince Young lead the nation in passer rating this year. He can throw the ball well, but he can also beat you with his feet, which puts a lot more pressure on defenses.

 

McNabb went to 4 straight NFC conference championship games and one super bowl. Hardly the player to bring up for an argument that his type of player won't be successful.

 

John Elway is another QB that scrambled, particularly early in his career. I do believe he had some success in his career. He may not have run as much as the others, but certainly having the ability there put pressure on defenses.

 

Besides, NFL Defenses may be faster, but at about 235 lbs, Vince Young doesn't rely on just speed. He can break some tackles as well and NFL players or not, it's tough to tackle what you can't get a clean shot at.

Posted
I think its possible Vince Young could be drafted by the Titans, if he's not already scooped up by then. Young was discovered by Steve McNair at his football game when he was a sophmore in high school. McNair has been privately mentoring him ever since. He could retire or opt to stay for 2006 to mentor him as he makes the transition from college to NFL ball.
Posted
Steve Young and Joe Theisman say, "Hi". Both were passers capable of scrambling, just like McNabb and Culpeper. I'll give you Vick since he hasn't thrown the ball very well on any level. FYI, Vince Young lead the nation in passer rating this year. He can throw the ball well, but he can also beat you with his feet, which puts a lot more pressure on defenses.

 

McNabb went to 4 straight NFC conference championship games and one super bowl. Hardly the player to bring up for an argument that his type of player won't be successful.

 

Steve Young, Joe Theisman, John Elway....they all had one thing in common. They were all smart intelligent quarterbacks who were able to pick apart a defense with there knowledge of the game. Vince Young still strikes me as simply an athlete.

 

Donovan McNabb is clearly the most bright out of the ones I mentioned but still can't control the game such as Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I will still take Matt Leinart over Vince Young. If it wasn't for the one Rose Bowl game we would not be talking about Vince Young in the manner that is present. I do not believe Vince Young is any kind of upgrade from David Carr. If you place Peyton Manning behind that offensive line in Houston...he won't do anything. If you put Daunte Culpepper on that team...he would be horrible...just look how he did without Randy Moss as his security blanket.

 

It was mostly the comment about Vince Young not getting sacked that through me aside. Every quarterback in the NFL gets sacked. Especially when there are players constantly in your face and you can guarantee if in Houston...Vince Young would have players always in his face. Besides its interesting to see David Carr's rushing stats this season. Not too bad.

 

The Texans should stick with playmakers such as Reggie Bush but I would welcome the chance (if I was the Texans) to move down the list since they need help all over there team.

 

Besides, NFL Defenses may be faster, but at about 235 lbs, Vince Young doesn't rely on just speed. He can break some tackles as well and NFL players or not, it's tough to tackle what you can't get a clean shot at.

 

All running backs who weigh in at 235 lbs get tackled. That won't make a difference. I can guarantee NFL players will be able to tackle him. He will get tackled and sacked and pushed around his first season. Its very rare to see a player of his abilities come in and do well right away.

 

There is a better chance (if on the right team) Matt Leinart will pick up the NFL system better since he has been running it at USC for the past many years.

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Steve Young, Joe Theisman, John Elway....they all had one thing in common. They were all smart intelligent quarterbacks who were able to pick apart a defense with there knowledge of the game. Vince Young still strikes me as simply an athlete.

 

Donovan McNabb is clearly the most bright out of the ones I mentioned but still can't control the game such as Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I will still take Matt Leinart over Vince Young. If it wasn't for the one Rose Bowl game we would not be talking about Vince Young in the manner that is present. I do not believe Vince Young is any kind of upgrade from David Carr. If you place Peyton Manning behind that offensive line in Houston...he won't do anything. If you put Daunte Culpepper on that team...he would be horrible...just look how he did without Randy Moss as his security blanket.

 

It was mostly the comment about Vince Young not getting sacked that through me aside. Every quarterback in the NFL gets sacked. Especially when there are players constantly in your face and you can guarantee if in Houston...Vince Young would have players always in his face. Besides its interesting to see David Carr's rushing stats this season. Not too bad.

 

The Texans should stick with playmakers such as Reggie Bush but I would welcome the chance (if I was the Texans) to move down the list since they need help all over there team.

 

 

 

All running backs who weigh in at 235 lbs get tackled. That won't make a difference. I can guarantee NFL players will be able to tackle him. He will get tackled and sacked and pushed around his first season. Its very rare to see a player of his abilities come in and do well right away.

 

There is a better chance (if on the right team) Matt Leinart will pick up the NFL system better since he has been running it at USC for the past many years.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, I find it very shortsighted to question the on-the-field intelligence and label as just an athlete a QB that lead the college game in passer rating.

 

Yes, without the Rose Bowl, Young isn't getting as much hype as he is now. But, that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve it. He's played like that all year, but this is the first time everyone watched.

Posted
Steve Young, Joe Theisman, John Elway....they all had one thing in common. They were all smart intelligent quarterbacks who were able to pick apart a defense with there knowledge of the game. Vince Young still strikes me as simply an athlete.

 

Donovan McNabb is clearly the most bright out of the ones I mentioned but still can't control the game such as Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. I will still take Matt Leinart over Vince Young. If it wasn't for the one Rose Bowl game we would not be talking about Vince Young in the manner that is present. I do not believe Vince Young is any kind of upgrade from David Carr. If you place Peyton Manning behind that offensive line in Houston...he won't do anything. If you put Daunte Culpepper on that team...he would be horrible...just look how he did without Randy Moss as his security blanket.

 

It was mostly the comment about Vince Young not getting sacked that through me aside. Every quarterback in the NFL gets sacked. Especially when there are players constantly in your face and you can guarantee if in Houston...Vince Young would have players always in his face. Besides its interesting to see David Carr's rushing stats this season. Not too bad.

 

The Texans should stick with playmakers such as Reggie Bush but I would welcome the chance (if I was the Texans) to move down the list since they need help all over there team.

 

 

 

All running backs who weigh in at 235 lbs get tackled. That won't make a difference. I can guarantee NFL players will be able to tackle him. He will get tackled and sacked and pushed around his first season. Its very rare to see a player of his abilities come in and do well right away.

 

There is a better chance (if on the right team) Matt Leinart will pick up the NFL system better since he has been running it at USC for the past many years.

 

 

Yes, but how many 235 lbs. running backs have the moves of Vince Young? Hell, even Shaun Alexander and LaDainian Tomlinson don't crack 225.

 

Take a guy with the ability to break tackles, and give him moves to where defenders very rarely get a clean shot at him.

 

Who are you to say Vince Young's not smart? Do you know him? Basically, he just left a defensive mastermind in pete Caroll completely unable to even contain him.

 

Add 20 lbs. to Michael Vick and tell me that defenders wouldn't have nightmares of trying to stop him.

Old-Timey Member
Posted

Add 20 lbs. to Michael Vick and tell me that defenders wouldn't have nightmares of trying to stop him.

And 5 inches. Vick is listed at 6-0, Young is 6-5.

Posted
I found this interesting too....how many scrambling QBs are in the playoffs this season?? I'll give you Jake Plummer but thats it.

 

....and he only started doing well once he got to Denver who is a run first team

 

You're making the mistake of attributing team accomplishments, or a lack there of, to individuals.

 

And I will say that Jake Plummer doesn't scramble, anymore.

 

Dante Culpepper and Donovan McNabb are out for the season, so they can't be in the playoffs, anyway. Michael Vick would've been in but I'm not convinced of that defense. How many other scrambling QB's are in the league?

Posted

Who are you to say Vince Young's not smart? Do you know him? Basically, he just left a defensive mastermind in pete Caroll completely unable to even contain him.

lol Young forced Caroll to go for it on 4th down because Caroll believed if he would have punted the ball back to him he wouldnt have stopped him anyway. Thats how good Young is.

Posted
Alright you guys can worship Vince Young all you want. How big he is, how fast he is, how he beat USC in the Rose Bow, etc. I've seen it before and its the same thing all over again. Great athletes can make a difference at the WR and RB position but not typically QB. I do not consider Tom Brady or Peyton Manning great athletes. I consider them great students of the game. Vince Young defeated a great defensive mastermind in Pete Caroll.....HAHAHA he couldn't make it in the NFL....THATS how good those masterminds are. You think Vince Young can rip apart a Bill Belichick, Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden, etc. type defense. Dreaaaaaaming. You guys are not giving enough credit to the rest of the NFL. These guys are all fast, they are all strong, and they can all tackle. Vince Young is by no means an unstoppable machine. The greatest possible QB athlete still can't win based on his skills....but by his understanding of what he needs to do. It will be interesting to see Vince Young's score on the wonderlic IQ test.
Posted
Alright you guys can worship Vince Young all you want. How big he is, how fast he is, how he beat USC in the Rose Bow, etc. I've seen it before and its the same thing all over again. Great athletes can make a difference at the WR and RB position but not typically QB. I do not consider Tom Brady or Peyton Manning great athletes. I consider them great students of the game. Vince Young defeated a great defensive mastermind in Pete Caroll.....HAHAHA he couldn't make it in the NFL....THATS how good those masterminds are. You think Vince Young can rip apart a Bill Belichick, Bill Cowher, Jon Gruden, etc. type defense. Dreaaaaaaming. You guys are not giving enough credit to the rest of the NFL. These guys are all fast, they are all strong, and they can all tackle. Vince Young is by no means an unstoppable machine. The greatest possible QB athlete still can't win based on his skills....but by his understanding of what he needs to do. It will be interesting to see Vince Young's score on the wonderlic IQ test.

 

He never had a losing season with the Patriots. 10-6, 9-7, and 8-8. And apparently NFL teams think highly enough of him to want him to Coach their team now. He probably couldn't rip apart a Bill Belichek, Bill Cowher, or Monte Kiffin (the man behind TB's defense) apart -- then again, how many QB's can? You bring up the best of the best defenses, but here's the problem with that one, there's 25 plus teams in the league with defenses that aren't that good. When asked the question 'who is the toughest player in the NFL to defend?', why do you think Michael Vick is the most common answer? How many other QB's require defenses to completely revamp their gameplan against them? Vince Young has similar agility, similar speed, is taller, can throw better, and will be a tougher person to tackle because of his size. You say guys in the NFL can tackle -- well, why do Michael Vick, Dante Hall, and others consistently make people look foolish trying to tackle them? Why is Reggie Bush a good pick, then? And once again, who are you to say how smart or capable of reading an NFL defense is? Being African-American doesn't make him any less capable than anybody else! Hell, Fitzpatrick, from the Rams, supposedly scored a perfect score on the Wonderlic, which would make him the only one to ever do it, does that mean he's going to be a great NFL QB?

Posted
He never had a losing season with the Patriots. 10-6, 9-7, and 8-8. And apparently NFL teams think highly enough of him to want him to Coach their team now. He probably couldn't rip apart a Bill Belichek, Bill Cowher, or Monte Kiffin (the man behind TB's defense) apart -- then again, how many QB's can? You bring up the best of the best defenses, but here's the problem with that one, there's 25 plus teams in the league with defenses that aren't that good. When asked the question 'who is the toughest player in the NFL to defend?', why do you think Michael Vick is the most common answer? How many other QB's require defenses to completely revamp their gameplan against them? Vince Young has similar agility, similar speed, is taller, can throw better, and will be a tougher person to tackle because of his size. You say guys in the NFL can tackle -- well, why do Michael Vick, Dante Hall, and others consistently make people look foolish trying to tackle them? Why is Reggie Bush a good pick, then? And once again, who are you to say how smart or capable of reading an NFL defense is? Being African-American doesn't make him any less capable than anybody else! Hell, Fitzpatrick, from the Rams, supposedly scored a perfect score on the Wonderlic, which would make him the only one to ever do it, does that mean he's going to be a great NFL QB?

 

Being smart and having the skills to throw the ball make you successful. Fitzpatrick can't throw the ball. Alex Smith scored high on the test and he has the skills. Once that teams places the pieces around him he will do well.

 

Vince Young is not as fast as Michael Vick....last I checked Vick gets tackled A LOT. He is not a good QB. Good athlete sure...does his athletic ability save him sometimes...sure...but I am not building a team around him. Next, Vince Young is big??? Daunte Culpepper is bigger and he is also fast. Do you consider him a good QB?? I sure hope not cause if you do this convo is over.

 

As for the other defenses in the NFL...they are all composed of the best players from college football over the past many years. You are probably one of those people who makes dumb remarks saying the top college football team can beat the worst NFL team. Give more credit to the NFL...these guys can all play. Vince Young is not a freak of nature and will require time to understand the NFL schemes.

 

When dealing with the original question of Vince Young going to Houston....what does that solve?? You think his speed will save him against the oncoming defenders. I will guarantee every defense is the NFL is better, faster, and more talented than the defense he faced against USC. He does the Texans no good...period. They need offensive line help and they need more explosive players. Andre Johnson is the only potential superstar in the WR group and Dominick Davis would be a fantastic 3rd down back. Reggie Bush gives them more speed to throw to, run with, and keep the opposing defenses honest. David Carr is a good QB and changing a position on a team that doesn't need a change based on one games performance is a joke.....

 

Go Patriots

Posted
Culpepper is a damn good QB -- so this conversation is over. He's also got the Pro Bowls and Stats to prove it. As does Michael Vick. You know what matters most? Vick's team, while completely uncapable of winning without him, wins with him.
Posted
Culpepper is a damn good QB -- so this conversation is over. He's also got the Pro Bowls and Stats to prove it. As does Michael Vick. You know what matters most? Vick's team, while completely uncapable of winning without him, wins with him.

 

Culpepper is not a good QB. He is one of the worst decision making QBs in the NFL. I believed this for several years and it was confirmed when he lost the most dangerous WR in the NFL in Randy Moss. The only reason Culpepper did anything is because of Randy Moss. He made Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, Gus Frerotte, Culpepper, etc. all look like fantastic QBs when he was playing. So you are incorrect...Culpepper is not a good QB.

 

The Atlanta Falcons would be just as good if not better with Matt Shaub at QB. In the one game he got to start he had a passer rating of 112.1 and it was against New England of all teams. Many teams have contacted Atlanta about dealing Shaub which leads me to believe this pocket passing QB would do just as well if not better in the course of a season. Who cares how electric a player is....you want someone that won't turn the ball over and make dumb mistakes. Enter Daunte Culpepper with his turnovers and Michael Vick with his crappy QB rating. The two most athletic QBs in the game, and everyone thought with Culpepper's speed and size (260 lbs vs. 235 lbs) nobody would be able to tackle the guy....oh wait....s*** this is the NFL. It doesn't matter how big your QB is....linebackers and defensive ends are just as big. Wow they are also fast. The game is so much quicker compared to college. And you can imagine how much faster the game is when you have an offensive line like the Houston Texans. You are dreaming if you think Vince Young's athletic ability would save him on a team in Houston's situation and if you believe he will basically run over other defenses because he is just SO BIG AND FAST....forget it

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Culpepper is not a good QB. He is one of the worst decision making QBs in the NFL. I believed this for several years and it was confirmed when he lost the most dangerous WR in the NFL in Randy Moss. The only reason Culpepper did anything is because of Randy Moss. He made Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, Gus Frerotte, Culpepper, etc. all look like fantastic QBs when he was playing. So you are incorrect...Culpepper is not a good QB.

It doesn't take long to look up the stats, and more importantly, it doesn't take long to avoid making foolish comments like this. Culpepper's best year was 2004, where he passed for 4700+ yds, 39/11 TD/INT, 69.2% completion pct., and a 110.9 rating. It just so happens that this coincided with Moss's worst season ever, 13 games, 49 catches, 767 yards (15.7 yds/catch, 13 TDs, weren't his worst seasons ever, but on the whole this was his worst season). If Culpepper was totally dependent on Moss, then why did his best season as a passer come when Moss provided the least amount of help to him?

Posted
As for your point about Matt Schaub almost beating the Patriots, that was the week after the Patriots got embarassed by the Chargers 41-17 in Foxboro. Their defense as awful at that point. Culpepper's lack of success this year was partially because the running game was non-existant while he was playing since his teammates expected him to do everything. The running game, and every other aspect of the team, stepped up when BRad Johnson became the QB.
Posted
It doesn't take long to look up the stats, and more importantly, it doesn't take long to avoid making foolish comments like this. Culpepper's best year was 2004, where he passed for 4700+ yds, 39/11 TD/INT, 69.2% completion pct., and a 110.9 rating. It just so happens that this coincided with Moss's worst season ever, 13 games, 49 catches, 767 yards (15.7 yds/catch, 13 TDs, weren't his worst seasons ever, but on the whole this was his worst season). If Culpepper was totally dependent on Moss, then why did his best season as a passer come when Moss provided the least amount of help to him?

 

Because of Randy Moss's presence on the team it allows everyone else the ability to find open space. You see it all the time with a player such as Peerless Price...excellent #2 WR but a complete bust as the #1 WR. Reason: he starts to see the double coverage Eric Moulds had to face. Culpepper had all day to throw since teams weren't exactly stacking the line and Nate Burlesson had a nice easy job with 1-1 coverage. All of a sudden he needs to be the #1 guy...what a disaster. All the WRs move up the depth chart and suddenly Culpepper doesn't have his security blanket. Which by the way it may have been Randy's worst season but it was still an excellent season compared to most WRs in the NFL.

 

This season Culpepper walks in showing he cannot do this without a top target such as Randy Moss. 17 turnovers by Culpepper in 5 games?? THATS HORRIBLE. Over 3 turnovers a game....he will never win anything with showing like that...all the athletic ability in the world could not save his weak ability to drive an offense. No more of the "sit back and launch it to Randy." Defenses now crowd the line cause they can afford weak coverage in the secondary.

 

Then we get an experienced pocket passer in Brad Johnson to walk in and.....well they start winning games....go figure. A player who knows how to run an offense and not turn the ball over....and lets compare the athletic abilities of Brad Johnson to Culepper....apparently being big and fast isn't everything is it??

 

The running game, and every other aspect of the team, stepped up when BRad Johnson became the QB.

 

Did they step up?? Or did Brad Johnson have a better understanding of what needed to be done. Making the throws that needed to be made. Keeping the defense honest and allowing the run game to be more efficient.

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