New Manny Rumor...

[Americal Man]

Foulke is the key. at least they will know in ST if he can throw. They won't have to wait until june/july to make a change. if he's ok then everything will fall into place with timlin getting a little more time off now that they have seanz and others to pick up the load.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I'm kind of a pessimist by nature, but the way I see it a bunch of things have to go RIGHT for the Red Sox to be competitors this year anyway:

 

1. Schilling back to ace form

2. Beckett healthy and at least a 15 game winner

3. Clement closer to the first half of 05 than second

4. FOULKE HEALTHY and EFFECTIVE

5. Lowell rebound

6. Loretta healthy

7. Crisp makes a smooth transition

 

I'm not worried about Schilling, Loretta, or Crisp, but the rest of them concern me. Especially Clement and Foulke.....

 

Not that I'm advocating giving up on the season before it starts-- but if we're a third place team already, why not stock up for 2007 in the process and be a slightly less fearsome 3rd place team?

 

Although I agree, you have to also consider where we ended up last season with all the things that went wrong. I think our success really came from David Ortiz and the fact no other teams stepped up in our division. This year whichever team can put together a top pitching staff will win the division (my prediction).

 

The Blue Jays have two good top end rotation pitchers both with injury problems. The Orioles do not have a closer. The Devil Rays pitching staff still sucks. The Yankees have as many question marks as we do with the exception of Mariano Rivera. The one thing we would have going for ourselves (if the deal went down) is our options. You are talking abut getting a rotation and bullpen with the following names: Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Wells, Clement, Arroyo, Papelbon, Lester, Santana, Foulke, Timlin, Hansen, Delcarmen, Riske, Tavarez, Seanez, DiNardo......not to mention...everyone of these guys are good pitchers (certainly some real gems in the group)

 

I don't think we would be giving up the division....I think these young pitchers would be just what we need to get over the other teams in the division. Top pitchers are better than top hitters (again my opinion)

[elsrbueno]

Although I agree, you have to also consider where we ended up last season with all the things that went wrong. I think our success really came from David Ortiz and the fact no other teams stepped up in our division. This year whichever team can put together a top pitching staff will win the division (my prediction).

 

The Blue Jays have two good top end rotation pitchers both with injury problems. The Orioles do not have a closer. The Devil Rays pitching staff still sucks. The Yankees have as many question marks as we do with the exception of Mariano Rivera. The one thing we would have going for ourselves (if the deal went down) is our options. You are talking abut getting a rotation and bullpen with the following names: Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Wells, Clement, Arroyo, Papelbon, Lester, Santana, Foulke, Timlin, Hansen, Delcarmen, Riske, Tavarez, Seanez, DiNardo......not to mention...everyone of these guys are good pitchers (certainly some real gems in the group)

 

I don't think we would be giving up the division....I think these young pitchers would be just what we need to get over the other teams in the division. Top pitchers are better than top hitters (again my opinion)

 

I agree 100%.

 

Between the good luck the Yankees had (Chacon and Small coming out of NOWHERE) and the bad luck the Sox had (Wells getting hurt, and Embree, Bellhorn, and Schilling sucking) we SOMEHOW still made the playoffs, and that was a small miracle by itself.

 

I think the package we'd be getting back in my proposal hurts our present team a LITTLE, and boosts 2007 and beyond a LOT.

 

I've been advocating trading Manny Ramirez since before Talksox was launched (or at least before I joined it), so forgive me if I'm a little over eager to send him packing. But to anyone who also thinks trading Manny is throwing in the towel on 2006 is mistaken. Imagine getting the package I mentioned (Erstad, Figgins, Santana, Morales, Wood for Manny, Wells, and Graffanino).

 

You're still very deep in the pitching staff because Santana is ML Ready. s***, Santana (12-8, 4.65 ERA, 1.39 WHIP) was almost as good as Wells last season (15-7, 4.45 ERA, 1.31 WHIP) and is 10 years younger. Granted, he's bound to have a sophomore slump (a lot of pitchers do) and his home/road splits were a little troublesome, but that's part of what you get when you trade for a 23 year old starter. I digress-- back to the rotation depth:

 

You've still got 7 starters(Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Clement, Papelbon, Arroyo, Santana), a deep pen (Foulke, Timlin, Seanez, Riske, Tavarez, DiNardo/Alvarez) and a decent lineup.

 

The MAJOR whole now is RH power. Too much pressure is being put on Mike Lowell to protect Ortiz, the lineup takes a big hit without Manny's production. Of course, your defense with Erstad in CF and Crisp in LF is far far far better than it was with Manny and Crisp, and that's going to save you some runs. HOWEVER, if the formula still isn't working come June, you've got tremendous pitching depth to deal from and mid-season pitching is worth way more than offense because everyone's looking to add a starter.

 

The lineup (a little different than what we're used to): Erstad, Crisp, Loretta, Ortiz, Varitek, Lowell, Nixon, Youkilis, Gonzalez/Cora/Pedroia.

 

The advantage is that you've now got a shortstop with TONS of power potential on the way, an offensive outfielder (Morales) who could help by midseason, and a dangerous speed demon (Figgins) as an extra. To me that also says that Erstad could be packaged with Clement (or Nixon could be packaged instead of Erstad) to get a slugger as a rental and Figgins could step in to centerfield (or left for that matter) and everybody from Varitek on down could be shifted down a spot.

 

Like I've been saying all along, trading Manny Ramirez makes sense if you can get the right package, and IMO that is an awesome package.

[riverside sluggers]

coming from MLB.com, the Angels have officially declined this offer. I think it was a PR stunt by the Sox FO to then turn around and say to Manny, "See we did try, try next offseason when its just 2 years/$40 million."

 

Report: Angels decline offer for Manny

Red Sox reportedly wanted Santana, Figgins, two prospects

By Mike Petraglia / Special to MLB.com

 

BOSTON -- The closer Spring Training gets, the more likely Manny Ramirez will remain in a Red Sox uniform for the 2006 season. The Los Angeles Times reported on Friday that the Red Sox initiated talks with the Angels this week on a deal that would have Boston dealing the slugger in exchange for young right-handed phenom Ervin Santana, utilityman Chone Figgins and two top prospects.

 

The paper said the Red Sox would also demand the Angels assume nearly all of the $57 million remaining on the three years of Ramirez's contract. The Angels turned down the proposal based in large part to the salary demand and the requirement that shortstop Brandon Wood and second baseman Howie Kendrick be included in any deal.

 

Ramirez, who can veto any trade because he has 10 years of Major League service, and five with the same team, is signed through 2008 with two option years after that. Earlier this winter, a potential deal for Orioles shortstop Miguel Tejada fell apart when word surfaced that Ramirez would demand the acquiring team to pick up the two extra years at $20 million a season.

[elsrbueno]

coming from MLB.com, the Angels have officially declined this offer. I think it was a PR stunt by the Sox FO to then turn around and say to Manny, "See we did try, try next offseason when its just 2 years/$40 million."

 

In real life, I think the Sox and Angels are a world apart.

 

I heard the Angels offered Steve Finley and Orlando Cabrera for Manny early in the offseason.

 

Of course Finley's in San Fransisco now, but the latest was Erstad and Cabrera.

 

While I personally like those two guys, that is not even close to a fair trade and the Angels know it-- I don't think they're interest is as strong as people in the media like to make it, or the Red Sox wish it was.

 

We're stuck with Manny Ramirez-- the good and the bad.

[Ray10]

That's still not enough for Manny Ramirez. He isn't going anywhere he will be staying in Boston. His contract is either too big or teams don't have enough to offer for him. The only way I see him leaving Boston is through Free Agency. In 2 years.

[Cityofchampions33]

That wouldve been a greta trade for us for many reasons:

We'd basically complete our future INF (besides Catcher) as Morales cna play 1st

 

1st: Morales

2nd: Kendrick

3rd: Wood

Sht: Pedroia

 

also getting Santana woudl replace what we lose in Sanchez and then some. Also I guess Figgins would be a stop-gap in left. owever we'd lose major power and not get anything else to come up with it.

[Redguitar985]

In real life, I think the Sox and Angels are a world apart.

 

I heard the Angels offered Steve Finley and Orlando Cabrera for Manny early in the offseason.

 

Of course Finley's in San Fransisco now, but the latest was Erstad and Cabrera.

 

While I personally like those two guys, that is not even close to a fair trade and the Angels know it-- I don't think they're interest is as strong as people in the media like to make it, or the Red Sox wish it was.

 

We're stuck with Manny Ramirez-- the good and the bad.

 

I agree. That wouldn't be a very practical trade. I mean, who wouldn't love it if Cabrera came back, but it's not enough to replace Manny.

[RoyNHSox]

Quote pulled from http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/05/26/truth.rumors.mlb/index.html

 

A Red Sox scout was dispatched to get a fresh look at Angels players. Angels general manager Bill Stoneman flatly rejected a swap of Manny Ramirez for Scot Shields, Chone Figgins, Howie Kendrick and Brandon Wood four months ago, but could the Ramirez talks revive? -- Orange County Register

 

I can't see the Sox, while in 1st place on 5/26, trading one of the leagues best hitters. Doesn't make sense...

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Quote pulled from http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/05/26/truth.rumors.mlb/index.html

 

 

 

I can't see the Sox, while in 1st place on 5/26, trading one of the leagues best hitters. Doesn't make sense...

 

I would make that deal in a second. With Scott Shields you can move Jonathan Papelbon to the rotation. Willy Mo Pena would be a full time starter with Coco Crisp and Trot Nixon. Meanwhile you pick up two great minor leaguers with Howie Kendrick and Brandon Wood. i think Mike Lowell could be the cleanup hitter.

 

....I make that deal every time.

[SuperManny]

No way the Angels would do that deal but if they would the Sox should do that all day. Yes the Sox are in 1st place but long term that deal is amazing. I don't really see the match for Figgins (super utility player but too good to not play full time).

 

Meanwhile Kendrick and Wood are the Angels top 2 prospects - Wood was ranked as the #3 prospect in baseball and Kendrick was the #12 ranked prospect at the begining of the year by Baseball America.

 

SS Wood (21) had a 1.055 OPS last year in A+ with 43 HR's and this year in AA he's batting .249/.345/.486/.831 with 9 HR. 2B Kendrick (almost 23) had a 1.059 OPS in A+ and .961 in AA last year. This year in AAA Kendrick is hitting .373/.400/.591/.991 with lots of doubles.

 

As has already been stated Shields is an awesome RP who could close. It would also create some free money to sign Clemens and other FA's in the offseason. I'm one of Manny's biggest fans as you can probably tell by the name but you have to do whats best for the team. Fans would freak over that deal because it doesn't help that much short term (although Wood might be better than AGonz now)

[Beckett95]

With Pujols out and the Cardinals lacking a good corner OF, what about a possible Manny deal with St. Louis?

 

What about Mulder, Luna and Travis Hanson for Manny? something like that :dunno:

 

a solid #2/3 starter we desperately need, a better bench player in Luna who would take Harris's spot and Hanson is a pretty good 3rd base prospect.

[TheKilo]

With Pujols out and the Cardinals lacking a good corner OF, what about a possible Manny deal with St. Louis?

 

What about Mulder, Luna and Travis Hanson for Manny?

 

 

Mulder's track record speaks for itself, but a 5.32 ERA in the NL worries me a bit.

 

Still, it'd be something to explore.

[Beckett95]

Mulder's track record speaks for itself, but a 5.32 ERA in the NL worries me a bit.

 

Still, it'd be something to explore.

 

although Mulder's ERA this year has been awful, he still is 4th in all of baseball in GO/AO ratio, which is good considering the Sox have on of the best defensive infields in baseball

[TheKilo]

although Mulder's ERA this year has been awful, he still is 4th in all of baseball in GO/AO ratio, which is good considering the Sox have on of the best defensive infields in baseball

 

 

That's true, plus he's pitched in the AL before.

 

If something like this comes up, you may have to do it. I would like to see Manny fetch a little more major league level talent, however.

 

Edit - I say this because before this year, Luna was basically a bench player.

[Beckett95]

That's true, plus he's pitched in the AL before.

 

If something like this comes up, you may have to do it. I would like to see Manny fetch a little more major league level talent, however.

 

Edit - I say this because before this year, Luna was basically a bench player.

 

ya, this would be a "need trade", since we only have 3 MLB starters right now and a s***** bench. I like Luna because he can steal bases and plays every position. And unlike Harris, Luna can hit.

[Papelbon58]

i would not go for that, while Mulder is great, he has been struggling and is getting older. Also, our outfield cant take the hit right now

[Beckett95]

i would not go for that, while Mulder is great, he has been struggling and is getting older. Also, our outfield cant take the hit right now

 

IF Willy Mo comes back and plays like he can, id be willing to make the move. WE NEED pitching and Mulder (who is not old, only 29) could fill the HUGE problem we have in the rotation.

[jsinger121]

Mulder is a free agent. I would never do that trade

[Beckett95]

Im hoping we sign Mulder in the offseason anyway. IMO, hed be a better fit than Zito.

[riverside sluggers]

Im hoping we sign Mulder in the offseason anyway. IMO, hed be a better fit than Zito.

 

Clement would have to be unloaded, im gonna be shocked & sick if he doesnt for 2007. Also I believe this could be Wake's last year in the rotation. He's likely to find himself a spot in the bullpen

 

A rotation of ?

 

Curt Schilling

Josh Beckett

Mark Mulder

Jonathan Papelbon

Jon Lester

 

... Damn

[CrespoBlows]

Clement would have to be unloaded, im gonna be shocked & sick if he doesnt for 2007. Also I believe this could be Wake's last year in the rotation. He's likely to find himself a spot in the bullpen

 

A rotation of ?

 

Curt Schilling

Josh Beckett

Mark Mulder

Jonathan Papelbon

Jon Lester

 

... Damn

 

Mulder? Pass. I'd rather have Zito. Mulder's been absolutely terrible this year, if some team gives him a Burnett like contract, they should be publicly flogged for being so damn stupid.

[example1]

I don't know which direction I would rather go in. I think Zito has better stuff. I've never been all that impressed with Mulder, to be honest. Perhaps I'm missing something... I don't really see either guy having a future with the Red Sox in either case.

[Beckett95]

Mulder is a ground-ball pitcher who this year has given up more HR and more Hits than usual. If he can return to his 2003 form when he was in the AL with Oakland, he is a dominating pitcher.

[CrespoBlows]

Mulder is a ground-ball pitcher who this year has given up more HR and more Hits than usual. If he can return to his 2003 form when he was in the AL with Oakland, he is a dominating pitcher.

 

Not really. Mulder has been in a decline the last three years. That usually means he won't likely be a dominanting pitcher ever again. Though, he never really was one. He doesn't miss bats, and walks too many batters.

 

Even a move to the NL hasn't helped him. Strangely his hits have gone up, and his strikeout rate has gone down. The A's were smart enough to move him when his value peaked. As a result, the Cardinals were fleeced of two good young arms, and a potential .425 OBP guy at 1st.

 

Mulder will get a big contract this offseason, based on his glory days with the big three. If Burnett can command $11 million plus, why can't Mulder? Let someone else be stuck with that bad contract.

[MANNYHOF24]

Not really. Mulder has been in a decline the last three years. That usually means he won't likely be a dominanting pitcher ever again. Though, he never really was one. He doesn't miss bats, and walks too many batters.

 

Even a move to the NL hasn't helped him. Strangely his hits have gone up, and his strikeout rate has gone down. The A's were smart enough to move him when his value peaked. As a result, the Cardinals were fleeced of two good young arms, and a potential .425 OBP guy at 1st.

 

Mulder will get a big contract this offseason, based on his glory days with the big three. If Burnett can command $11 million plus, why can't Mulder? Let someone else be stuck with that bad contract.

 

In short the brillance of Billy Beane continues

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Normally I don't listen to mlbtraderumors.com but this one makes a little bit of sense. The LA Angels will have a fair amount of starting pitchers when Bartolo Colon comes back and Ervin Santana could be made available. I'm just throwing this out there and I think it has no chance of being done but its still fun to talk about:

 

We were unable to trade Manny for Santana, Wood, Kendrick, etc.....what if we cut the deal down to Ervin Santana and lets say Kendry Morales. Well we clearly lose a lot of offense.....but maybe we could spin around now and make a deal with Florida. Obviously people have heard Willis will be available and I think Cabrera could be made available as well. The Red Sox could then spin off Ervin Santana for Dontrelle Willis....plus Kendry Morales, Willy Mo Pena and David Murphy/Dustin Pedroia for Miguel Cabrera??

 

Its a complete pipe-dream but I had fun making it up. Of course this whole thing can get thrown out when the Angels deal directly with the Marlins and trade Ervin Santana and Brandon Wood for Miguel Cabrera.

[ahhchon]

mulder is garbage

[CrespoBlows]

The decline of Mark Mulder continues. The White Sox play the role of the Doms as Mulder is the Submissor.

 

2.1 IP 10 H 9 ER

 

ERA - 6.09

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Its amazing how bad he has gotten. What happend to him?