David Wells question

[Cityofchampions33]

Thig that's frustrating is every team we try to deal with is trying to jip us big time. No way Reed is worth Lester, no way Coco is worth Marte. If we weren't in a bind then these deals might already be done.

[spartans]

Theres also the fact that Boston is so far unwilling to give one of their prized prospects, especially to a division rival no less. Its evident that is what holding them back, a trade with Tampa wouldve been done by now if that wasnt the case.

 

 

 

Hanley Ramirez ring a bell?

 

 

as for the six man rotation, why take starts away from schilling and beckett?

 

in my opinion, wells or clement have to go.

[riverside sluggers]

Hanley was struggling when he got to Double A and was already losing buzz before he was traded.

 

As I said before, the Tampa trade wouldve been done now, but hey if you think Boston is willing to make a trade of Lester for wife-beater Lugo, then the Sox FO are really dumb as a brick. As for Wells & Clement, it is kinda clear that trade suitors have been dropping like flies.

[spartans]

We could also throw wakey back into the pen but it would be hard to do considering hes so clutch in big games

[ORS]

Hanley Ramirez ring a bell?

 

 

as for the six man rotation, why take starts away from schilling and beckett?

 

in my opinion, wells or clement have to go.

They got Josh Beckett, a very high-ceiling, MLB proven, 25 y/o pitcher from the Marlins, not a division rival, in the Hanley trade. And, Hanley has slipped from a top-10 prospect to a top-40 one.

 

Lugo is a good-but-not-great, 30 y/o who has already reached his peak, and TB is expecting a top-10 prospect in return.

 

Sure, they would trade Marte away, if the return was right. But, Lugo doesn't even begin to fit that description.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Who do you guys think would be worth trading Marte for?

[spartans]

Oh I agree 100%

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Who do you guys think would be worth trading Marte for?

 

If we were trading him for a position MLB player...someone as good or better than Edgar Renteria who is still one of the better SS in the league. Julio Lugo is not one of the top SS in the league so thats silly. I'm a huge fan of Johnny Peralta in Cleveland. I wouldn't mind taking Andy Marte and possibly a pitcher to move him for Johnny Peralta.

 

I'm not saying Cleveland would do that but its what I would expect in return. We were able to get Josh Beckett mostly for Hanley Ramirez so I would think with this market we could get a Mark Prior for Andy Marte and another.

[Redguitar985]

If we were trading him for a position MLB player...someone as good or better than Edgar Renteria who is still one of the better SS in the league. Julio Lugo is not one of the top SS in the league so thats silly. I'm a huge fan of Johnny Peralta in Cleveland. I wouldn't mind taking Andy Marte and possibly a pitcher to move him for Johnny Peralta.

 

I'm not saying Cleveland would do that but its what I would expect in return. We were able to get Josh Beckett mostly for Hanley Ramirez so I would think with this market we could get a Mark Prior for Andy Marte and another.

 

Yeah, Jhonny Peralta's got some pretty good numbers. Do you think he could be a 20-hr guy each season if he stays healthy?

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Yeah, Jhonny Peralta's got some pretty good numbers. Do you think he could be a 20-hr guy each season if he stays healthy?

 

 

No doubt. I was thinking more along the lines of 30 HR, .305 AVG., 110 RBI, .375 OBP.

 

The guy's already putting up ridiculous numbers and his upside is tremendous.

[Redguitar985]

No doubt. I was thinking more along the lines of 30 HR, .305 AVG., 110 RBI, .375 OBP.

 

The guy's already putting up ridiculous numbers and his upside is tremendous.

 

So then the only question is do you want to give up Marte to get him? I don't know, I like Marte a lot. Haha, maybe we could make Marte the shortstop!

[KeepTheFaith1229]

So then the only question is do you want to give up Marte to get him? I don't know, I like Marte a lot. Haha, maybe we could make Marte the shortstop!

 

 

Marte can't play short. But that's not the question, it's would Cleveland trade Peralta for Marte? I would trade Marte for Peralta in a heartbeat.

[example1]

 

EDIT: Thoughts if Sox were to go with a 6 man rotation?

 

My thoughts are that their best pitchers wouldn't get the ball enough. I can see your point though.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Marte can't play short. But that's not the question, it's would Cleveland trade Peralta for Marte? I would trade Marte for Peralta in a heartbeat.

 

They wouldn't trade him for Marte for the same reason most teams won't trade there SS...they don't have anyone to take his place. My whole point was really the type of player I would look for in a Andy Marte deal. Someone young with great potential and in a position we need. I'm not one of those people who likes to deal young talent for older veterans. Any deal involving Andy Marte would have to be for a player 26 years old or younger. They would also need a ceiling along the same lines of Marte but take up a position we need. Since we don't need anyone at 3rd I would make a move for a top SS, CF or SP.

 

Perhaps a team like the Minnesota Twins who struggle with offense but are loaded with pitching would be willing to move Francisco Lariano for Andy Marte. Or better yet maybe the Diamondbacks want to deal with us and move Carlos Quentin since we need a CF or Stephan Drew since we need a SS. These are my own thoughts on the matter. I'd be more interested in a Stephan Drew or Brandon Wood than Julio Lugo.

[yankeessuck013]

The Dodgers are no longer involved in David Wells trade talks with the Red Sox and A's. The Diamondbacks, though, are showing mild interest in the left-hander, according to the Boston Globe.

 

Orlando Hernandez, Alex Cintron and Luis Terrero for Wells? It might make sense if either Cintron or Terrero was good enough to play regularly for a contender. The Red Sox were considering getting Jay Payton from the A's in a deal that would have sent Wells to the Dodgers and prospects to Oakland. If neither the Dodgers nor the Padres are in the mix, the Red Sox may be out of possibilities. There's been no sign that the Angels are interested, though Wells for Darin Erstad would make some sense for both teams. The A's could consider Wells for themselves in the unlikely event that they trade Barry Zito prior to Opening Day.

 

per rotoworld

[26 to 6]

Marte can't play short. But that's not the question, it's would Cleveland trade Peralta for Marte? I would trade Marte for Peralta in a heartbeat.

would you really? wow. I wouldnt. IMO, Peralta just isnt good enough. He will be a very good player in his career. Probably a multiple time All Star, but I think Marte is going to be a lot better. I dont see Peralta being like a Jeter or Nomar, but more of a Guzman, Cabrera.

 

NOTE: those comparrisons arent based on ability or anything, but based on stature as a player. Just thought I would inform you to avoid confusion.

 

 

ShillingIsTheNatural, speaking of Arizona. How about Alex Cintron? How would Sox fans feel about that. He's not a great, All Star type player, but he is a good, young, scrappy, player who i've been high on for a couple of years. He likely wouldnt cost very much.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

would you really? wow. I wouldnt. IMO, Peralta just isnt good enough. He will be a very good player in his career. Probably a multiple time All Star, but I think Marte is going to be a lot better. I dont see Peralta being like a Jeter or Nomar, but more of a Guzman, Cabrera.

 

How can you say that? In what was his first full year in the majors Peralta's numbers compare to Jeter's (2005 stats) like this:

 

Peralta: 24 HR, 78 RBI, .292 avg., .366 OBP

Jeter: 19 HR, 70 RBI, .309 avg., .389 OBP

 

How can you say he'll never be as good as Jeter, when his numbers are already similar to Jeter's and Peralta still has upside? To say he would be a Guzman or Cabrera is ridiculous. He's already a monumentally better hitter than both of them.

 

Also, if you're talking about now, the Sox need a shortstop, which Peralta is. So yes, I would trade Marte for Peralta.

[example1]

How can you say that? In what was his first full year in the majors Peralta's numbers compare to Jeter's (2005 stats) like this:

 

Peralta: 24 HR, 78 RBI, .292 avg., .366 OBP

Jeter: 19 HR, 70 RBI, .309 avg., .389 OBP

 

How can you say he'll never be as good as Jeter, when his numbers are already similar to Jeter's and Peralta still has upside? To say he would be a Guzman or Cabrera is ridiculous. He's already a monumentally better hitter than both of them.

 

Also, if you're talking about now, the Sox need a shortstop, which Peralta is. So yes, I would trade Marte for Peralta.

 

 

 

Jeter == Peralta

OPS: .836 .885

VORP: 66.3 58.2

 

Jeter got almost 200 more at bats than Peralta. I think these numbers, along with the ones above, indicate that Peralta is likely going to be one of the great next-generation shortstops. Will he be as good as Jeter? Well, Jeter is a likely hall of famer so its hard to project that highly.

 

Trading Marte for Peralta is a no brainer for the Red Sox right now. The Guardians have no interest though, nearly every team would want Peralta.

[krazeebrainz]

If the Red Sox got Peralta for Marte, I would be thrilled. I agree in that Peralta has room before he hits his ceiling. He plays a solid short-stop and hits for both average and power.

 

Marte, though covetted by many, remains unproven. I really like the idea of getting a good, young short-stop that has play-off-like experince. He was a major contributor in last year's Cleveland team that nearly overtook the White Sox in the A.L. Central. I don't know, call me crazy, but I'd bit in a minute...

-krazeebrainz

[ORS]

Jeter == Peralta

OPS: .836 .885

VORP: 66.3 58.2

 

Jeter got almost 200 more at bats than Peralta. I think these numbers, along with the ones above, indicate that Peralta is likely going to be one of the great next-generation shortstops. Will he be as good as Jeter? Well, Jeter is a likely hall of famer so its hard to project that highly.

 

Trading Marte for Peralta is a no brainer for the Red Sox right now. The Guardians have no interest though, nearly every team would want Peralta.

Prorate Peralta's VORP out over 180 more PA (that was the difference) and he's got Jeter whipped by 10 VORP runs. And, VORP is just the offensive side of the equation. Toss in the defensive metrics for last year and Peralta beats Jeter (18 to 7 FRAA) by a total of 21 runs (cumulative), and that was Jeter's best year ever in the field. Their career Rate stats as a SS stack up like this, Peralta 110 (10 runs above average), Jeter 92 (8 runs below average). Peralta won't be better in the future, Peralta is better now.

 

NOTE: those comparrisons arent based on ability or anything, but based on stature as a player. Just thought I would inform you to avoid confusion.

 

EDIT: Don't get all bunged up by this question, but who really cares about a player's stature? Can you honestly tell me you wouldn't rather have a more talented player than the one with more hype?

[Cityofchampions33]

Johnny peralta would look very ncie in a Sox uni

[krazeebrainz]

Look nice, hell, he'd be the talk of bean town! This kid is the real deal. If we ever landed this kid, names like Nomar, Edgar and Orlando would be dust in the wind.

 

If we ever landed Peralta, then a big-hitting CF would be unneccesary. I'd be more than happy with the likes of Joey Gathwright in CF at that point....Speed, average hitting, good "d" and more speed!

 

Sorry, I know that this is a David Wells thread, but I just couldn't resist!

 

-krazeebrainz

[KeepTheFaith1229]

I agree, Krazee.

 

 

P.S. I'm pretty sure ORS has my vote for most knowledgeable member.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Well apparently this Peralta thing has a lot of us talking although not a single word has come out giving it any life. I was just thinking about it and went through the Cleveland team...

 

They missed out on Trevor Hoffman as a closer

They lost one of their top pitchers in Kevin Millwood

 

Matt Clement or David Wells

Guillermo Mota or Keith Foulke

Andy Marte

 

for

 

Johnny Peralta

Coco Crisp

 

.....only in a dream world but its fun to dream.

[Redguitar985]

Well apparently this Peralta thing has a lot of us talking although not a single word has come out giving it any life. I was just thinking about it and went through the Cleveland team...

 

They missed out on Trevor Hoffman as a closer

They lost one of their top pitchers in Kevin Millwood

 

Matt Clement or David Wells

Guillermo Mota or Keith Foulke

Andy Marte

 

for

 

Johnny Peralta

Coco Crisp

 

.....only in a dream world but its fun to dream.

 

Only thing is the Guillermo Mota or Keith Foulke part. We need both of those guys and we shouldn't touch either of them.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Only thing is the Guillermo Mota or Keith Foulke part. We need both of those guys and we shouldn't touch either of them.

 

Well as true as that may be we need a CF and a SS more so if this deal was actually for real...then I would deal with the bullpen and fill the spots needed. Especially with two young talented players like Peralta and Crisp. We still have plenty of guys in the farm system who can contribute in the bullpen.

[elsrbueno]

Well apparently this Peralta thing has a lot of us talking although not a single word has come out giving it any life. I was just thinking about it and went through the Cleveland team...

 

They missed out on Trevor Hoffman as a closer

They lost one of their top pitchers in Kevin Millwood

 

Matt Clement or David Wells

Guillermo Mota or Keith Foulke

Andy Marte

 

for

 

Johnny Peralta

Coco Crisp

 

.....only in a dream world but its fun to dream.

 

I'd doubt the Cleveland Guardians would be interested Wells at this point but a Clement, Mota, and Marte deal would work (IMO) for both sides.

 

If The Red Sox then keep Wells in the rotation, their bullpen should be deep enough. They'd have Papelbon and Arroyo fighting for the #5 spot and whoever doesn't get that job is in the bullpen. (Tavarez, Seanez, Timlin, Foulke, Arroyo/Pap + Hansen/Delcarmen/DiNardo/Alvarez/Van Buren/Vermilyea)

 

Keep in mind that Vermilyea has to stay with the big club or else we lose him, and if the Sox decide in spring training to give him a roster spot there would very simply be too many arms (without having made a trade) that are MLB caliber:

 

Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Wells, Clement, Arroyo, Papelbon, Mota, Seanez, Timlin, Tavarez, Foulke. That's 12 arms without Vermilyea. They should carry 11 at most (IMO) which means it makes sense to trade 2 arms.

 

You lose Marte, think about what you're getting. A 23 year old shortstop who's proven his power at the major league level and a 26 year old potential all star centerfielder.

 

I understand that your idea is speculative-- but if the Red Sox could get this done-- they should definately do it.

 

I can see from the Guardians' angle why they might do it, because they could 2 good arms to their staff, but this would significantly weaken their offense and without Peralta they'd have Brandon Phillips and Ramon Vazquez as options at shortstop.... so I can easily them simply telling the Red Sox no on this deal, too.

[riverside sluggers]

Well as true as that may be we need a CF and a SS more so if this deal was actually for real...then I would deal with the bullpen and fill the spots needed. Especially with two young talented players like Peralta and Crisp. We still have plenty of guys in the farm system who can contribute in the bullpen.

 

Good point as there is Hansen and DelCarmen who are both just about major league ready, but I give props to the organization of starting them in Pawtucket to work on their mechanics just a bit more. Other notables being Jermaine Van Buren, James Vermilyea, Edgar Martinez, and Clay Bucholz. The first 3 are likely to be among the minor leaguers to get a September call up.

[ksushi]

Well it isn't for sure where they will start. Its likely they will end up in AAA, but spring training is there to give fringe guys like that a shot. I personally think that if we do deal Mota, Hansen will be given a good look in ST.

[seabeachfred]

Do any of you guys out there get the impression that we may have just rounded out our roster right now and will be giving the young players a chance to make the team in Spring Training. I cannot fathom why it has taken so long for the front office to pull the trigger on a trade for a CF and to trade Wells, who has demanded a trade. Someone sleeping in the office?