Terry Francona: When Loyalty goes to far.

[SCM33]

I understand his loyalty, but when is it to a point when enough is enough? If Bellhorn were on that roster instead of being released he would still be getting playing time. Millar last night had no business being in the starting lineup. We have two lefties, one of which is a better defensive option(Olered), the other is a better hitting option(Petagine). There is NO excuse for Millar to be playing 1B against a RHP, especially one as good as Colon. I dont care what his career numbers were against him. Did anyone honestly think Millar was going to produce anything? Then there was Embree earlier this year who he kept calling on to get pummelled.

 

I dont know how much longer I can deal with Kevin Millar starting on this team, I am sick of choking on my vomit watching him swing the bat. I am sick of watching him and his belly jiggle as he chases down flyballs. I am tired of the line drives that take the heads off old women in the stands. I am tired of the weak loopers to SS. I am tired of Terry Francona sticking by his boy. I swear Kevin Millar has naked pictures of Terrys wife and threatens him with him. Have mercy on Redsox nation Terry, take Kevin Millar out.

[sarasoxfan]

it makes me sick, and I dont get it all.

[riverside sluggers]

after he gave up the 3 run homerun to seal the deal 13-3 on 2 outs, tito kept him in there to get the final out--i was hoping to see cora get called upon (1) obviously would be better than remlindinger (2) curious to see cora pitch

[RedSoxRooter]

it makes me sick, and I dont get it all.

Dude, you hate every player on the team. Is there a single member of the organization you don't hate?

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/search.php?searchid=26794

[sarasoxfan]

I hate remlinger. millar, bellhorn and you for asking the question, thats it.

[sarasoxfan]

oh and PS: I hated embree

I like francona, though I am not so sure about his blind loyality thing...

 

schilling I like as player (not as a closer) and hate off the field--the bush/big yapper thing..

foulke I dont really have a problem with off the field...but I do on it.

 

 

that covers it.

the defense rests.

[SCM33]

Does anyone else feel this needs to come to an end? Is everyone else ok with him playing the people he is loyal to no matter how much they suck?

[sarasoxfan]

huh?

[Sox fan in Tex]

No, I think we all agree with you, Sweet Chin Music. Millar shouldn't be starting. In my eyes Petagine or Olerud should be getting the start. But you know what? Maybe there is more than we as fans know. According to Francona, Olerud isn't capable of starting everyday. And maybe Petagine isn't experienced enough. Let's just be satisfied with our four game lead and trust Tito's judgement. Who knows... let's give it a little more time and see where things go from here. We all know Millar is better than this, so I'm sure his best baseball has yet to come. Besides, what we should be complaining about is pitching anyway.

[sarasoxfan]

...and let's just support our president and not ask questions...nice pasty post.

 

sorry....there is no excuse for starting millar at any position.....we dont have the time to give...you cant have an inning start with a sure out...thinking like that is for losers, and you'll regret having that attitude when you're sitting there in texas playing with yourself in October while the yankees are in the playoffs.

millar isnt just in a slump..he has sucked all year and I dont know how many more games anyone needs to see that...

conjecture, second guessing and questioning is part of what this site is all about...sitting around smiling and agreeing with everything--aint going to happen here.

 

sorry Tex, maybe that slop works from the white house but it aint making the grade for this fan.

[RedSoxRooter]

Besides, what we should be complaining about is pitching anyway.

Exactly. Hell, we have the best offense in the league even with Millar not producing.

 

We scored 4 runs last night and lost by 9. If this season goes south, it will not be Millar's fault. It would be that our Ace and Closer went down with injury.

[riverside sluggers]

so Millar grounding into 3 double plays the last 4 games didnt hurt the offense?

[riverside sluggers]

no offense Sox Fan, but hasnt Red Sox Nation been waiting since April for him to just break out and start producing?

[RedSoxRooter]

so Millar grounding into 3 double plays the last 4 games didnt hurt the offense?

No, it sure did. So did Graffinino's.

 

But the 10 runs the bullpen gave up hurt worse last night. (L 13-4)

Wells and the 5 run first and 6 total runs in 4+ innings hurt worse on Wed. (L6-5)

The grand slam the bullpen gave up on Tuesday wound up not hurting anything. (W 10-7)

And the 4 runs the bullpen gave up after the 7th inning on Monday hurt us more. (L 6-7)

 

In those last four games the pitching has let in 35 runs (8.75 runs/game). The offense scored 23 runs in those games. That's an average of almost 6 runs per game (5.75 runs).

 

So, no. It's the pitching.

[ORS]

Exactly. Hell, we have the best offense in the league even with Millar not producing.

 

We scored 4 runs last night and lost by 9. If this season goes south, it will not be Millar's fault. It would be that our Ace and Closer went down with injury.

Many said the offense was producing fine with Bellhorn, but we've been better with Tony G. We don't even need to make a trade to upgrade offensively AND defensively from Millar.

 

Pitching IS costing us games. But if that is the case, wouldn't it make sense to put the most potent offensive lineup on the field to cover the pitchers' asses?

[noonanberg]

Francona is actually a bad manager in general. You can't name a lot of great decisions he's made. And yes he is too loyal (see Millar and Embree). The Red Sox refuse to get a MANAGEr and as a result when they start losing the talent, they'll start losing games.

[elsrbueno]

I'll agree that pitching is the team's biggest problem, but just because the pitching sucks doesn't mean Kevin Millar belongs in the lineup.

 

Maybe if we had a first baseman who could actually play defense, and if we kept Molasses Millar's fat ass out of the outfield that would make the pitchers BETTER, or at least give them a better chance out of the gate.

[RedSoxRooter]

I just think picking on Millar is easier than coming to grips with the fact that our pitching sucks.

 

A good example is when people complain about hitting into double plays when we score 6 runs in a game. Nobody would care about the double plays if the score was Sox 6, Detroit 1.

 

And don't totally get me wrong. I want Millar to hit better (his defense has been the same for the last 3 years). I want him to pull out of it. And if there were a better sollution, go for it. I'm not against Olerud or Petegini at all. Sure, put them in. I don't care - BECAUSE WE HAVE ENOUGH OFFENSE.

[riverside sluggers]

we arent just picking on millar cuz its easy, besides look at the bazillion posts about Mike Remlinger

[SCM33]

Ill agree that pitching is the number one problem. The thing is however, it seems like he gives everyone else a day off just to get Millar in the lineup. Now I know that Manny wanted a day off, still Id rather watch Stern play LF than Millar. Stern would have done just as well at the plate, with a little more excitement. He looks god awful swinging the stick. Every at bat same thing....bounce one to the third base coach, pull it into the stands 300 MPH, take an awful swing at a curve and foul it off to the right, then pops up to an infielder. Im tired of excuses to get him in the lineup. Terry will go, "oh hes hitting .600 in his career against this opposing RHP" yet hes only 2/3 against him. Every day he finds a way to get in the lineup, tonight it wouldnt surprise me if he sat Papi and gave the start to Millar just to "get Papi some rest". I am sick and tired of you Kevin Millar, be a man and say "Terry, its in the best interest of the team that I dont play". I would have so much more respect for the guy if he just admit that hes got nothing left. Instead we see him on the Friendly Scoop and listen to him on WEEI saying "its a slump", "look at my career", "last year i was slumping", blah blah blah. Take a seat Millar, grab some pine.

[mosox]

I don't get why he had Cora warming up in the pen Thursday night. Suppose Cora hurts his arm tossing? The what happens to the infield depth?

[yankeessuck013]

we wouldn't have DFA'd bellhorn

 

and we would be screwed

[SCM33]

Francona is actually a bad manager in general. You can't name a lot of great decisions he's made. And yes he is too loyal (see Millar and Embree). The Red Sox refuse to get a MANAGEr and as a result when they start losing the talent, they'll start losing games.

 

 

I disagree. Maybe you missed the 2004 postseason. He does an unbelieveable job babysitting all the babies on the team and trying to keep everyone happy. Terry deals with a lot of crap and he is the lowest paid manager in baseball (which is embarassing considering the crap he goes through). The only thing that bothers me is his loyalty to players who shouldn't be playing. There is not much else he does that bothers me. He is the perfect manager for this group of guys. If Lou Pinella were here half these guys would have been traded, asked to be traded, be very unhappy, asked to be let go or would constantly be fighting with Lou. Can you picture Manny telling Lou he cant play? Can you picture Ortiz telling Lou he wants to hit third not fourth? Can you picture Manny not running out a ground ball? It would be ugly. I dont think many managers in baseball would be able to deal with the crap that Terry deals with with the exception of Joe Torre.

[yankeessuck013]

Olerud-Millar: John Olerud started at first base on Friday night, while Kevin Millar, who hasn't homered since June 4, sat out.

 

Francona wouldn't say whether Millar's playing time is going to decrease down the stretch.

 

"I haven't even spoken to Millar. I would never feel comfortable sending a message to a player through the media," Francona said. "If I have something to say to a player, I have to tell them before I ever do something with the media. That's just in fairness to everybody. I think Olerud's a good hitter. I guess my point is, we're trying to win the game tonight. This is the best lineup I thought for tonight."

[noonanberg]

That's just the thing, the Sox let the players do what they want. It's sickening. It is the manager's job to tell the players what to do and not the other way around. That's what cost us the 2003 ALCS and that's the problem with Tito. It's just lucky for Tito the Sox were up 10-3 in the 2004 ALCS or he'd be a goat too.

[riverside sluggers]

yes cuz him making decisons on games 4, 5, 6 all come back from behind wins; were "faulty"

[GhostofMalzone]

I understand his loyalty, but when is it to a point when enough is enough? QUOTE]

 

 

Tito has a tough job. A balancing act to the nth degree. Things happen before during and after every game that we know absolutely nothing about. I find myself saying, “Why the hell did he do that?.....that was dumb” in my opinion it was dumb, But that’s easy for me to say, I’m not managing the Red Sox in the middle of a pennant race. I don’t have to answer to the public when things go wrong. I don’t have to play nurse-maid to a bunch of bolted ego’d athletes. I can’t imagine what it would be like spending just one day in Tito’s shoes.

Baseball’s been this man’s whole life, He’s had something to do with baseball from day one (His dad was a major leaguer) it’s in his blood and I’m almost certain that his interpretation of loyalty has a great deal to do with that. Why so much loyalty to Millar?

I wouldn’t venture a guess. That’s in Tito’s head, But, I do understand. We’ve all had certain people in our lives that we were loyal to that maybe we shouldn’t have, relatives, friends, co-workers and for reasons only God knows.

But, We gave them every chance we could. Tito’s no different, But if your in the limelight even a basic human trait like loyalty is subject to question. Loyalty to your team and teammates was a fundamental part of the game at one time. Now it’s all but disappeared from the game.

Multimillion dollar contracts and Corporate endorsements have taken it’s place.

 

I love baseball. But over the years I’ve come to realize two things, Baseball is just a game.

That’s all it is and all it ever will be, and baseball is it’s own worst enemy.

[stevece80]

Considering Francona told Bellhorn that before Graffanino was even acquired that he had likely lost his job.....

 

Yeah, he'd be sending him out there every day. Seriously, get a clue.

 

And where is far, who is loyalty, and why is he going there?

[Sizzlin22]

That's just the thing, the Sox let the players do what they want. It's sickening. It is the manager's job to tell the players what to do and not the other way around. That's what cost us the 2003 ALCS and that's the problem with Tito. It's just lucky for Tito the Sox were up 10-3 in the 2004 ALCS or he'd be a goat too.

Your radical ideas of "telling players what to do" include benching players for running into outs. You are an idiot, as dumb as Terry is, he's a better manager than one you would make.

[riverside sluggers]

noonanberg, didnt Tito tell Sveum to give Roberts the signal to steal 2nd? of course one of the best moments of the New York series on a cold late October night