Official Trade Deadline Thread

[ACL BoSox]

I have a feeling the Sox are going to pull a starting pitcher out of their asses, however Epstein has stated that he does not feel Clement has enough value for Garciapara, which is the only apparent deal right now. Oh Well, 3 hours til the deadline.

[Zenny]

Two hours remaining and nothing doing. I don't think the Sox make a major deal today, possibly a waiver trade in August.

[Zenny]

10 MINUTES LEFT!!!!! The Sox are reportedly interested in Jose Cruz Jr.

[RedSoxRooter]

6+ left...

[schillingouttheks]

the d-backs said they will not release randy johnson even though he waved goodbye last night, sucks for the yankees.

 

reportedly they said it yesterday.

[Zenny]

From Rotoworld:

 

The Red Sox, Cubs and Expos were still talking about a three-team trade at the deadline that would have sent Nomar Garciaparra to Chicago and brought Boston Matt Clement and Orlando Cabrera.

There's still a chance that a deal could be announced within the next 15-20 minutes.

 

That was posted at 4:34 PM. Everyone, hold your breath for the next 20 minutes!

[sarasoxfan]

I hard its done, they traded nomar, details to follow

[Tek04]

yea same here, and i want to know who we got

[sarasoxfan]

I heard clement and cabrera.

[sarasoxfan]

carbrera and meintkiewicz

[schillingouttheks]

i am so happy with this. cabrera is a young superstar, mientkewicz will be graet at 1B for us, ortiz the DH, and millar could play sometime, hes starting to get hot and also my respect.

[sarasoxfan]

we also got roberts from the dodgers

[Tek04]

Originally posted by sarasoxfan@Jul 31 2004, 05:09 PM

we also got roberts from the dodgers

huh?

[sarasoxfan]

they said on espn we got roberts for henry stanley from the pawsox

[Zenny]

The Sox netted Cabrera, Mientkiewicz and Roberts for Nomar, Murton and Henri Stanley. I hate the fact that they traded Murton, that was just retarded.

[NomarMannyOrtizzle]

Well Zenny, he's a prospect so u hate the prospect of trading him, but there are just some moves u need to make. The trades today will greatly help us.

[Zenny]

Originally posted by NomarMannyOrtizzle@Jul 31 2004, 10:40 PM

Well Zenny, he's a prospect so u hate the prospect of trading him, but there are just some moves u need to make. The trades today will greatly help us.

I completely understand, but giving up Murton in this case seemed unnecessary. Wasnt' giving up Nomar enough? That was my main beef with trading Murton.

[Beaneater]

I may be publicly displaying my ignorance here, but can someone explain how this helps us? In place of certified heavy hitter Nomar, we have a SS batting 75 points lower than Nomar this year, a SS who apparently wouldn't know an extra-base hit if someone chucked one at his solar plexus. Admittedly I know absolutely nothing about Cabrera other than the '04 stats that I just looked up, but this seems far from an upgrade to me. How many runs is Cabrera going to save us at SS instead of Nomar? OK, now how many fewer runs are we going to score with Cabrera hitting instead of Nomar? Seems to me that we lose there.

 

And we get Doug Mientkiewicz as our 4th, repeat 4th 1B. Again, I'm almost totally ignorant about Dougie, but a quick look at his stats suggests to me that he's not even in Ortiz's universe offensively, which is probably not fair since Ortiz isn't really a 1B. But Dougie isn't even within smelling distance of Millar at the plate either. So we traded for... another McCarty?

 

And is Roberts going to replace Damon in CF? Tee hee hee. Maybe he'll replace Trot in RF while he's injured.

 

So I'm feeling a little befuddled about this trade, baseball-wise.

 

But perhaps more importantly, the Nomar trade sucks for any fans who feel the same way I do. Nomar has been the face of the Red Sox for many years. Think Sox, and who do you think? I'm willing to bet that Nomar is at or near the top of just about everyone's list. And he's a personal favorite of mine, for what that's worth (right after Jim Ed, of course).

 

Maybe I'm just bitter and sleep-deprived, but I'm having a hard time seeing the upside here.

[Zenny]

I shall display the upside here and I like the trade, except for the Murton part.

 

First, Orlando Cabrera won the 2001 Gold Glove at SS. He's hit at least 40 doubles a year since 2001 (41, 43 and 47), he hit 17 homers last season, drove in 80 runs, walked 52 times, stole 24 bags (25 the year before) and hit at a .297/.347/.460/.807 line all with that GG caliber defense again. He has gone on record numerous times and stated that the Expos constant traveling between Montreal, Puerto Rico and playing road teams wore him down last season and has really gotten to him this season. He's also stated that he's given up on the team with their abysmal play and the way MLB has treated them, so he just hasn't tried this season. Orlando Cabrera is a fantastic shortstop and will only get better from getting off turf and having the benefit of the Monster. I am a big Cabrera fan. Did I mention he played in every single one of the Expos' games last season? At least he's on the field, which is more than Nomar can say.

 

Second, Doug Mientkiewicz is not a bad player at all. He makes contact all the time and draws a good share of walks. He walked 74 times last year, as opposed to just 54 strikouts and is 38-38 this season. He had a very good .300/.393/.450/.843 season last year with 11 homers and 38 doubles. This season, he and Ron Gardenhire had their quarrels due to his lack of consistent playing time due to lots of younger players getting call-ups and he sort of gave up. He also won the 2002 Gold Glove at 1B.

 

All the peripheral stats are there with both of these guys. They are maintaining their walk rates, not striking out much and are on pace for roughly the same amount of extra base hits. They just didn't try their hardest due to the situations they were in on their former teams, which lead to down play, but they both have a lot of upside.

 

Third, Nomar wasn't coming back, plain and simple. We can all sit and cry about our big-nosed god walking off into the sunset, but it is a fact that Nomar was not coming back to Red Sox in '05 and they needed to get something in return while improve this s***** defense.

 

They got two Gold Glovers with 40-double, 15 homer, .300 BA upside for Nomar and an OF prospect. I, for one, am very pleased with this deal. I'm still miffed at trading Murton, but it needed to be done.

[Beaneater]

Thanks, Zenny, that was useful. I do have some appreciation for the positive aspects of the trade now.

 

Allow me to be bitter and pessimistic for just one more moment. If what you say is accurate, then we've picked up two guys who can play well as long as they aren't discouraged by adverse circumstances. Seems to me that Boston can be one the world's most discouraging places to play baseball. Hmmmm....

 

Maybe that's not fair to Cabrera, who was apparently discouraged because the Expos generally suck, which isn't the case in Boston.

 

But if Dougie feels down when he has to share playing time, he's at the wrong position on the wrong team. The Red Sox have been MLB's greatest line-up churners for several seasons now, to the point where even our best players share significant playing time. And as I previously noted, Dougie's now the 4th 1B on our team. Is he really the starter most of the time? If so, that leaves Ortiz at DH (fine), McCarty on the bench (also no big change), and Millar... in RF? Or next to McCarty on the bench? It seems like the wrong time to bench Millar, who is seriously hot.

 

And I still want to know how Roberts fits into the new Sox equation.

 

I appreciate that Nomar was likely (if not certainly) leaving at the end of the season, and that complicates how I need to think about this.

[elsrbueno]

I would say the Nomar deal was a good deal for Boston. The Sox obviously knew he wasn't coming back and decided to do the deal now rather than later.

 

I am still a bit dissapointed we didn't get at least one more arm. I have very little confidence in the bullpen right now...

[Sizzlin22]

I like the trades we got value for Nomar we all knew that he was walking. We got 3 quality players with above average defense which was out greatest weakness we did well this year at the deadline I like it.

[schillingouttheks]

remember, orlando cabrera has made the all star team past 2 out of 3 years...im pretty sure. nomar, well, hes sucked this season, and hes running off his mouth and complaining instead of focusing on playing. nomar was leaving at the end of the season, and we wouldnt ahve gotten anyone for that, but now we have cabrera and mientkiewicz.

 

aside now, people need to realize this was a DEFENSIVE SUPERIOR trade. we have great bats in manny, mueller, ortiz, tek (sometimes), trot...the list goes on, but we have absolutely SUCKED with our D. orlando cabrera has to be the most UNDERRATED ss in the whole game, hands down. and remember, its not all over, as we probably wont contend for the WS this year, although the team CAN. but if this is the case (which i certainly hope its not), we are looking at renteria for a SS next year. of course people are saying, well we have cabrera at SS, well only if we could move cabrera over to 2B, and have renteria at SS, that would be great.

 

mientkiewicz, well he should start at 1B from now on. ortiz at DH, mccarty can become a base coach or somethin, and millar can split time in the outfield vs lefties with trot or somethin.

 

as far as dave roberts is concerned...i havent the slightest why we went for him, except for his speed. the only scenarios i can see him coming in is for pinch running late in games when we need runs or need insurance runs.

 

hope this helps...

[elsrbueno]

I heard on the radio that Trot might be done for the year. So the pickup of Dave Roberts helps that. I think Doug Mientkiewicz will probably start most of the games at first, with Ortiz DHing, and Kevin Millar picking up a lot of time out in RF. Roberts has a lot of range in the outfield, so maybe a defensive replacement for Millar late in games...I still like Kapler too, but he will probably suffer the most as a result of this deal.

 

Keep in mind that Roberts has something nobody else on this team (besides Pokey and Damon)...speed. This is a slow team, which no doubt has hurt them this year. Roberts can be a very solid player off the bench.

[Old Hoss]

It's about time that the Red Sox got something for a guy they knew was going to walk at the end of the year. The same people who are crying about Nomar being traded are the ones who bitched about getting nothing for Clemens, Mo Vaughn and Wade Boggs.

 

Nomar showed what he thinks of the Red Sox orginization when on Saturday, Lucchino called him, told him they were discussing a trade which would send NG to the Cubs and asked Nomar, "How is your health?" Nomar replied, "It's fine NOW." According to Sean McDonough, Nomar was going to ask for extensive time off in August anyway.

 

Nomar was a great player but the fact is, he didn't want to play for this team any longer.

[elsrbueno]

Originally posted by Old Hoss@Aug 2 2004, 07:46 AM

It's about time that the Red Sox got something for a guy they knew was going to walk at the end of the year. The same people who are crying about Nomar being traded are the ones who bitched about getting nothing for Clemens, Mo Vaughn and Wade Boggs.

 

Nomar showed what he thinks of the Red Sox orginization when on Saturday, Lucchino called him, told him they were discussing a trade which would send NG to the Cubs and asked Nomar, "How is your health?" Nomar replied, "It's fine NOW." According to Sean McDonough, Nomar was going to ask for extensive time off in August anyway.

 

Nomar was a great player but the fact is, he didn't want to play for this team any longer.

I agree with you, Hoss.

 

I read the reports today that Nomar told the Sox he was going to have to spend some time on the DL.... Now he's saying he's perfectly healthy.

 

Nomar was the Red Sox icon, and I've flip-flopped on the issue of letting him go vs signing him multiple times since December (or when the A-Rod crap first came out) and until recently, was leaning towards keeping him.

 

He's a fantastic player and has meant a lot to this city and this team... but this was the final straw for me. It was time to let Nomar go and get whatever you can for him.

 

I think the Sox did well in that respect...

[CrespoBlows]

we should of added some pitching help.

[Sizzlin22]

If he plays every day in Chicago everyone should pelt s*** at him next time he comes to Fenway.

[Old Hoss]

Originally posted by Sizzlin22@Aug 2 2004, 08:47 PM

If he plays every day in Chicago everyone should pelt s*** at him next time he comes to Fenway.

Good idea; instead of Bobblehead day at Fenway, they could have a "Hit Nomar with Human Waste" day. I want a back row seat for that event.

[elsrbueno]

This little spat Nomar's having right now with Red Sox management is really getting on my nerves.

 

Nomar: Get over it.

 

Three stooges (Larry, John, Tom): Get over it.

 

It's over. Nothing can be done about it now. Orlando's our shortstop, Nomar you're playing in Chicago now.