5GoldGlovesOF,75
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Everything posted by 5GoldGlovesOF,75
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You know you were setting me up for this reply: Ferguson Jenkins, 4,500.2 IP... ya, that's thousands (162-gm avg: 243 IP in 19 MLB years)... ... and if you read any of Bill Lee's books, Fergie's training was very Seventies.
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A Realistic View of 2023: Part II
5GoldGlovesOF,75 replied to moonslav59's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
Do you really think it's likely Cora will "take care of" his other veterans, but let Old Man Kluber go deep into the cold fake spring nights? Better get ready for a lot of porcine backside plans. -
Of course, but for the same reasons, batters like Williams and DiMaggio ruled -- especially facing a tired or predictable starter the fourth time every night. Your point about relievers and fresh arms is certainly valid... though I'd say because of that strategy, it's come full circle, as rare modern finishers like Halladay are even more valuable to save bullpens from burning out. We still don't have a definitive answer why so many pitchers seem so brittle nowadays. All these specialized intellects in analytics departments on every club, and no one can prevent injuries. Maybe it's just overtraining; are year-round dumbbells just more detrimental than back when ballplayers spent offseasons hefting boxes on loading docks or taking long walks in the snow?
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Before 1943, Tommy John himself didn't exist. There were only 16 teams in the majors... and dozens of guys threw 200 or more innings every year. Not a lot of big names, but it's hard to gauge the impact because of lost time -- and primes -- to World War II.
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Ironically, by "babying" or "taking care of" modern pitchers, we seem to see more injuries -- and not just with arms, but all over their bodies -- that invariably limit their innings. But I say that assuming your quote about old-timers being "in much worse shape" didn't mean because of overuse, but refers more to their overall physiques... because anyone who actually saw guys like Mickey Lolich or Wilbur Wood (ignore the vitals reported on reference sites) knows that they were legit workhorses or other reputable mammals. For example, after Lolich led the league with 376 IP in '71, he threw over 300 IP in each of the next three years. Wood led the AL with 376.2 IP in '72, then led again the next year with 359.1, and followed with seasons of 320 and 291 IP after that. The returning members of the Red Sox projected for the '23 starting rotation -- Pivetta, Bello, Whitlock, Houck, Sale -- threw 381 innings combined in '22 (including relief frames).
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Nerf balls! If your fastball can no longer beat batters and they rip it up the middle, it won't break your fingers.
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Agree with your first sentence. But we all know the second, while hopeful, is unreasonable. One of the counterculture mottos of the Sixties was Don't Trust Anyone Over 30. In '69, John Henry was 20 years old, and we know he lived by those words until he blew it with Lester... then along came Price. And then Bloom. If the Dodgers, as predicted, are saving to go hard after Ohtani next winter, my advice for the Red Sox is pull a Yoshida and overwhelm Urias the first day he's a free agent.
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Martin and Cora were opposites. AC always talks about "taking care of" his starters. But in the playoffs, he'll use anyone at any time -- in 2018, the entire five-man rotation both started and relieved in the postseason. They also pitched to the brink of November -- in the highest of high leverage situations with a world title on the line. Posters here blasted Cora for not "working" these same pitchers at the beginning of 2019, but none of the fans so sure the bad beginning was on the manager never seem to acknowledge the possibility that his starters weren't totally recovered yet from winning rings. Martin took care of nobody (including himself). Yes, he burnt out those young Oakland arms, but it wasn't the first time. Remember, he brought his Cy Young "closer" -- Al Lyle -- into the '77 ALCS finale in the fourth inning and had him finish the ballgame. Sparky was never the same.
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There were also lots of pitchers who threw a ton of innings every single year and didn't go on the IL. In 1969, 59 pitchers threw over 200 innings, 12 over 290 IP. By my count, 11 were Hall of Famers, and a lot of others had long careers. Maybe they weren't throwing 90 mph, but you better believe they were all throwing as hard as they could. Why were men more durable then (I still let them play catch on my lawn)?
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I bet those peanut vendors are only boiled in open-air outdoor stadiums. There's no place like dome...
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Sale: two scoreless, 32 pitches, 24 strikes, retired his final batter on a comebacker and walked to the dugout with an immediate smile.
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Matsuzaka was a legend since high school when he reportedly threw hundreds of pitches in two days to win the national title. But it was also documented by him that his arm strength in the pros was built by throwing a ton of long toss every day between starts... who knows, maybe the different size baseballs made a difference.
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Conversely, I always thought the Red Sox made a mistake of insisting on changing his training/throwing regimen that made him so successful in Japan and the tournaments. Dice-K's whole style was to nibble around the strike zone, but the Sox couldn't handle the high pitch-counts, and always yanked him before he could wriggle out of trouble. They thought they were protecting their longterm investment, but may have instead expedited his regression.
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Whaaa -- ? What about when our front office was scouting the greatest WBC pitcher of all-time: DICE-K? His gyro-ball was so invisible, not even our TVs could detect it!
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Wasn't he was the star of the last World Cup, the one where Casas said Yoshida was the most-feared batter?
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A Realistic View of 2023: Part II
5GoldGlovesOF,75 replied to moonslav59's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
I do for a bullpen role, especially with the difference in their strike-throwing reps... -
A Realistic View of 2023: Part II
5GoldGlovesOF,75 replied to moonslav59's topic in Boston Red Sox Talk
There's still plenty of time for one of your first three to pull a body part and wind up on Cripple Creek. No rotation has more downside. Strategically, I see Mata with his frame/delivery as more of a starter, even if it's one time through (with the hope he evolves into a 5-inning guy), and Walter -- with his as-yet-unhurt Sale-type stuff, as a lethal reliever. -
I have a Grade 1 strain of my hamhocks overtyping about it.
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Big day for Red Sox and fans marching towards '23: Chris Sale pitching in a baseball game! Instead of a bullpen cart, the plan is to drive him to the mound in an armored car.
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I'm biased, but in any ranking of Yankee/Red Sox players right now after Judge, I think I'd take Raffy Devers next.
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Well, it is for guys like Oddanier Skeeter Mosqueda.
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Turn-of-the-century Sox fans may recall the dashed promise of a pitcher called Paxton Crawford. Now we know he was just a construct, a preview of a future transition, from a passed-his-primetime pitcher (whose time is passed) to a hopeful with a last name that signifies a World Series winner (Game 2, 1986; beat Doc Gooden... more famously, Steve bailed Bob Stanley to win the key Game 5 of the LCS that kept Boston alive).
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Or healthy...
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You're all pessimists. Why can't you see the Red Sox pitching staff as half-full?
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They're lights out every October. By the end of the AL playoffs, the Yanks' bullpen turns the lights out on their season.
