Hugh2

technically they'd be saving about $7.5 million a year, but yes I agree that they're going to want more salary relief than that.

Are Zanetello and Jordan really that valuable? You have to give someone up

Ideally you want guys on your bench who can play multiple positions, with someone who can play around the infield, someone who can play around the outfield, someone who can play the corners (1B) and your second catcher. And within that group you want a guy or two who can pinch run, and steal some bases. I suppose they could give Yoshida a 1B mit and say hey, you're our bench 1B/LF/DH/pinch hitter. But that still is stealing away some roster flexibility and sitting a guy 1/2 the time who is making who is making $18 million a year. But in an ideal world, I completely agree with you. I'd love the Yoshida for Arenado swap. It would be perfect for us, but it might not fit what St. Louis is looking for. Because they want to shed salary. I think it's also worth mentioning that me speculating what an Arenado trade may look like is not necessarily an endorsement for bringing him here. I'm just conversing over what is seemingly the chance of it happening.

True, and there's a broader debate to be had after this statement but....Is Yoshida a lock for DH? like....do we look at Yoshida and say, oh wow there's a guy who has to DH on our team because he's so good. Not trying to water down the roster problem he creates if he's not DHing, I acknowledge it, but I also don't think we should prevent ourselves from getting better because of it. Not that Arenado would make us better, I have my reservations about him.

Sox would effectively have Arenado on the books for 3 years 19 million per for giving up their 27th and 33rd ranked prospects. I don't completely hate it, what I don't like is the $19 million on the books for the cost conscious Sox. But if Arenado was healthy and could even just be a 3 WAR player, play good D and push Devers to DH it would be worth it.

BTV accepts this trade. Boston Gets: Nolan Arenado and $19 million cash. Seattle gets: Nazzan Zanetello Blaze Jordan

In their prime, Arenado and Story were one of the best infields I've ever seen from the left side. 2016-2020

If Duran/Rafaela are two of your starters, an Abreu/Refsnyder platoon would be great. Refsynder the last 3 years put up an OPS of 1.005/.828/.941 vs. LHP and Abreu hits .825 vs RHP and plays GG defense. His role should be platoon corner outfielder (preferably LF) until Roman Anthony comes up. Then he's a 4th outfielder, righty bench bat.

I’m fairly certain Grissom would get an opportunity to start over Romy/Herbandez

There's no IL during the offseason. There's a reason why guys like Luis Perales and Patrick Sandoval are on the 40 man right now.

That's what I'm saying. Do we have any candidates? Sandoval, Perales, Chris Murphy? I wonder if I'm forgetting anyone. So there will be a few 40 man spots open up by the beginning of the season.

At this point, I think if someone like Braiser was signed, it probably happens later in the spring when they can add someone to the il to make room for him on the 40.

Let me try rephrasing my point. You quote me and pass off my examples as me making definitive statements. I told you that was not the case, and If I led anyone to believe so I apologize. I don't know exactly what the Sox budget is. I don't know what the exact opportunity cost of signing O'Neill for $21 million, what I do know is there is one. So, my examples could be amorphous, this is why I never saw your comment for the "AHH HAA GOTCHYA" moment that maybe you thought it was. If we go by the last several years, one could infer we are at or close to the budget. If you wanted to put a gun to my head I'd say it's about $225. And let me point out once again that this is conjecture but I believe that budget is amorphous and not every player is the same. They'd probably be more willing to break that budget for Soto than Bregman. You're right, I don't know that Buehler was only signed because O'Neill wasn't offered a Q.O. But I do know the roster would look different. We also have to factor in the offseason is not over, we do not know what extensions are coming that play into 2025's budget that also might not of been possible if they're operating under a budget and they had an extra $21 million on the payroll. RHB is a need, and I get people want to replace those home runs. I do too, I also wanted pitching, pitching, and more pitching, a second baseman, a catcher, and extensions for the young kids. If we were the LA Dodgers I'd expect them to just cough up $21 million or have gone out and signed someone else, but they're not LA. There's an opportunity cost, if you want to tell me I don't definitely know what that is? sure, you got me there, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make and never was. Perhaps I should been more clear of my speculations.

I never said it's the exact price point were at now. I literally never said that. But if you go by the last several years one can decipher we are somewhere near that number. Given we don't know what other moves are to be made I don't think anyone can also definitely say a $21 million dollar man would not have affected other offseason moves at this point. Perhaps it has not but I certainly don't think it's absurd to suggest it may. There's a very real chance it may, that what happens when you're operating under a budget. Suggesting that may be the case is a far cry from "forgone conclusion". Also, remember budgets are more than just ONE year. Sox are under budget, but you don't think they would have planned to expand that budget a little bit if they signed SOTO? you don't think access to certain players change that. Maybe they do expand the budget for Bregman who is clearly a better player than O'Neill. But there's a difference paying him $25-30 million for 4 years vs. 7. BIG DIFFERENCE. The years probably plays into their budgetary issues as well. I don't really give a s***, the exact price point where we are on the budget is not a concern of mine, and I consider it a mute point. I don't think it made much sense to pay O'Neill $21 million dollars.

Sox seemed to have their convictions in CF, for whatever that's worth. I'm certainly not convinced that Rafaela can be better and a gold glove CF if he plays there full time. I'm also more than fine with Rafaela playing a corner and keeping Duran in CF as well.

Rafaela can still get 400+at bats in CF slide Duran over LF vs. LHP and spell the infield up the middle

deleted to reduce redundancy.

I'm not 100% convinced of anything, you act like it's a forgone conclusion we get Bregman, I certainly haven't ruled out the chance of it happening but I certainly seem it unlikely. Still, I say the pursuit of Bregman has little merit on the value of paying O'Neill 1 year $21 million. Rafaela and Duran are two of your outfielders and Refsynder/Abreu is a fine platoon with Roman Anthony knocking on the door. Also, if Bregman is going to happen there's a chance Campbell is your leftfielder, there are many scouts who think the outfield is his future home. I'm not inventing parameters in my head, I don't think anyone would argue the Sox are operating on a budget. We also have no ideal what other moves the Sox are making. Do they plan on spending another 5-10 on the bullpen? is another trade coming? are their a round of extensions coming in spring training? Looking at the budget as it is right now and saying we had room for O'Neil also assumes a set of parameters.

I apologize but I have no ideal what you're trying to say here.

True, but if he’s healthy I’d be optimistic his line would be much better than it has been in Boston. one can be forgiven for not getting their hopes up with Story. It would certainly be a good story if he has a great season

He had an .863 OPS in Colorado why set the bar so low? he has a career .785 OPS vs. RHP, If he's healthy....IF HE'S HEALTHY, I'd expect more.

If he could hit .800 OPS with plus defense that would be amazing, and I think he can if he can stay healthy.......IF he can stay healthy.

And if we weren’t cheap, we’d be looking to do a whole lot better than O’Neill anyways. Hence my argument defending not giving him a QO. we’ve done really well in that department. Renfroe/Duvall/O’Neill. We don’t need to spend $21 million dollars on RHB who can play corner outfield if the opportunity cost is not beefing up the rotation.

That’s fine, im just not spending $21 million dollars on O’Neill. Now if we had New Yorks and LAs budget you can get me to budge on that. but if my options are Buehler and bank on Campbell/Anthony vs. O’Neill and bank on Richard Fitts I’ll take the former.

I'm saying he has a .683 OPS vs. RHP the last 3 years and his defense has regressed to below average. Yes, that's not a guy I want starting on a team with playoff ambitions. Or, at the very least it's not someone I want to spend $21 million dollars on.