Hugh2

Is that really true? They are 3rd in the AL in runs scored, they are 2nd in runs allowed....as in the second most runs allowed. yes, pitching has been by far their largest problem.

I've seen some pretty insane takes here but saying that prospects don't get traded for MLB players is just pretty crazy. And then to say they were not legit prospects on any scouting sites at the time (When they were legitimately on every site) is just...well absurd.

I never said he didn't, and that's exactly why he holds value to a team that still has to throw a guy out there every 5th day if they're trading away a pitcher. Sometimes Prospects for star deals also involve other MLB players exchanging teams. If I'm trading a guy like Pivetta, it's because he's packaged up with prospects to get a better pitcher back in return. Of course, everything is relative to the other team's budget and needs...maybe that team needs a first baseman, we could give them a free one.

You're delusional dude and your opinion is 100% hindsight and based on erroneous and absurd claims. Which I suppose one has to do when they have ZERO argument. Please present evidence that Moncadas stock was driven by his agent???? Kopech was also ranked highly as well. At the time of the trade Moncada was ranked top 5 by all of MLB.com/BA/BP Kopech was 16/32/36 respectively. Are you seriously making the argument that teams don't trade minor league prospects for good MLB players? like what literally happens all the time just doesn't magically happen in your book. So guys never get traded. I get having a difference of opinion, or not wanting something to happen and there's nothing wrong with that but what we have here is you just denying reality. Maybe I misread your original statement but you left me with the impression that top prospects do not get traded for star MLB talent. That's just flat-out wrong. Pedro Martinez traded for Top Prospect Carl Pavano. Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez were traded for Josh Beckett. Red Sox traded Casey Kelly for Adrian Gonzelz. And these are just Red Sox examples off the top of my head.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but when a guy like Pivetta is untradeable.....you know your pitching sucks.

But you're giving up 6 prospects, taking Casas out of your lineup, and putting Hosmer in. Getting Bednar back is nice, but if I'm giving up that much of our prospect currency I'm getting starting pitching back in return. Pitching was so much more the problem than the offense this year. To me Casas is more untradeable than Mayer, that's not to say that I think he will be better and I'd expect the world back for Mayer and that's not say I'd trade him but I'm very skeptical about trading a guy who you hope to be in your lineup next year and who you also hope to eventually be a middle of the order bat.

Way too short of a sample size, but catchers are notorious for developing late, and McGuire has the D to be a big league catcher. This Broadway kid looks like he could have the stuff to be a bullpen stud if everything breaks right. Would be assume This turned out to be like the heathclifd slocumb trade 2.0

any of those guys are capable of playing LF/DH

I don't think he is either. And my expectations are probably too high for how good the rotation should be next year.

That's not a very good rotation, it's ok rotation if Paxton performs and Sale comes back strong. Can both those things happen? maybe, but even then it leaves me wanting more. To be fair, the rotation isn't very good now either.

If you are ok with the physicals, maybe Nate is the guy.

Yeah, there's no easy fix here, to some extent fixing the rotation is going to have to be dependant a little bit of health and luck. With me the thing about Sale is his injury history is legit, but more recently seems to be fluky....so is the arm ok? if the arm is ok then I have some level of confidence that he should come back fine next year. But I want an ACE added to the rotation because you can't count on that. If Sale does???? then you have a WS caliber 1-2 punch in your rotation.

If you're losing both Eovaldi/Wacha, and you don't think Sale can stay healthy to stay in the roation or shouldn't what is the rotation next year??? Pivetta Paxton Bello Winckowski Crawford You mine as well raise up the white flags now. Do we even know Paxton can stay healthy? I have zero confidence in Crawford/Winkowski being MLB starters, they just aren't that good. I think Crawford can be a swingman. I think Bello could be good, but is he going to be good in 2023? or is he going to struggle for a year or two before he's an established MLB starter? That rotation could EASILY be disastrous. That rotation doesn't need one guy, or even two guys, but three guys added to it at least. Even if Sale is healthy you still need a few guys, If you're signing a Rodon/Scherzer/Verlander/Degrome all those guys are going to cost a lot more than a QO and come with multiple years, especially the younger of the bunch. So if money is the concern it's going to cost even a lot more to fix the rotation outside of a QO. There is of course the trade market, but if you're buying two to three starters there you are effectively selling off your entire farm.

I get not signing Nate to one, I think we'd be happy if Wacha took it. Could really use him in the rotation next year. Regardless, 1 year deals don't prevent them from signing other guys. In other words, guys accepting QO's aren't preventing them from resigning Bogaerts or extending Devers.

If he's healthy he provides 1000000% more value as a starter. His latest injury seems to be more bad luck than anything, if his elbow is healthy and the velocity is there, he's starting.

Also, it's hard to assume Wacha comes back, he will be 31 for 1/2 of next season. He probably gets a deal, and that could be elsewhere. I think Nathan accepts it if he's offered one. Maybe Nathan is the guy you role with and you take the pick with Wacha.

I don't think we would either, but if you add three and subtracting 1 you're left with two.

We need to seriously upgrade the pitching regardless of what we do with anyone of our middling to back-end starters. Hands down the biggest weakness on the team. Bringing back the same guy and expecting better results from fringey rookies with mediocre talent isn't going to net much better results.

IDK, I question that too, but if you're going over the luxury tax anyways next year why not? it's one year and you need pitching. But at this point Wacha has probably pitched himself into one over Nathan, my guess is Wacha gets one and Nathan does not. But people forget Nate is only 32 so I don't think it's out of the question. If you can't count on Sale to stay healthy and you don't offer them to both then what's your rotation? Wacha Pivetta Paxton Bello Paxton? That could be disastrous as well. Maybe my ideal of trading Pivetta is dumb, but at least it's contingent on adding another (better pitcher). The better argument here may be they should be doing that regardless. I think that's the main take away here.

I also wonder if the Sox would offer a QO to both Wacha and Eovaldi, or if they're just picking one. If it's only one, they probably still need Piveta AND have to go out and add another starter. Especially if Whitlock/Houck are permanently in the bullpen now.

If he's the healthy year. YOu have to assume he's in your rotation until he gets hurt because you're paying him a boatload of money.

The long-term plan was to always move Whitlock into the rotation, I'm wondering if they've abandoned that plan. This seems pretty stupid to me because he didn't fail as a starter, rather the bullpen failed and he moved there due to necessity. Seems to me that the way to right the ship is to fix the bullpen....but Maybe the Sox really think a clean bill of health next year and Whitlock/Houck can be a lockdown 8th/9th tandem.

No you're not. But if you're bringing in a TOTRS, somebody has to get booted from the rotation and I'd rather have him go than one of the younger promising arms coming up. 1. TOTRS (Degrom, Scherzer, Rodon, TRADE C) 2. Sale 3. Wacha 4. Eovaldi 5. Bello/Paxton/Whitlock/Houck

You're also not getting much for those guys. And I'd rather trade a guy like Pivetta than Bello, and Pivetta has a ton more value than Wink. Pivetta plus a prospect in the Yorke category probably gets you a pretty good up-the-middle player. Not great but good.

This is true, but I don’t see any of those guys being an ACE, I have faith that Mata and Bello will be good, but probably not TOTRS, most of the other guys will either fail or be relievers. The team is more flush with starters than they’ve been in a long time, this is true, but it’s all #3-#5 talent. Even if Chris Sale is healthy (which you can’t bank on) another ACE makes you a WS caliber team. This is why I kind of like the ideal of signing a Rodon and trading Pivetta for either 2nd/RF. Really like Degrom here as well but he’s asking for stupid money. Maybe he’s worth it. Still open to trade for a TOTRS