Nick

We paid $30M penalty (100%) to acquire Moncada. I don't think Sox will go LA Dodgers but going over by $10M and paying $5M penalty won't dissuade Henry from going for another Division title. We did have some pieces come off the payroll, Ortiz, Koji, Taz and Hanigan ($32M). Young is set to come off next year and Kimbrel has a club option. (savings could total $20M if internal replacements are available for the two....maybe Kelly and/or Smith, Kopech arrives in 2018) Moon has projected current luxury tax payroll for 2017 Sox at $185M. I think Henry will live with say $225M. That has Clay B's option baked in it. So what can we buy with $40M?

Wasn't Drew the second player overplayed by his agent Boras? Nothing funnier than a player turning down a qualifying offer with no suitors willing to pay more. Like taking $12M, one year offer is a slap in the face?

It's amazing that so many of our players are either under contract or more importantly under team control for several years, yielding cheap options. Leon, Vaz, Swihart, Shaw, Travis, Moncada, Holt, Hernadez, Rutledge, Devers, Dalbec, Xander, Dubon, Beni, Basabe, JBJ, E Rod, Wiright, Pomeranz, Elias, Owens, Johnson, Kopech, Groome, Smith, Kelly, Barnes, Hembree, Scott, Workman are all under team control for 2-6+ years (for those with no major league experience on your list). 5 year and + team control starters C. Vaz 1B Travis 2B Hernandez SS Dubon 3B Devers LF Swihart CF Beni RF Moncada DH Dalbec SP E Rod, Wright, Johnson, Kopech, Groome Pen Smith, Barnes, Hembree

I will simply put Pablo on "I'll be pleasantly surprised" if we ever get anything out of him category. Craig, Castillo, Pablo, all dead money. I don't waste one moment thinking about him.

I doubt we get anything of value in return for Holt. He's cheap. We should keep him.

We are all doing excruciating painful mental gymnastics.....Signing EE will simplify much of our perceived problems. I'd take chance on his last two years of contract over Price's. That said.....we don't need to do anything other than acquire some bullpen help, and I would not even go overboard there either. See what our shortcomings are at trade deadline.... (but EE signing will go long way in recouping Ortiz' production)

EE's name is brought up because moving Hanley to DH then begs the question what to do with 1B and yeah don't forget about the worst mlb production at 3B. What is our open day line up? Masking utility player Holt as a starter at another position this year? That worked out well in LF. A mediocre defensive outfielder at best. Gets tired around July 31st. He's nothing more than an utility player.

Theo the GOD.....he'll be given credit for next twenty years of success.....

It's always a mistake to look back on a trade in a vacuum. Clay B. I believe was injured. We needed a starter. Detroit Tigers read newspapers or has access to internet. They knew Clay B was injured and Sox needed a starter desperately. Right or wrong, Sox front office FELT IT OWED TO THE FANS AND THE PLAYERS TO 'GO FOR IT'. The Tigers were in a better negotiating position. That's what the Orioles did with E Rod. Don't you think NOW they may regret the Miller trade? But at the time, they were 'going for it'. Does anyone here honestly believe Red Sox fans would be patient? Don't we all want the Sox FO at least trying to be competitive? Isn't that why Sox signed Pablo and Hanley shortly after swearing off on long term contracts that they dismantled in a trade to the Dodgers? Winning the Division after two last places is a feather in the cap for the Organization. Yep, they gave away Espinoza in the process. I'm sure all the Monday morning quarterbacks will be dissecting the trade into next decade forgetting that we did win the Division. (and a poster will point out maybe Pomeranz trade did not yield substantive return....can't win here unless the team makes PERFECT TRADE EVERY TIME.

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20161015/red-sox-roster-reset-after-years-of-tumult-outfield-looks-set-deep-into-future Her's a good article on how the OF situation has improved for the Sox.

Let me get this straight....you convinced me to spend $60M on a possible superstar just so we can trade him for Q? Oh by the way, WE'RE NOT THE ONES GETTING ADDITIONAL PLAYERS BUT WE HAVE TO GIVE UP ADDITIONAL FUTURE TALENT? Sure, where do I sign off on that trade? Really, this is how you are going to waste my money? Moncada's sunken cost is far different than others (Craig, Castille, Pablo) on the Sox roster. They have proven that YOU were wrong assessing their baseball skills........that's what I think Henry would say to Moon, the Sox GM.

I just don't see Moncada in a trade for the simple reason. $60M. What are you going to say to Henry? Have you really thought this out? And it's only been over a year.....I just don't see it.

I still would explore the possibility of signing EE and trading for Sales....it may take JBJ and slew of youngsters....Kopech, Devers, Shaw, Owens? Move Beni to CF, Young and Swihart could occupy LF spot...I would roll the dice with Moncada....bat him 9th and pinch hit for him if need be.... You can then move one of the starters to acquire a young bullpen arm. Sign another bullpen arm, surely that's not brain surgery. I doubt Moncada could do any worse than Shaw/Hill combo. Maybe start the year with Panda....if that works out than Moncada can be shifted to LF, Swihart back to cathing position..... Sales (or Quintana), Porcello, Price, E Rod and pick between Clay B, Pomeranz, Wright for 5th slot. I would keep Pomeranz because he can throw out of pen. I don't want to pay $13M to Clay to be a bullpen guy. I think EE will give us solid 3 years at least. I don't see his power diminishing. Hell I could be wrong.

Basically we are standing pat, so why don't you assume for sake of argument that they also stand pat. Maybe you can use little brain and say something like, well if Blue Jays resign so and so, etc, they would win the division.....or you can just ignore and not participate in the discussion.

What's our starting lineup if we do nothing? C Sandy 1B Hanley 2B Pedey SS Xander 3B Holt LF Beni CF JBJ RF Betts DH Young C Vasquez Utility Swihart, Rodriquez, Shaw SP Price, Porcello, E Rod, Wright, Pomeranz, Clay B Pen Kimbrel, Kelly, Smith, Barnes, Hembree, Ross, Scott. can this 25 man roster win the division if everyone stays healthy?

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mlbs-evolving-luxury-tax/ Here's a good article on widening gap

Red Sox has the highest average ticket price in the majors. The difference between the luxury tax threshhold and the team revenue is widening 'bigly'. I would not be surprised if the luxury tax limit goes north of $210M. (put it another way, major league payroll component is now significantly lower percentage of total revenue). I will ban myself from this site (volunatarily), if we do not do one of following two things. 1) go after EE very hard (if we don't get him, there will be back drop story on how another team just out spent us) or 2) make a major trade either for top of the line SP or an All Star caliber position player. Sox is a big market team. DD ain't going to stand pat by moving Hanley to DH and filling in corner IF positions on "a hope and a prayer". I would make a trade for Sales for JBJ and slew of youngsters not named Moncada, Devers, Kopech and Gromes. And then sign EE.

For sure, that attack was greatly....very greatly.

Do you think Swihart is a viable option as a starting catcher? I do. I can't believe he's THAT bad defensively with his athleticism.

So you have given up on Swihart already? Sox FO thought he was good enough hitter to play left field. Was it the original plan to move him out of catcher's position when we drafted him? If that's the case then Sox Scouting Dept has some explaining to do......

Per Providence Journal Article Encarnacion isn't a perfect fit, as he'd make the top part of the Red Sox order lean even more to the right side. And there's obvious risk in signing someone in their mid-30s to a major contract. But Dombrowski's modus operandi last winter was to locate the simplest solution and pay whatever it took to make it happen; see: David Price and Craig Kimbrel. sometimes we make it more difficult than we need to....

I think we're all in agreement that we have a pretty good ball club. The team needs tweaking, not complete overhaul. Just signing a DH will allow the Sox offense to take a deep breath and see what develops. The benefit is our farm system is not disturbed. Shaw/Rodriquez platoon at 3B can't be any worse than Shaw/Hill experiment. This will allow Moncada additional time to develop. Ideally, both Swihart and Moncada take over the C/3B positions at some point during 2017 season. Our lineup will be solid 1-9 at that point. Our starting pitching is more than adequate with Wright coming back healthy. E Rod appears to be getting stronger and has not reached anywhere near his peak. This was first full season for Pomeranz getting to start and he should be better in 2017. I suppose you keep Clay B for additional depth. I'm too lazy to look up. Any trade deadline top of the line pitcher pending FA candidates?

Mods....you need to merge this thread with Moon's 2017, Part I

Wouldn't it be the easiest thing to do to just to sign EE and keep everyone else intact? This will allow more of our younger players to develop. I'd like to see Sam Travis get healthy. We pretty much know what we have in Swihart. Let's not give up on him catching for the Sox. He is our best hitting catcher. Moncada may catch on fire sometime during 2017. Surely we're not giving up on him after investing $60M and fewer than 50 PA. We'll have upgraded LF with Beni playing the full year. I think Swihart will hit as well as Beni given the opportunity. I would trade Vasquez or Leon for a reliever. EE may not have the impact that Ortiz did but he may hit more homers than Ortiz. Someone needs to hold down 3B until Moncade is ready. He has major league tools. I'd be surprised if he's a complete flop. I would wait for trade deadline to make a major splash.

We could have waited another year? Really? Waste productive years from Ortiz, Pedey, Hanley, Betts, etc? You never give names. What was the alternative? I recall before the pitching staff got going in September we were blowing leads left and right. Everyone here have absolutely no idea what was available at what price. We gang up DD for not developing bullpen in Detroit and when he does something decisive to correct the deficiency for the Sox, we still complain. Moon you have beaten a herd of dead horses. Let it go.