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I didn’t pick some section in the middle. I picked his last 5 seasons in Boston. Why do his wins in 2012 still matter? And he went 6-11 in 2019. Are we not supposed to count that? Or is he only a proven winner in the seasons he gets wins? Also, in case you missed it, 17 wins is not a lot for 5 years. Or maybe, just maybe W-L record for pitchers really is meaningless. As for Crochet, there are concerns. But he does have serious talent. But of all the things to hold against him, won loss record tells you nothing…

If the Sox need pitching that badly, just sell and stockpile for 2026…

From 2019 through 2023, Sale was 17-18. Is that W-L record mean anything?

Fits in with our youthful pitching core. If BTV is any judge (and they often are) his value of 40.2 is well below that of Anthony and Mayer so he might be had for less. But there are risks. Stil he is worth looking into. Peralta has two team options left, both very friendly $8mill ones at that. Most likely, Milwaukee keeps him for another run, especially since Woodruff comes back next year. But they might (emphasize “might”) be willing to move him early for a player like Mayer. Beyond these two, the trade market for top starting pitchers is a mystery to me right now. And I’m not even sure about Peralta…

I did like my proposed Mayer/Abreu/Fitts package for Skubal. But Detroit at 71-71 might not be ready to sell yet. This isn’t some small market Tampa team dealing off 50% of their arb eligible players every year. Sure Detroit, like KC and Minny, is propped up by a 9-1 record vs the White Sox, but they can probably count on that next year as well. I think Skubal might be less available than we hope. Crochet can still be had. Freddy Peralta might be available. (And they SS Willie Adames is a free agent after this year. Hmmm..)

Texas? You might be right. I only assumed Atlanta because they clearly remained interested. I had my doubts any team was really even that interested in Sale. Although the story broke in August of 2023 and the offer was reportedly in July of 2022, so Sale had a few less injuries at the time. I wanted Sale to front that rotation in 2021, 2022 and 2023. Of course I was always told “you can’t count on him”, probably by a lot of people who changed to “you should have counted on him.” Maybe some of those who wanted him at closer. If Sale just missed 2020, this contract probably works out and he’s still here. But those repeated absences were just killers every year. Anyway, I get why they made this trade. Not like some others. Jon Lester for Yoenus Cespedes? Seriously? Was Cherington even aware of that contract? Why did he take MLB talent from a team that clearly still should need it? (Oakland did make the postseason that year.) Or Lackey for Allen Craig and Joe Kelly? Why would you trade 1.5 years of a dirt cheap starter for a struggling and injured utility infielder and a middle reliever, both already in MLB, when you’re a last place team?

All I said about this trade is it made sense at the time. I hated that they at a minimum they did nothing to replace Giolito (I was more on board with Houck/Bello/Crawford than most, and still am). I also didn’t like that they did no minor league depth signings beyond some guy named Criswell. Now in hindsight, the trade was a disaster. That’s not exclusive from whether or not it made sense at the time. It made sense and it still bombed. Yes, they needed pitching. Sale was doing a poor job at providing it for 4 years at that point. I get moving on and looking elsewhere. Last year after the deadline, there was a story about Bloom receiving offers on Sale the previous summer, and declining them. I’m guessing they were from a Atlanta. The alleged offers were for Sale’s whole contract and nothing in return. A lot of people were mad at Bloom for not taking that offer. Would that really have been better? I would have liked more pitching even before the Giolito injury. And certainly after it. But that doesn’t mean Sale was a logical choice there any more than acquiring deGrom from Texas would be. They had options and did nothing. That’s a big problem. Not whether or not Sale pitched. Because will we see this passive approach again?

Roman AnthonyMarcelo MayerBraden MontgomeryKristian CampbellKyle TeelMiguel BleisLuis PeralesFranklin AriasYoeilin CespedesJhostynxon GarciaDavid SandlinMikey RomeroChase MeidrothRichard FittsElmer Rodriguez-CruzConnelly EarlyWikelman GonzalezPayton TolleNazzan ZanetelloJuan Valera

Sale is a lock for Comeback Player of the Year. If he doesn’t win the award, then they need to stop giving it because they clearly don’t know what they’re doing. But this comeback is unprecedented in MLB history. That you have to go back 7 years to see a season like this from him, and to do so at age 35. No one has ever done that. And I doubt the Braves expected him to be THIS good. I’m far from a medical expert, but my daughter did a project for school on the trend of high schoolers getting TJ in order to increase their velocity, and the universal medical opinion was, it’s a sham. The procedure can restore your elbow, but it doesn’t increase your velocity from your starting point…

I hated the Price signing before the ink was dry. It turned out to be more like $174 mill for 2 seasons and some change. LA picked up some of the tab…

Nobody ever said it would. The outcome matters, but so does the process that gets you there. After all, the same people who made that decision will make future ones. I’d rather have a CBO whose unlucky than stupid.

Not to mention, his TJ was over 4 years ago. Most of us on this board aren’t doctors, but we’ve all seen enough pitchers recover from the surgery so that we have a solid grasp of the timeline…

You do realize no one thinks the Sox did well in this trade. Not even Breslow. But did it make sense at the time? You remember, back when you said you were not sorry to see Sale go, you just wish the Sox also didn’t post $17mill?

Tommy John surgery does NOT strengthen the elbow beyond its original strength, much to the dismay of all those middle school baseball parents who elected to have their sons have the procedure unnecessarily in order to get better radar gun readings and in turn scholarships and/or signing bonuses. This was a real medical issue in the early 2000s…

Well that’s a misinterpretation of everything I’ve said. Theres a massive difference between predicting injuries and expecting injuries. And if a player was injured and missed all of 2020, and then got injured and missed most of 2021. And 2022. And 2023. Are the Sox supposed to think he’s clear for 2024? And you made.a point once about Casas’ recovery from pulling a muscle swinging a bat, and how it didn’t bode well for his recovery. Well, Sale once cracked a rib throwing a pitch. But that gets overlooked?

I doubt Atlanta thought he was no risk at all. There’s been talk about the risk of injury on Sale since he was drafted. And probably before…

Because Romy would dump you! He’d do it in a heartbeat!

Priester?

Yes, Hill was DFAd…

No. I believe the front office considered Sale a high, possibly very high risk for more missed time. And at $27mill, it was too much for them to simply replace him. As the most significant injury, that made him most likely to be the dead money on the roster. And most of us felt this way, too, if you go back and read the early posts on this thread. Then Sale showed up healthy and suddenly the cries were “why did we trade him?” And “past injuries can’t predict future ones.” That’s the logic that keeps putting Whitlock in the rotation every year. The trade has turned out disastrous for the Sox. Some of us just remember how it looked in December…

Early in the off-season, it also is about valuing them over Rule 5 eligible players…

WAR projections are based on past performances and expected growth or decline. They cannot predict injuries. Steamer600 has never put out a projection that says “Will not play in 202X, as he will tear his ACL.”

Then suggest another topic…

If the Sox trade rostered players, then it’s easiest if they are one for one deals. Other teams can be hesitant adding too many players to the 40-man when they have roster crunch issues…