moonslav59

He was a major part of the cheating upgraded system. I did not mean to imply otherwise. When you look at punishment handed out for other infractions, a one year suspension was "major." Maybe you don't think it was enough, but it was one of the largest penalties handed out in MLB history. No, others doing it is not an excuse, but others going without any punishment, and some higher ups caught lying and not getting any further punishment does add context to what Cora got. The release of further evidence, after the MLB ruling exposes a much wider group of people, some who denied knowing anything, but clearly did. Other teams were caught using technology to steal signs, including the Sox and got less punishment. There is a thing called precedent when determining how harsh a penalty should be. In many ways, Cora's higher ups stabbed him in the back.

Trying to point out a major factor in our lack of success was often viewed as apologies for the CBO. No doubt, Bloom made some major mistakes, and not just with over half of his largest FA signings, but also trades like the JBJ one and all the inaction and "near misses." Bloom deserved to be fired, but that still does not mean he was the major issue for our lack of success. It seems obvious, now, to most, but this is just more of the same, but on hyper drive. Once we did not replace Kimbrell and Kelly, the ball was set in motion. Although the Sale, Bogey and nate extensions and re-signings masked much of the non spending, by keeping our team payroll budget pretty high, the 2020 season should have been a clear sign to all, the ownership financial commitment was no longer there. The amount of new winter spending fell way short of salaries lost before 2020, and despite seeing the payroll rise in 2021 and again in 2022, it still did not come close to the 2019 budget that was already trimmed of 2 solid RP'er salaries. Then, to see a $10M drop, last winter should have been the final eye-opener on where the fault should have been mostly placed. Again, I'm not making excuses for Bloom. He botched most of his largest signings, was paralyzed with inaction, at key moments, and made some bad trades, He did make several good low-level signings and additions, and seemed to do a very good job building the farm back up- both in quality and quantity, but ultimately, it was not enough. His choice to draft mostly HS picks delayed the impact from the farm. He won't get to see the results of that.

I know much of the Sox prospect talk has focused on the lack of clear good pitchers, but it's hard not to be optimistic about the future projected farm infusion. Of course, some will not pan out as hoped, and some might become just role players or barely above replacement level back-ups, but I have to say, I'm impressed by the quality and quantity of prospects that have a decent chance at making a contribution. We just graduated: 2023: Casas, EValdez, Murphy, Bernardino & kelly 2022: Bello, Crawford, Duran & Wink 2021" Whitlock & Houck Estimated graduation years: 2024: Rafaela, Abreu, Slaten, Mata, Yorke, Fitts, Guerrero (Walter, DHam, Rosier, Sogard, Lugo, Liu) 2025: Anthony, Mayer, Teel, Perales, Wikelman, Meidroth, Monegro, Hickey (Jordan, Dobbins, E R-C, Bastardo, Hoppe, Troye, Gambrell, I Coffey, S Scott, Hagenman) 2026: Bleis, Castro, Song (Paulino, Romero, Brannon, C Coffey, Penrod, Ravelo, K Campbell, Benitez, Olivares, Soto, Early, Mullins) 2027: Cespedes, Zanetello, Jo Garcia, A Anderson (Alcantara, Arias, Yuten, Sena, Reimer, Paez, Cepeda, Judice, Encarnacion)

It wasn't just the owner, but other high-ups were caught lying and covering up. No doubt, Cora played a significant role in the implementation of the cheating scheme. It doesn't lessen his culpability to find out it was going on before he became part of it, or that upper management knew of it and allowed it to continue. He did a very dishonest thing, and was punished harshly for it. He was punished more than many others, including the players. He served his sentence.

Agreed. I think it was more than 50% on ownership starting in 2019, but it seems others thought Bloom was the major blame target.

Yes, "small" when compared to many of today's contracts, but you'd think he'd be do better than 0-4 on SP'ers paid $10M or more: Perez Richards Paxton Kluber (I forgot JT on the list, which was a good signing, so maybe 3-4 out of 11 were good or still pending.) Had he gone 2-4, and I'm not talking greatness- just a decent 4.25 ERA with 25 GS and 160+ IP, we'd have been closer to not finishing last so often. The Barnes and Kike signings were $17M or more: both were not good. His two largest signings, which were not small, have started out looking bad- Yoshi & Story. Surely, this is part of the reason he was let go. These signings were a pretty significant reason we have not done well in 2 of the last 3 seasons. His biggest and good impact signings were: Turner- 12 Kike- year 1 only at 7 Wacha 7 Duval -7 R Hill -5 Strahm- 3 Renfroe -3 He did better in the $3-9M range. Bad ones: Diekman -8, Marwin 3.

Could be more than one reason. I'd put messing up 6-7 of your biggest 10 signings high on the list with inaction.

I'm getting a real good vibe on Cespedes. (Maybe we should trade him. LOL)

Encouraging. Wow, 2 pitchers on the extended list!

Inaction plus over half his biggest "actions" were failure or are looking like failures, so far. 300+ Devers- TBD 140 Story- off to a not so good start 100+ Yoshida- off to a not so good start 34- Kike- one good year/ 2 bad FA + extension) 32 Jansen- Good, so far 19- Barnes- bad (extension) 18- Martin- Great, so far 11- Perez- not so good 10- Richards- Bad 10- Kluber- Bad Had he just gone 50-50 on his big spendings, he might still be here. (Just Eflin & Nate instead of Kluber & Yoshida?)

I say that every year, with hitters lost, too, but someone always takes their place.

He's right: "it's embarrassing." "They could trade for an ace and sign Monty or Snell, and be right there!" "These guys are not the Orioles! They have $60M to spend." "Bello is the number 1, Giolito, Pivetta, Houck and Crawford...Nope! This is worse than last year, and they were bottom 10, then." "Trade Jansen for a SP'er prospect near ML ready.. a flyer." (Landon Sims?) They suggest Clevinger or maybe even Paxton. "Slaten is going to be great for them."

Hopefully, Perales gets promoted to AA, in 2024. (Maybe by the time he is, Wikelman will be in AAA.)

You refuse to see the facts. Last winter, you defended Rodon.

The 217 million dollar question. Backlash over Lester fiasco? Realization that winning without an ace was highly improbable? Think Price was the guy most likely worth breaking the over 30 guideline?

Elk is not the only poster who believes this.

Wiki has this... On February 7, 2020, Jared Diamond of The Wall Street Journal published a report of previously undisclosed details uncovered by the MLB investigation, drawn from a letter sent by Manfred to Luhnow on January 2, 2020, that was obtained by the Journal and interviews with sources.[135] According to the article, the sign stealing scandal originated in September 2016 when an intern named Derek Vigoa, who later became the Astros senior manager for team operations, gave Luhnow a PowerPoint presentation on what he called "Codebreaker", a Microsoft Excel-based program used by front office staff to log and decode opposing catchers signs and then communicate them to baserunners who would relay them to hitters. The report said Codebreaker was enhanced in June 2017 when the trash can scheme was developed. The report also said that Codebreaker was used both at home and on the road and Astros personnel continued to use it into the 2018 season. The sign-stealing operations were referred to as "dark arts" within the Astros front office.[136] Diamond's report quoted emails from Luhnow and Astros employees who said Luhnow was not only aware of but also enthusiastic about the sign stealing operations, even though he denied knowledge of them to MLB and in public statements.[137] In a subsequent Journal article, Diamond quoted an email sent by an Astros employee named Tom Koch-Weser to his colleagues which read, "'I don't want to electronically correspond too much about 'the system' but Cora/Cintrón/Beltrán have been driving a culture initiated by Bregman/Vigoa last year and I think it's working,' Koch-Weser wrote. 'I have no proof that it has worked, but we get real good dope on pitchers tipping and being lazy. That information, if it's not already, will eventually yield major results in our favor once players get used to the implementation.'"[138] The article also quotes Manfred's January 2 letter to Luhnow as saying, "'Most or all Astros players were active participants in the Banging Scheme by the conclusion of the 2017 World Series. ... The Banging Scheme was so prevalent,' Manfred wrote, 'that witnesses regularly describe that everyone in and around the Astros dugout was presumptively aware of it.'"

We understand dumping Vaz. We don't understand why the Sox would want him. (I'd take McGuire, even if the money was the same.)

What's keeping you from naming all 3? We are not Sherlock.

Please, God, NO!

The pen became a big issue as the regular season ended. Some were suggesting Kelly be left off the playoff roster. Cora was masterful that whole year. The playoffs were a showcase of Cora's ability to be flexible and to allow players to step up and step into roles they were not experienced in. We ha dstarters lining up at his door asking to be used in relief, if needed.

Doesn't "all levers" imply financial about as much as full throttle did?

It's come down to Gio and hopes for Clevinger or maybe settling on Paxton. Bummer is not a strong enough word.

No doubt. He looked like DFA material, before turning it around in the pen. Some of his strong stretches: 2021: 3.77 ERA and 3.27 FIP on June 6th (11 GS) 4.20 and 4.17 on August 17th (after 23 GS) 2022: 3.62 and 3.73 during a 20 GS stretch in May to Aug. 3.85 and 4.04 over an overlapping 25 game stretch. 2023: 2.37 and 2.73 after joining the rotation in SEP (5 GS) 3.16 and 3.28 after May 17th (8 GS and 22 games in relief)

He spent a lot. $154M/7 AGon extension (3rd highest contract in Sox history) The Vic, Dempster, Napoli and S Drew group was for over $95M in 2013. $110/8 Pedey extension was a major contract. $95M/5 + $88M/4 for Pablito & HRam was a major outlay of cash. He also signed Rusney Castillo to $73M/7 in 2014. Adjust for inflation, and Ben had a longer budget leash than Bloom, but still not as much as DD, starting with the Price signing and including trades that brought in higher salaries.