moonslav59

Yeah, a look of not even being interested. (to me)

I don't know,we seem to be taken advantage of by a lot of stiffs, unproven pitchers and mediocre journeymen. I almost feel like we've done better than expected against the best pitchers.

I was waiting for this...LOL. I've never denied a big part of this game is not quantifiable.

It's not just missing joy to me, but your point is well taken. I'm not discounting the loss of Papi as a major factor in the lessening signs of joy. I just don't seem to see (or feel, I guess) that this team has a strong will to win. Grit. Determination. Whatever you want to call it. It's just a gut feeling I've felt watching these guys all year. That being said, I've never thought watching guys break their bats or throw things in the dugout in disgust after making is the type of positive energy that contributes to a team's well-being. To me, that is not the "fire and desire" I like to see. I'm talking more about the dugout seeming more alive and caring about what's going on in the game. They seem distracted or uninterested. I could be wrong about my perception. I understand that. Trying to read body language, thoughts and feelings from a TV set has severe limitations. I've only seen 7 games live. I hope I'm wrong, and I'm not really sure that even if I'm right, "fire and desire" is really important, if the the skill is there. Maybe a few big wins when crunch time really comes can instill some fire. Maybe the desire is already there, and I just can't see it. Maybe desire can be acquired in a short time. I'll settle for a ring from a bunch of drones over a lot of excitement and being swept in a playoff series again.

I disagree. I think teams often don't put in a claim on a player they know will be pulled back, unless a trade offer is made.

A lot depends on who we pick up. If it's just a Moreland type, I doubt he and Travis will steal enough PAs from HRam to disallow the vesting option, unless we strategically make sure he doesn't by playing worse players. If we acquire a big slugger 1Bman and maybe Nunez, I think we can squeeze HRam out of his PAs legitimately.

What interesting about our second half WAR numbers is this... Our top 4 everyday player WAR guys (Nunez, Vaz, Devers and Beni) were not with the Sox all last year. 3 were added to the 25 man roster after July 2016. 2 of our top 6 second half WAR pitchers were not playing for the Sox last year (Fister and Workman). That makes 6 of our top 12 second half OPS not being on the 25 man roster before July 2016.

I used the WAR numbers from fangraphs. Some where on their site, they explain how they get their numbers . The Nunez numbers include his production from SF. Yes, WAR is greatly affected by the size of the sample size. I wish they would post a WAR per 150 game number next to their overall WAR. Second half WAR numbers may help show player trends to your liking... (80+ PAs with Sox only numbers) 1.0 Nunez 0.9 Vaz 0.8 Devers 0.7 Beni 0.6 Betts 0.4 Pedey 0.1 JBJ 0.0 Leon -0.1 Bogey & Moreland -0.5 HRam -0.7 Holt 2.2 Sale 1.2 Fister 0.9 Pom & Erod 0.7 Kimbrel 0.4 Workman & Price 0.3 Abad & Barnes 0.2 Kelly, Maddox, Jonson, Velazquez 0.1 Taylor, Hembree, Smith 0.0 Porcello, Moreland, Elias -0.1 Martin -0.2 Reed

You could very well be right, and it's hard to see and identify "desire" or the lack of it. It's just my opinion.

Lack of energy, excitement, or as I called it, "fire and desire". We look lackluster. (Note: you don't need "fire" to win, but "desire" helps. I also realize that this has just been my own personal perception.) This and the lack of fundamentals are my two major points against JF. I don't have any big beefs with his in-game decisions, and although his line-ups are not what I would create, we've scored about as much as we could expect with all but Vaz in serious decline from last year.

-0.8 I only listed players with 150+ PAs. Holt has 122. Project him to 610 PAs at this same rate, and he'd be at -4.0 for the year.

It's been a season long pattern, in my opinion.

I wouldn't have even brought it up. I didn't think it was any big deal. I've already made my point about my perception that we have been lacking "fire and desire". I only brought up the team's reaction to JBJ's big HR as a response to this... "...All you need are a couple of nice wins to return to the right frame of mind and look energetic as all get out. ... ...This sure didn't look like a bunch of disheartened losers to me. Heck, I'm seeing a pretty decent pulse ... I'm not upset over the lack of energy, especially after the 19 inning night before, but I will respond to anyone trying to make it sound like this team is jacked-up with excitement. Excitement doesn't win games, thankfully.

I see it that way too. Take away the fundamental mistakes alone to a point where we're about average, and we'd have a much better run differential and a few more wins. I'm not even addressing the in-game decision making.

Hardly any rejoicing or energy at all after JB's HR. It was like he was coming back to the dugout after a sac fly in a 10-0 game.

I see HRam as our DH next year-like it or not. Forcing HRam to play 1B FT is asking for trouble. Now, if we could find a way to get rid of HRam and sign JD, I'd listen. How's this? Trade HRam, Bogey, Groome and Ockimey for Votto. Sign: JD Martinez & Cozart. (I'm dreaming: I know.) 1. Beni LF 2. Betts RF 3. JD DH 4. Votto 1B 5. Cozart SS 6. Devers 3B 7. Pedey 2B 8. JBJ CF 9. Vaz/Leon C Bench: Leon, Hernandez, Lin and Holt

22 Games left- about an 1/8th of a season. 6 vs TBR (3H/3A) 4 v HOU (last 4 of the year) 3 v OAK 3 v TOR 3 @ BAL 3 @ CIN If we can't keep the lead with this schedule, then we weren't all that good to begin with. Let's look at our WAR leaders (fangraphs) at the 140 game mark: 7.5 Sale (1st among pitchers only) 4.0 Betts (28th among everyday players) 2.9 Kimbrel (26th) 2.8 Pom(32nd) 2.4 JBJ (82nd) 2.3 Bogey (88th) 2.0 Beni (108) 2.0 Pedey (109) 2.0 Nunez (111) 1.9 Porcello (73rd) 1.7 ERod (87th) 1.2 Vaz (176) 1.2 Price (133) 1.1 Fister (138) 0.9 Barnes 0.8 Moreland 0.8 Devers 0.7 Kelly 0.5 Hembree 0.4 Abad 0.3 Workman, Boyer 0.2 Leon, Johnson, Maddox 0.1 Marrero. Velazquez -0.1 HRam, Young, Taylor -0.2 Reed -0.3 Scott -0.5 Wright

There's a thing called "google". I heard it helps you find things on the internets.

All it takes is two games and your mood flips 180 degrees. Did you see how excited everyone was after JBJ's 3-run blast? I didn't.

...on the "internets".

We will probably fave the Guardians, so maybe you are right.

My guess is that while GMs value what you did the last year, they look beyond just one time frame of data. I agree on the idea that DD will be looking for a big splash power hitter this winter, and I'm not talking the 15-25 HR power of Hosmer or Cozart. I'd be lobbying for JD Martinez, if we could play him someplace other than DH. Stanton or Votto seem like the obvious choices, but both get paid a lot, and paying money plus giving up several top young players is usually something I am against. I loved the Sale trade, because it was just prospects. His contract was a bargain. I'm not saying I'm against trading for Stanton or Votto, but I'd like to see the offer before agreeing on it. I might go with... Bogey Groome Chavis or Ockimey Beeks or Shawaryn (If we could get them to take HRam off our hands as a salary offset, I'd add other prospects like Dalbec & Lakins

I've only followed baseball from the late 60's and the 162 game schedule was present then. We've had a lot of days off since the all star game, and the allstar break is longer than ever. I can see needing to gibe Pedey a break, but not 22-24 year olds. I get the sitting for slump argument, but these youngsters should not look or be tired.

Fair enough. I still think the modern player is babied too much.

Betts has 3 arb years. This winter will be his first, and players do not get full value their first arb year, especially after a "down year". I'm not great at predicting arb contracts, but Mookie might make $40-50M total in the next 3 years. That means the extension was really about $55M/2. To me, that's borderline "lowball". It's the first offer, so there could be some back and forth. If Betts doesn't want 10 years, I'd go as high as $135M/6, which is really about $85M/3 after arbs.