moonslav59

So? What's your point? I got schooled and soon after posted this: Didn't Craig have 5 years? I think you're right. We may have to eat his contract or hope he becomes some sort of use- even if as a platoon DH.

I'd still like to have Frazier over Pablo right now, but we have no money or prospects left to make it worthwhile. The two positions are not hypocritical. When I started this thread and commented on other threads, I always listed Pablo as a possibility at 3B for 2017. I had less faith in Shaw than most here even right after his small sample size 2015 production. A few posters went off on Pablo. Even just a month or so ago, some poster was totally bashing him. I don't hear that anymore. I hear people being positive about him, hence my statement that people's opinions have changed. It seemed pretty obvious. I wasn't trying to claim I was some soothsayer, because I was in the crowd that felt we shouldn't count on Pablo. That's why I suggested trading for Frazier, signing Turner and even pining over the old plan of suggesting moving Bogey to 3B and having Iggy at SS. You keep reading things into my statements. I'm not patting myself on the back, because I git it wrong about Pablo. My opinion has changed as have countless other Sox fans. Why you deny or pretend I am now implying I supported Pablo all along it is beyond me.

True enough. It might take extreme vigilance on his part to not fall back into bad habits. Sometimes it happens so slowly, you barely notice it's happening.

Yes, that's why I said "If"... being out of shape...kept his numbers down. I know he did very well at times with SF when he was heaviest. That might be what led him to believe his weight did not matter in terms of projected production.

You are denying the fact that many posters were saying we should not count on anything from Pablo in 2017? Wow! Some wanted us to just DFA him and eat the money. Some suggested we do what we did with Craig and Castillo- not realizing you can't do that to a player with 5+ years of ML service. I realize many things have changed since then that led to people's opinions to change, but the fact is people's opinions have changed on Pablo. Why deny it? btw, I'm not "patting myself on the back", because I was one of the posters who said, "I'm counting on zero fro Pablo next year", but I also was not "writing him off" as some were. I was wrong, like many of us. No back-patting. Just an me admitting that opinions (mine included) change with a changing fact base to work with.

I'm totally with you on this, and when I did include Pablo in my suggested outlook for 2017, I said things like, "Anybody with just a shred of self pride has to realize what people are saying and feeling about what happened over the previous 2 years." I couldn't believe anyone would want his lasting impression of his life's work to be that "he ate himself out of baseball", "took the big money and got lazy" or "just didn't care" about himself or his teammates. He had to have felt great after his playoff heroics with SF. The fans loved him. I think he convinced himself, he can do great and still be overweight, but somewhere along the way the scales flipped (pun intended). Most of us thought his terrible 2015 season should have been enough to motivate him like he has been these past few months. What took him so long? Last year's report that he was "getting in shape" led to an even greater disappointment when he came to camp apparently as fat or fatter than spring 2015. The fans and media justifiably went bonkers. I think he recognized that, and that was the "reaching the lowest point" of his problem and the start of his "mental rehab". I'm going to be rooting extra hard for Pablo. It's not always so easy to keep focused and dedicated. I'm hopeful he has turned the corner and will stay on track going forward. Relapses are always a possibility, so he needs to keep himself in check.

I agree. I've battled with weight issues since my early 20's. I have found that when I have been out of shape for a long time but then work hard to finally get back into shape, I seem more susceptible to tweaking a hammy or my back doing something very ordinary. Usually it's a muscle or some area that did not get a lot of attention during the workouts. (Note" I've had back issues both when in shape and not in shape.)

What worries me most about Pablo now is how he hits vs LHPs. It used to be his fielding, but I'm hoping being in better shape will improve that. I'm also a little worried about injury. In my opinion (no studies to back me up), I feel athletes who train very hard (especially for the first time) are more susceptible to injury.

Go back and read people's opinions last fall. When I just listed Pablo as a possible competitor at 3B for the 2017 season, hardly anyone agreed and many laughed or berated the idea. Some opinions have changed. Things have changed since last fall. We have no Travis Shaw. We've seen the photos of a much thinner Pablo. Approaching spring lends itself to optimism. Fan and media opinions have changed. I see no doubt in that fact. Maybe not everyone, but many. I'm sure even the strongest Pablo supporter (not me) has doubts.

If being "out of shape" all his career was what kept his numbers lower than his potential, then you are right. The logic makes sense. He could have his best season ever. He's certainly one of the top "players to watch" to start the season.

I think there's a good chance Pablo has a very good season (over .825 or so). There's also a chance he comes in around his 2014 season: .740 and average fielding. I just hope he stays healthy and doesn't end up sub .725.

I think Smyly has some good potential. He's already shown he can pitch well.

The M's were busy today. I think they've gotten better, but there are some questions.

Good article, but I'd take my chances with Rutledge, Holt and Hernandez and save the $5M. I disagree on this point, "...the Red Sox did lose out on a piece that would have perfectly filled perhaps the only true “opening” left on the roster, and for an awfully low price." I think pitching depth is a bigger "opening" than back-up 3B.

Athletics To Sign Trevor Plouffe By Steve Adams | January 11, 2017 at 7:21am CDT TODAY: Plouffe is expected to receive around $5MM of guaranteed money in the deal, per Jon Heyman of Fan Rag (via Twitter). There are also incentives, though details remain unknown.

In 2014, Pablo posted a .739 OPS. That seems like a fair expectation for 2017.

LOL. It's a decent floor, and if he fields near average, those numbers would help us a lot, but clearly it's not monstrous.

In hindsight, we should have traded Youk before his rapid decline. I remember arguing to keep Beltre and have Youk play 1B. I did not think VMart was worth big money to play 1B and (in theory) replace Papi at DH at some point. Papi made it all the way through VMart's contract though. One big silver lining: we drafted JBJ and Swihart with Beltre's comp picks, so that mitigates the bad choice to some extent.

He's had an OPS over .900 twice in his career, and ended up with an .811 OPS in 7 seasons with the Giants. That's good. That actually very good. What many may not realize is that he also had a plus UZR/150 in those 7 years with SF! (+2.2), but to be fair, he's listed as being -2 in DRS. He was +3.5 in 2014 with a +4 in DRS that year before signing with BOS. Anyways, he was at least close to average on defense, before putting up one of the worst fielding shows (2015) at 3B in my lifetime. Then, there's the playoff heroics...

Or "out".

What a turn around for Panda on fan opinions and expectations from last spring to now. I remember I caught a lot of flack last fall for just mentioning Pablo being "in the mix" at 3B or DH for 2017. Now, he's basically all we've got, and posters are beginning to believe he can be productive again. A "monster year" might be pushing it, but my expectations are certainly growing every time I see a new pic of him.

Very true. Damon's noodle arm meant he'd have had to play LF or DH with the Sox. Correct me, if I am wrong, but didn't we have those two positions covered pretty well those years? I can't remember the names of those two scrubs we had playing LF and DH. Can anyone think of who they were?

Surprised you forgot about Ellsbury. Can't say as I blame ya!

If it includes trades, Nomar jumps out. FAs who bolted include, OCab, D Lowe, Mueller, Gonzo (ss), VMart, Beltre, Papelbon and of course Ellsbury.

In 2013, we used 11 starters (9 with 3 or more starts) and ended up having to trade for Peavy. In 2007, we had 5 starters with over 23 starts, but still used 9 starters, including Kason Gabbard for 7. In 2004, we had 4 starters with 29 or more GS'd. Fossum 14, Kim 5, Mendoza 5, Chen 2 and Rupe 1. Suppan was acquired and gave us 10 as our 9th or 10th starter.