moonslav59

If we are talking the 2017 Betts, I agree. The 2016 Betts only had 16 players hit for a better OPS and 25 with more HRs. He also "changes the game" with excellent defense and very good base running. He was 3rd in WAR last year. He certainly made a big difference in 2016. Even with the "off year" in 2017, here are the WAR rankings for 2016-2017 combined: 16.1 Trout 15.1 Bryant 14.3 Altuve 13.3 Betts 13.1 Seager 12.6 Donaldson 12.1 Lindor 11.7 Votto 11.6 Rendon 11.3 Ramirez 11.0 Turner 11.0 Arenado 26th Stanton 8.7 30th Bogaerts 8.0 36th Cozart 7.5 39th Pedroia 7.3 40th JBJ 7.3 43rd Santana 6.7 50th Upton 6.3 57th Abreu 5.9 60th JD Martinez 5.5 67th E Nunez 4.9 104th McCutchen 4.3 116th Hosmer 4.0 122nd Morrison 3.8

Certainly replacing JF is not our most pressing need.

JBJ has been over .830 for two years before this. I doubt AM gets over 830 next year. I would not trade 3 cheap years of junior for 1 year of AM.

Better than the 2017 JBJ, but AM is on the down slope while JBJ should be on the up slope

Name someone.

I agree on lovullo. I do not think it will be hard to find some better than JF, but our pitching may suffer

So, trade JBJ for a better CF'er? 1) Who? 2) Who will trade us a better CF'er for JBJ? 2A) Who could we tradw with JBJ to get a better CF? And, who is that CF'er?

That was his best trade.

Yes, you were, and it's a valid opinion to not want hypothesize or discuss anything beyond the possible. Personally, I'm fine with discussing impossible or highly improbable happenings or thinking it's okay for others to do so.

My point was about Lackey and the 2017 team. He should not be a part of the 2017 discussion. 1) His contract ran out before 2017. 2) He was a non factor this year.

Not even to a small extent on 1,3 & 4?

My opinion is that there are 4: 1) We have spent like maniacs and come up short too many times. 2) Lack of fundamentals and excessive mental blunders. 3) An apparent (to me) ho-hum attitude. 4) A significant massive decline by our top 8 returning everyday players and our 2016 Cy Young winner all at once. #4 has been used to fire many a manager in the past.

While agree there is a zero percent chance DD gets fired, I do think it's fine for people who think he should be fired to express their opinions. I've never been a DD fan, and I firmly disagree with 2 of his moves while being ambivalent over the Price signing. I can understand those who disagreed with his philosophy to get even more upset over the fact that the rationalization of his philosophy was that we'd be HIGHLY competitive for 3-5 years. The quick exit last year and the two blow-out losses this year has driven some of those to this point. I am not for firing DD this winter. I think every GM deserves 5 years. If the GM is spending large and trading many prospects, I can see giving just a 3-4 year window. A plan like Ben's, I feel, deserved a 5 year window.

Agreed. He won't. I think the debate is about the "should" or "should not."

Maybe next year, your will say you under rated most of our players. Most of our players did better in both 2015 and 2016, so I'm not sure thinking their 2017 performance reflects their true or real value going forward.

I think he's a great pitching coach. Too bad he will never accept that demotion on this team. I have not had any major issues with in game choices- same as you. My main issues are seeing rampant lack of fundamentals and what I called a lack of "fire and desire". Both seemed to improve as the season ended, and I hate to think 2 or 3 games changes much, but as i said, I wanted JF gone before this year even started.

Since all 8 of our top 8 returning players by 2016 PAs declined this year- most by over 85 points, it's hard to choose which one or two to trade. Trading would also cause another hole to fill via another trade or signing. Our signings have not worked out too well, so it's hard to feel very confident in that method of fixing our higher need areas. There's a significant chance we trade the wrong guy or two, if that's the road we choose. Again, the major declines... The Young... JBJ .832> .835> .726 (-109) Beni .835> .776 (-59) Bogey .776> .802> .746 (-56) The middle aged... Leon .439> .845> .644 (-201) Holt .727> .705> .548 (-157) Young .773 (NYY)> .850> .709 (-141) HRam .717> .866> .750 (-116) Pedey .797> .825> .760 (-65) I'm sorry, but I just can't believe that all these guys are worse than I thought they were. All but HRam and Leon did worse in 2017 that 2015, too! Vazquez was our number 11 guy in PAs last year. We lost Papi and Shaw, so he is number 9 in returning players by PAs: Vaz n/a> .585> .735 (+150) So, who do you trade? We can't trade HRam. Pedey will probably not be dealt with his injury history and multiple years under contract. Young and Moreland are FAs. Bogey? Play Marco/Lin at SS? JBJ? Play Beni in CF and sign a LF'er? Leon? Won't get much back. I'm not saying I wouldn't trade any of our under performers, but selling low is not usually a winning strategy, and I don't see any prospects ready to step in for the player(s) we trade.

We were a plus on overall base running this year, according to the numbers. I liked the "aggressive" philosophy, but I did feel like we had more than our fair share of bonehead mistakes. I'm sure making bonehead mistakes was not part of JF's philosophy, and I have been careful to separate slightly over aggressive decisions from blunders, but I do feel JF could have had a better influence on lessening the lack of focus mistakes. Note: Fangraphs ranks us 10th on base running at +5.1.

In some ways yes, but I don't see how the Lackey decision negatively affected this year. Yes, I'd rather have Lester & Encarnacion than Porcello, Pablo, Moreland & HRam. The poster also does not credit Ben for supplying the stacked farm that allowed DD to acquire Sale, Pom and Kimbrel.

I think yes. I'm not sure about what our current "talent" value is. I realize I may have had expectations that were beyond these players' abilities. This would mean 2015 and 2016 were in some ways flukes or outliers for several players. Possible? Sure. probable? I think not. I'm not blaming JF for just about everyone's decline at once. I'm not sure how much of an influence or impact any better manager could demonstrate. I'm not for change for change sake, but I do feel a change at the top is called for. I felt that before this year even started.

A manager can make a difference in these areas. It doesn't have to be by benching (or disciplining) a player who makes a bonehead play or two. No, he's not likely to make a difference in Price's spat with the media- maybe, but not likely. Seems like HRam got worse with running blunders, so who knows there. Beni's blunders could be chalked up to inexperience, but lack of focus could be something a manager could work with the player on. Notice I said "might" on everything, so I realize, this is all conjecture.

Interesting article... http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/drellich-red-sox-luxury-tax-approach-looks-bad-paltry-offense Some flaws... He speaks of our base running as being "frightening" and that it didn't matter since we sucked at getting on base. Wrong and wrong. We finished 11th in OBP at .329, which was just .010 from being tied for second. Our base running, despite all the bonehead plays, which is maybe what he meant as "frightening", we top tier in MLB.

A new manager might work to mitigate Sale's tendency to fade at the end of the year by limiting his pitches through the year. A new manager can help to lessen the massive amounts of bonehead plays made by our players. A new manager can change the clubhouse atmosphere (not that we know it is currently a problem). A new manager would likely stop putting sub .600 hitters up first or second in the line-up.

Cashman: “We Are Getting Under The Threshold Next Year” By Mark Polishuk | October 6, 2017 at 12:43pm CDT The Yankees have long sought to reset their luxury tax penalty clock, and with payroll now finally nearing the tax’s cutoff point, GM Brian Cashman tells Joel Sherman of the New York Post are committed to getting under the $197MM threshold this winter. “We haven’t had [offseason] meetings like this, but the exclamation point is we are getting under the threshold next year,” Cashman said. “[Greg] Bird is our first baseman moving forward because obviously we believe in him and also because of the cost control. The most important factor is if Bird is worthy enough to be our first baseman and our answer is yes.”

Would starting a new thread titled "A Realistic View at 2018" now, give the appearance I'm giving up on 2017? Cause I'm not.