moonslav59

Nice. The Sox have always been way ahead of my other sport teams' following. I used to score the games by radio or try to watch them on my TV set on UHF Channel 38 all the way from Portland, Me. I was a kid in Milwaukee during the Packer and Bucks championships, and they still have a place in my heart but no where near the Sox. I played fantasy football for 3 years and won twice. They booted me out of the league by changing it to postal workers only. I think I lost my extreme love of the Packers while rooting for Emmit Smith and Gud Frerotte to score, score, score... The Pack and Bucks sucked for many years, but they've had their moments in the sun or partial shade. I admit I've channeled much of my OCD tendencies to one thing: The Boston Redsox!

Well said, and what GM, in their right mind, would not try to win again in 2019 without going even more nutty with the spending?

Yes, he overpaid for Moreland and Pearce. I doubt anyone would have paid Eovaldi that much for 4 years. I do not think he overpaid for Price. He was the best, and the best cost mega bucks. I loved the Sale signing, and we'll see if it becomes our next albatross or not. JD was not overpaid. Bogey was not overpaid. Overall, DD seems to have come out about even on the overpay/underpay scale,to me.

I agree. We should have spent on the pen, instead of Pearce, but Moreland did get hurt and nobody expected Chavis to be better than both. Yes, DD made mistakes. I'm not saying he didn't. It was part of my point. The budget was limited, and we had had many needs: 4th starter, 5th starter, Closer, Set-up man, 1B, 2B and some felt catcher and another RP'er. I have no issue with anyone saying Eovaldi & Pearce were mistakes, and many said so at the time, but it's not like DD did not try to fill the holes he felt were needed most. I'm not giving DD a pass- far from it. He gets credit for getting us the 4th ring, but he also gets the blame for forcing us to max out the budget while emptying the farm to do so. I was okay with the plan. I had hoped we kept more of the farm, but his plan worked. Now the second part of the plan is fast arriving, and it's time to face the consequences. DD gets credit for the win and the blame for where we are now.

We had very limited funds this past winter and very little hope from our farm. This was a direct result of always trying to get better every year. In theory, the philosophy sounds great, but we sold our future for today, and the future is now here. Yes, signing Pearce instead of a pen arm was a mistake, but we thought we needed help for the fragile Moreland. Was DD wrong about that? Yes, Eovaldi got hurt. That sucked. Yes, DD made spending mistakes, but to expect no mistakes in FA signings is unrealistic.

It must have been easy not following the sucky Broncos after their 2 wins. I'm not sure I agree with your generalizations, since there are many cerebral Sox fans, many of whom have gone on to "heady" jobs in baseball.

I totally agree, and we all knew we were going for broke and giving up a bit of the future to do it. Yes, any team that outspends everyone else (some competitors by 3 X) should be more competitive than this, but we emptied the farm for the ring #4, and it may be time to pay for it with a down year or 2 (hopefully not more). Being a Sox fan from the early 70's to 2004 has made me more accepting of 1-3 year lulls, despite mega spending.

I wonder what the demos were 20, 30 and 40 years ago.

This is "the cliff" many of us spoke of. 9 Keepers 6-8 prospetcs called up 8-10 low cost free agents signed this winter, just to field a team and stay under the tax line. This might be the opening day roster (with more than 7-9 keepers) with NO free agents signed: SP: Price, Sale, ERod, Eovaldi, Johnson/Velazquez RP: Workman (last arb year), Barnes, Hembree, Taylor, DHern, Brasier, Brewer/Walden/Lakins/Shawaryn Poyner/ Reyes/ Weber/ Kelley C: Vaz & Leon (at min salary) or Centeno 1B: Dalbec/Travis/Ockimey/Curletta (Chavis from 2B) 2B: Chavis & Marco (Maybe re-sign Holt) 3B: Devers SS: Bogey & Lin/Chatham LF: Beni CF: Castillo/GHernandez/Duran RF: Betts (if not traded) DH: Pedey/Dalbec/Ockimey No: JD Porcello JBJ Moreland Pearce Nunez Wright I think that's enough to get under the luxury tax line. (I'll do the math later.) Maybe Betts or Beni will be gone and replaced by 1-2 cheap free agents on 1 year deals.

Well said. It's hard to stay highly competitive every year, even when outspending everyone.

The offense is the least to blame, for sure.

Agreed, but the offense has struggled when needed

Yes, especially when you never reach the ultimate goal between rebuilds

Cleveland or Oakland might be more likely.

The farm was much worse by the time Theo left. Ben left DD with a great farm.

I've not given up. In fact, I think we should make 1-2 trades right now to get better (2 solid RP'ers). However, we can't just decide on July 30th to sell. We need to put out feelers now, just in case. Plan to win this year, but also plan to sell off, if we look hapless over the next 2 weeks.

Assuming we become sellers, I'd trade him for the best offer and then try to re-sign him next winter.

Does this mean we're done bashing Ben?

We also have to remember that although we have used the pen-starter strategy less than some teams, and our innings are higher than most, we've had an 8 man pen all year long. That should have more than made up for the 14 IP extra we have. I can't remember the last time the Sox have gone with 13 pitchers all year long. The pen was thin to begin with and short on top quality arms. The hope was they'd get us to the trade deadline, and some help would arrive. The hope was our starters would dominate and pitch longer than they have to help take some of the stress and innings away from the pen. The hope was the hitting would help make up for some of the pen's shortcomings. The pen has sucked, especially the last 4-6 weeks. The starters have sucked and not given the innings hoped for. (We've had some long extra inning games, too.) The hitters have not come through, when they have been needed most. We've scored a lot of runs, but not enough in close games. Even our defense has looked worse than expected, despite Devers improving a lot at 3B. Our GM, manager and coaches all are partially to blame, as well. To me, it's one giant let-down. Only Bogey, Devers, Price, ERod, Vaz, Workman, Chavis and a tiny sample size from Marco have been doing better than expected. You don't win with just 5-6 guys doing well.

Trade him to a big NL park team, and he's a good gamble for a contender. Plus, we can pay most of his remaining salary to increase the return prospect or two.

I agree, and I'd like to tell him we want him back before and during trading him this summer. He'd be a nice piece to a contender in need of bench strengthening.

You start a rebuild be deciding to suck for a year or 1.3 years (or more for "other teams"). We sell players under team control for 1.3 years or less and maybe others that look like they may not be helpful in 2021 and beyond. I realize we will not get anywhere near the haul you guys got in your sell-off, but it's a start. The next big step is to reset the tax this winter. We get a half way decent draft pick this year, due to finishing in the middle this year and maybe below middle next year. When the 2021 season comes, we'll be able to spend large to fill the many holes. We'll have a few prospects nearing or at ML readiness. It may take longer or much longer than 1.3 years, but we can possibly get back to respectability by 2021 by being a top spender, again- a luxury many rebuilding teams don't have or use. We could have a core of these players for 2021: Bogey Devers ERod Vaz Barnes Maybe JD, Betts and/or Workman (Holt?) Probably Price & Sale Chavis, Taylor & Marco Prospects obtained in trades plus maybe some from Dalbec, Chatham, Duran, DHern, Houk, Feltman, Houk, Ward, Shugart, Lakins, Scherff or Ockimey I realize, we'll need a lot of FAs to fill all the holes, but our budget will be lower and the end of Pedey's deal will be in sight by 2021 and the reset budget tax.

I'm not down on Brock. My point was that IF we become sellers, he should be traded. He's a FA after this season. BTW, he's the only guy I mentioned, "we can re-sign him" out of all the names I said we should offer in trade. Sounds like I value him higher than all the others on my trade list.

Of course, you sell the pieces you can get the most for, first, but you are underselling Holt. Yes, he's been fragile, but he's doing very well and can play many positions. Moreland is worth nothing right now. I am assuming he shows signs of life by the deadline- if not, then nada.

I never said we'd get a great haul for these guys, just get the best we can. If we pay most of Porcello's contract,someone will take a flyer on him. Moreland will not get much back, even if he comes back very soon and rakes.