moonslav59

I get your point, and I don't disagree, but I was just pointing out that your OBP argument could be challenged by most recent data. Mookie has the best SLG in recent days/weeks as well, so that is the point, I think you win with.

That's why they got Tito the great Erik Bedard who gave them 8 "mid rotation" starts like Dempster and PomPom.

Young was hurt. Brock and Bryce were doing HanRam imitations out there before the call-up.

He was more capable that Brentz & Holt. He was more capable than Bogey at 3B back in 2014. He was more capable than Swihart in LF earlier this year. The kid is a plsu defender in CF right now. He can handle LF in a pretty quick turnover time, but again, I wish they had moved him to LF earlier at AA.

They ran out of pitchers... No, they were there. They were just in the clubhouse having some beers. They had Beckett, Lackey, Lester, Buch and Wake. They had Papelbon, A Miller, Bard & Aceves when they were still good and more.

He had outside issues going on, so in his case his mastery "going away" taken within the context of his personal life and the clowns in the clubhouse, I still feel like he "lost it" at the end. I didn't mean in a permanent sense, but even good managers sometimes lose their players for stretches.

I could be wrong, but I thought you were one of the posters who said you don't promote a player and change his position within the same year. It was NOT you who called it a "silly idea" to even think about giving him reps at 3B this year, but you seemed to think following "protocol" was called for with Moncada. The issue really was about how quickly anyone thought Moncada could master AA and become near "ML ready". With a freak like Moncada, I felt we needed to keep the door open to the possibility he might surprise us. I did not call for him to be moved to 3B right away, but I caught flack for even suggesting he be given reps at 3B in practice "soon". Not the next day. Maybe not even the next week, but soon, based on the idea that with every game he played, he looked more and more "ready".

I don't disagree, but the timing of the call for him to bat 3rd came right when he was showing his normal late season surge, and his more recent OBP was among the best on the team. I would certainly not start Mookie at leadoff next April.

I was wrong in my assessment of Tito's overall record. I guess I just let his last year stick in my craw.

I remember quite a few 1.2 IP 8H 8ER 3BB games for some of our starters.

I disagree. I think any plus defensive CF'er can be (and usually is) a capable corner OF'er in a very short period of time. Beni was certainly equal or better than the Brentz-Holt "Bad News Bears" in LF at the time of his call-up, even if he was not fully at top readiness. Besides, I called for him getting more time in LF earlier. That's been my mantra- "sooner rather than later".

I agree, I did under-rate Tito, but he did "lose the team" near the end. Maybe no manager could have kept those clowns in check. I do think we have had some bad managers. We've had some okay managers. We've had fewer good ones that I'd have wished for, and I still think that since I started following the Sox in 1970, we've had more bad/decent/okay than good, very good/great.

+ Yes, that makes perfect sense to most players. The timetable guideline was hastened when Moncada started showing incredible adjustment ability at his new level. The kid now has a higher AA OPS than single A after just the 36 game mark! You have to make adjustments all the time in baseball, even to those long and tried traditions. Imagine if the Sox of old had made Fred Lynn wait until 1976!

No I think the argument is being changed here in hindsight. What teams do is develop a guy at his natural position and move him if there is a hole to fill and the guy is ready or close to ready. What we were arguing against then was the notion that because it looked like Moncada was blocked and his position on the team would be another position that he should be moved in advanced. I disagree. I felt Moncada was super close to being ready with his hitting and emotional place. Some here felt that, no matter what, you don't promote a guy to a new level AND change his position within a year. It goes against "traditional protocol", they said. If I thought Moncada was a fulkl year away, I would not have argued for giving him reps at 3B. It's still 100% true that you don't move guys to a position based off of what the team needs might be in a year or two. That's not how development works and it never will be. Nothing which has transpired has changed that argument. They likely view Moncada as close to ready and see 3B as a viable option, and I'm sure there are other factors involved in that decision besides Pedey playing 2nd such as Shaws struggles recently. Yes, Moncada is very close to ready. Some of us felt that and believed that a month or longer ago. Now, once the move has been made, the "follow the protocol" posters are calling him a "freak" and saying things like "there's no way anyone could have known he was a freak 1-3 months ago." The Sox broke protocol with the "freak" Beni by making him our first player to be in the bigs a year after he was drafted since Fred Lynn. They also changed him from CF to LF shortly before the promotion. I'd have preferred he had been given more time in LF before the call-up, but the adjustment from CF to LF is much different than from 2B to 3B. My argument is that when you clearly have someone special or "freakish", it's worse to wait too long to give him etime to learn his position before thrusting him into MLB with little practice at his new position than to be overly cautious when it's clear he's near "ready". Bogey was given 10 days to learn 3B before joining the big team in the middle of a pennant race. JBJ was moved to LF quickly, so a guy with some LF experience already and a worse CF'er defensively (Ellsbury) could stay in his comfort zone. Swihart was moved to LF quickly and promptly got hurt. Betts was moved pretty quickly from 2B to OF then the bigs. Some moves have "worked" other are questionable. My position has always been, when a guy looks near ready, freak or not, move the guy to his likely position "sooner rather than later". Moncada is a phenom, that still validates our argument even if it is a month or two later. It's not like teams sit down and have a schedule of the exact date a guy is ready or will switch positions. It's not as if the team has it marked May 25th 2018 Devers will move to 1B. It was a silly argument then, and it still is now.....and no one here ever doubted the ideal that he would/could eventually move off of position the argument was when it should happen and at that point in time Moncada was in Single A.....he was in A ball!!!!!!!!! I thought the debate started when he was in AA for a few weeks.

Taz is a FA, so I don't give him or Uehara any higher chance of being here next year than other FA RP'ers. I think we start with this: Closer: Kimbrel RP2/back-up closer: _________ RP3: C Smith RP4: ________ RP5: Barnes Lefty RP6/7: Ross/Abad/Elias/ converted SP'er? Owens/Johsnon Righty RP6/7: Kelly/Hembree/Workman/NRamirez/Martin We may see Ziegler and Taz back, but there are other FA RP'ers out there and trade candidates as well. I think we could get by with one really good RP'er acquisition, since Smith should be back, but if we just get one, we better boost the rotation. FA List: John Axford, Joaquin Benoit, Jonathan Broxton, Buddy Carlyle, Brett Cecil, Santiago Casilla Aroldis Chapman, Jesse Chavez, Tim Collins, Aaron Crow Wade Davis *, Michael Dunn, Dana Eveland, Neftali Feliz, Jason Grilli *, Luke Hochevar Greg Holland, J.P. Howell Kenley Jansen, Casey Janssen, Kevin Jepsen, Brandon League Boone Logan, Javier Lopez, Brian Matusz Mark Melancon, Joe Nathan, Josh Outman, Yusmeiro Petit, Cesar Ramos Francisco Rodriguez *, Sergio Romo, Marc Rzepczynski, Fernando Salas, Sergio Santos Joe Smith, Craig Stammen Drew Storen, Josh Tomlin, Jordan Walden * Brad Ziegler

Beni was also ready defensively at the position of need (LF).

I'm not against trading HanRam. I wanted to last winter, and I even said that if he hits over .900 in 2016, I'd trade him in a heartbeat, before his stock fell again. The issue is what can we get for him. If we can get $12M in salary relief, that may be all well and good, but the fanatsy of getting Encarnacion on at 3 or maybe even a 4 year deal is just that- fantasy. This is his big payday. The guy has been over .900 more years in a row than Papi, but he may not age like Papi. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have him on our team, but with paying HanRam's portion, probably writing off Pablo, Castillo and Craig for the remainder of their deals and Encarnacion at $25M+ x 5 or 6 years or maybe even 7 years, would kill out budget for many years. I'm not for giving soon to be 37 year old, Ziegler a 3 year deal either. I'm not even sure I want him for 1 or 2 years at what he'll get. Experience is a plus in the pen, but there are other RP'ers out there.

You think this looks close to "great"? Wow! I said our managers have not been "all that great".

I think Moncada comes up to PR and PH, and maybe gets a little time at DH or 2B, but I doubt he plays 3B until next year. Yes, the sample sizes vs LHPs are tiny.

I know this is the Beni thread, but some of the same factors are involved in the Moncada decision. This from soxprospects.com --The most prominent news of the week on the farm came in Portland, when Yoan Moncada (pictured, right) made his debut at third base. Many have speculated that Moncada could follow Andrew Benintendi to the majors before 2016 ends, and third base is where it would happen. --For what it's worth, Travis Shaw has struggled lately at the plate, and Aaron Hill has just a .589 OPS with Boston so far. --Another possibility is that Moncada could go to the Arizona Fall League to get more experience playing third, according to Rob Bradford of WEEI.com. From my own research: Moncada's OPS vs... Yr/level RHP/LHP 16 AA .992/.660 16 A+ .971/.797 15 A .753/.951 Is there reason for concern here? Is the concern big enough to prevent his promotion?

I do not think we could trade HanRam for a 2 bats and 5 baseballs, unless we pay part of his salary. How much of his $22M x 2 years left is the question. That doesn't mean he has no value to us or an opponent through trade. I see his value vs RHPs on a serious decline, and since there are much more righty SP'ers than lefties, I don't see his overall value as being that high. His fielding at 1B is subpar. Shaw is one of baseballs best fielding 1Bman from 2015-2016, and hits RHPs better than HanRam. So now I see HanRam as a DH, and a DH who is weak vs RHPs is not a plus value to me. I guess he could play 1B vs LHPs, if Shaw keeps struggling vs LHPs. HanRam would pout, if we platooned him by sitting him half or more of the time, so before we'd even mention a platoon, we might try to trade him by paying close to half his salary.. If we don't sign anybody and Moncada does not start on the 25 man roster, then HanRam may be a better option vs RHPs than anybody else (Holt, Pablo, Hernandez, Young). We won't cut HanRam like we might cut Pablo. I'm not writing HanRam off next year, even vs RHPs. The real squeeze happens if any of these three things happen: 1) We sign a DH or corner IF'er who is better than HanRam overall or significantly better vs RHPs. 2) Moncada makes the 25 man roster and starts at 3B (or even if just at 3B vs RHPs). 3) Pablo gets in shape and makes the 25 man roster. (He has been better than HanRam vs RHPs recently, even as a jiggling blob!) Again, these are the givens: Bogey at SS. Betts in RF. JBJ is CF. Pedey at 2B (maybe Moncada can give him some rest at 2B here and there-- Pedey DH some?) Leon/Vaz/Swihart at catcher Young plays vs LHPs at DH or maybe LF some asall OF'ers are rested Shaw plays vs RHPs HanRam plays vs LHPs Highly probable: Beni in LF full time Probable: Moncada makes the 25 man roster at some point before May 31st (3B?) Holt stays the super sub Possible: Sandoval makes the 25 man roster early in 2017. Swihart makes the 25 man roster as catcher2, LF'er 3 or corner IF'er/DH? Unknown: Hernandez, Rutledge, Travis With Papi gone, I see 3B, 1B and DH as the positions in question with a lot of options. I start with Young at DH vs LHPs and HanRam at 1B vs LHPs. Now, it gets tricky: If I had to guess right now, based on what we know, I think we see this: .....v RHP/ v LHP DH Ram**/ Young 1B Shaw/Ram 3B Monc/ Shaw-Monc **DH vs RHPs could be Pablo, if HanRam continues to struggle vs RHPs and Pablo looks sharp in spring. Note: Moncada has a 200-300 point split disparity in the minors this year. He's much better vs RHPs, so maybe Shaw plays 3B vs some or most leftie.) There's a lot that can happen between then and now.

Expanding the sample size splits to 2014-2016: vs RHPs: .980 Ortiz .858 Betts .778 Pedey .776 Shaw .759 Leon .783 Sandoval (multiple teams) .747 Ramirez (Multiple teams) .734 Bradley .734 Young .727 Swihart .724 Bogey .715 Ramirez .705 Holt .650 Rutledge .633 Castillo .590 Vazquez .566 Hannigan vs LHPs 1.042 Young .882 Ramirez .847 Betts .831 Bogey .806 Leon .804 Ortiz .793 Shaw .783 Castillo .758 Pedroia .738 Holt .736 JBJ .673 Swihart .647 Hanigan .643 Vazquez .521 Sandoval (worst in MLB) The longer sample size may not correctly reflect the abilities of younger players as they have grown and adjusted. Sometimes they are more accurate for mid to older ranged players than the shorter recent sample sizes. No matter what size recent sample size you use, Young looks awesome vs LHPs and HanRam looks pretty bad vs RHPs.

Yanks are playing very well. Thanks for beating Toronto, but don't get too out of hand!

Can we talk about something else? I'm just glad it wasn't Papi going on the DL with a bum shoulder. This horse has been beaten to death several times over. Here's some subjects: twalk among you selves.... Good to see PomPom almost go a full 8. Looks like JBJ benefited from the day off a couple days back. Today was HanRam's turn for a day off. Tito really blew that game, huh? .

So, if he'd barely scored on a base hit, you'd be hear complaining about it still?