moonslav59

You fail to mention or give credit for all the games the pen started out behind and kept the team in the game for a win or to take the starter off the hook for the loss. Starter lets up 5 runs in 5 IP. Team comes back and takes the lead. Pen let's up 2 runs in 4 IP and gets a BS and all the blame for the loss. Where's the justice? Now, that didn't happen in every game, and certainly the pen blew way too many games, but do you really blame the pen fully, when they often let up way less runs per IP in games with the Blown saves? Earlier this season, I did a breakdown of every game, and who pitched better or worse in our wins and losses. It looked very clear that the pen was more responsible for more wins than the starters, and the starters were more responsible for more losses than the pen. Look for yourself. Yes, the pen sucked, but the starters sucked more and are more responsible for the turn around than the pen. Easily.

...yes, when they move him back to LF after the failure in center.

The point was about how much value a guy who has been DFA's twice this year has. Last year, you wanted JBJ. How about JBJ for Broxton and a prospect?

If MN losses every game, that means CLE wins those 6 games. They'd have to lose almost their other games. Our only hope is MN goes 6-24 and CLE goes 8-22, because we won't even win half our next games.

You won't even pay lip service to the decline of our SP'ing. It makes your claim less convincing when you use words like "only." SP'ing 2018-2019: 2018: 68-38 (56 No decisions) 13 games SP'er left with lead followed by BS/21 games SP'er left while behind but did not get the loss. 22 "Cheap wins" and 5 "Tough losses" 2019: 42-44 (46 No decisions) 14 games SP'er left with lead and BS/19 games SP'er left behind and team came back to tie or take lead 11 "Cheap wins" and 6 "Tough losses" The decline is MASSIVE! Ignoring it is worse. Want more? 2018: SP: 3.77 ERA/ .697 OPS Against RP: 3.72 ERA/ .700 OPS Against 2019: SP: 5.02/ .774 ERA UP 1.25 and OPS UP .077 RP: 4.16/ .722 ERA Up only 0.44 and OPS only up .022. Okay, the save% went from 70% to 51% in 49 games, but the QS% went down from 41% to 36% in every game (132).

I just did. See below your post. The 2018 top 5 guys were better in 2018.

This cracks me up!

At least! Plus, we remember the blown saves more easily than how many times the pen kept us in games we later won after the starter was bombed.

It blows my mind how many times our starter let up 5+ or 3+ in the first inning or two.

...and Andrew Cashner on the other side. We left $3-4M on the table.

Many teams have used the "opener a lot." I get why using the "opener" more often this year might affect the over all numbers to the worse, but pen numbers when trailing and tied do matter. Going by xFIP, the Yanks 2018 vs 2019, pitcher by pitcher: Pitcher 2018>or Chapman 2.58 > 2.85 Chapman (almost the same IP) Robertson 3.09> 4.17 Ottavino (DR with 13 more IP, so far) Betances 1.95> 3.83 Britton (DB with 14 more IP, so far) Green 3.19>4.25 Green (36 more IP in 2018) Holder 4.56 Warren 3.59 The Yankee pen was better last year.

I know sarcasm when I see it -usually - but Devers, Bogey, Vaz, Workman and maybe ERod are, IMO, clearly beyond reproach.

Going by my "eye test," the only rankings I might take issue with (beyond those with tiny sample sizes) would be Vaz over JD and Chavis slightly ahead of JBJ. ERod looks a little low, but this is per inning not a cumulative value list.

Here are the Sox WAR/Gm numbers: .045 Bogey .042 Devers .037 Betts .029 Vaz .025 JD .023 Beni .019 Holt (just 62 games) .013 Marco (just 38 games) .007 Chavis .007 JBJ .006 Moreland (just 66 games) WAR per IP .028 Workman (58 IP) .024 Sale .024 Taylor (38 IP) .022 Price .021 DHern (23 IP) .014 ERod .008 Porcello .007 Lakins (All others are at 0 or below)

It's the "Only difference" part of your argument that doesn't hold water. Our starters got way worse than our pen did from 2018 to 2019. Just because the Yanks starters outpaced us in starter ineptness doesn't make the pen the "only difference." Plus, their pen was way better than ours last year, in fact by more than this year, yet we won last year. That is clear proof it can't possibly be "just the pen." Our whole staff sucked. Both the Yanks and the Sox saw their pens and rotations get worse. The weird thing is the Yankee pen and rotation got worse by more than our pen and rotation, yet the standing more than flipped. There's room for many different theories on why we lost, and to me, the most likely winner is that it was a mix of several things with no one area being the clear culprit and certainly not the "only" or even more than 50% of the reason we suck this year. Our base running got worse. Our fielding got worse, despite big gains at 3B. Our offense stayed about the same while others improved dramatically. Our GM and manager did worse. Our focus and attention declined. Our pen sucked. Our starters sucked. We got snake bit a few times in close games. The umps sucked. The juiced ball helped others more than us. We sucked this year. There's enough blame to go around for just about everyone but maybe a handful of players.

He looked pretty good at 28.

Blame another loss on the pen... Err..... I mean.....

The magic has vanished.

These are the guys those who still think we have a chance must have a certain degree of faith in.

Exactamundo! Even my favorite stat to use, OPS, does not do that. (And I often cite PAs when listing our team's OPS numbers.)

The Yankee pen has been better than ours both years. Of course our crappy pen is a big reason for our standings shifts, but so has the SP'ing. You keep ragging on those that said our pen would be fine, although many felt we'd be adding to it this summer, but you rarely put equal or more blame on the starters, and that's who deserves most of the blame. It goes against your preseason position, so "whatever".

WAR per Game Pen 2018: Sox: 0.034 Yanks: 0.057 2019: Sox: 0.031 (just .003 worse or 9% worse) Yanks: 0.050 (.007 worse or 12% worse)

The Yankee and Sox starters have been way worse than 2018: Sox: 2018>2019 WAR 14.2>8.8 (31 less games played) ERA- 84>104 xFIP- 91>96 WHIP 1.21>1.37 (sick!) K/BB 3.48>3.03 Yanks: 2018>2019 WAR: 16.3>8.1 (31 fewer games) ERA- 94>104 xFIP- 89>96 WHIP 1.26>1.32 K/BB 2.79>2.68 WAR per Game: 2018: Sox: 0.088 Yanks: 0.100 2019 Sox: 0.067 Yanks: 0.062 The Yankee starters got worse by more than our, too.

Context may be needed as offense has exploded this year, but the 2018 Yankee pen still looks way better. Bell is right. (The Yankee pen has actually gotten worse by more than the Sox pen did!) 2018 to 2019 Comps: Sox Pen 2018>2019 (31 more games for 2018) WAR 4.8>4.0 ERA- 83>87 xFIP- 96>93 WHIP 1.29>1.34 K/BB 2.56>2.59 NYY Comp 2018>2019 (31 more games played in 2018) WAR 9.3>6.5 ERA- 78>87 xFIP- 76>87 WHIP 1.21>1.32 K/BB 3.3>2.7

Here's what the A's have left: 7 v KCR (3H/4A) 6 v TEX (3H/3A) 5 v LAA (3H/2A) 4@ HOU 4 @ SEA 3 v DET 1 v SFG The Rays: 7 v TOR (4H/3A) 4 v BOS 3@ HOU 3 v BAL 3 v CLE 3@ TEX 3@ LAA 2 v NYY 2@ LAD This is not an easy schedule, but who else could we pass? CLE: 7 v CWS (4H/3A) 6 v MN (3H/3A) 6 v DET (3H/3A) 3@ TBR 3@ LAA 3 v PHI 3@ WSH to end the season