moonslav59

Even if he was healthy, our farm would still suck.

True. I think he went too far, but he got a ring, so I'm fine with where we're at. I just want to get back quickly.

It shouldn't be, but when you just about totally empty your farm, and 5 guys take up enough budget space to get you half way to the limit, one can understand the bind he's in. The budget was not all his doing, but he has had a big hand in it's current state.

Price to start Sunday. Johnson to the pen. Who gets called up on September 1st (Sunday)?

He also pays more payroll budget and way more luxury tax than anyone else. He' double, triple and more over several teams. Can he spend way more? Sure. But, who am I to tell him to up his spending after what he's already done?

Yes, I've said that before, but I just don't see JBJ as insurance to losing Betts.

JBJ is my favorite player, too. But no matter how much you try, I just don't see paying JBJ $3-5M more than he's worth in hopes that we can extend him, if Betts leaves. I want a solid CF-RF defense no matter which way we go.

If we lose Betts, IMO, it won't matter who else we keep. JBJ won't make a difference as we will be in rebuild mode, unless we've already reset after this year and use Betts' money to get 2-3 decent players, and they all work out.

It's good to see the Yanks heading to the bottom tier.

The Bleacher Report had these updated farm system rankings after the deadline trades: Only winning teams listed: 2. Tampa (2 top 25 and 6 top 100) 3. AZ (5 top 100) 4 ATL (2 top 25 and 5 top 100) 5. MN (2 top 25 and 5 top 100) 8. LAD (2 top 25 and 4 top 100) 14. SFG (1 top 25 and 3 top 50) 15. PHI (1 top 25 and 2 top 100) 16. CLE (3 top 100) 17. Oak (1 top 25 and 3 top 100) 20. NYY (3 top 100) 22. NYM (2 top 100) 23. STL (2 top 50) 25. HOU (2 top 50) 26. WSH (1 top 25 and 2 top 100) 28. Cubs (1 top 100) 29. MIL (1 top 100) 30. BOS (0 top 100 and only 2 "tier 2's- Casas & Mata) Note: the Rays have 3 tier 2's beyond their 6 in the top 100! The D-backs have 3, too. 9 in the top 17 7 in the bottom 11 You can win and have a strong farm. Theo and DD have among the worst 3 farms in MLB.

Thanks for the info. I'm not a Celtics fan, so I knew little about their ownership history before the 70's.

Call it what you want, but even if resetting, we'll still be near or over $200M and a top 6 or 7 spender, so we should never be the worst team, like The Astros were for a while. I'm not sure how having the 10th to 20th draft pick and a little more international pool money will help to improve the farm, but any significant step forward there could help our extended future. If we reset after 2019 and spend up to but below the max line in 2021, we should have a nice team for the fans to watch. "Highly competitive" might be another issue, especially if we guess wrong on our signings and extension.

I've been pushing for trying to make the rebuild last just one year (reset after this year and be back 2021), but it is likely we will need at least one more year. As much as I hate to say it, maybe 2022 is the earliest we can reasonably expect to be back near the top- assuming a reset is in the works. I hope we can keep Betts and be back by 2021 or 2022, but it just may not work out.

First, thank you for your thoughtful response. I have resigned myself to the idea that Mookie isn't coming through that door in 2021. If you were a championship-type player, someone you build a team around, would you want to come back to a team that's obviously in the start of a rebuild, but with a decimated farm? I sure wouldn't. Trust me. After you've been on a winning team losing becomes not an option if you can control it. I'd be wiling to settle for a few million dollars less over the life of the contract to play for a winner. (And I know that "a few million dollars' is still a lot of money but it's not as much when you have 300 of them piled up anyway). So I don't see him coming back. In fact, IMO he'd be stupid if he does come back. Although I see the Sox as entering a "rebuild mode" very soon, I do not think it will be a long drawn out rebuild- like the Astros. Henry has shown he is willing to spend, and I think once we reset, we will be back to near the top in player budget spending the next year. That is a huge draw to any free agent or player looking to see where he may want to spend the next 7-10 years. Also, if we end up losing Betts, I don't think Henry will pocket the $30+M and say, "Oh well, that sucked!" He will spend it elsewhere. So then we have JBJ, who can be signed for a whole lot less to anchor that outfield. I don't expect to see anyone throwing $300M, $200M, or even $100M his way unless it's a lifetime contract - and the Sox would be stupid to offer anyone not named Mookie (or maybe Devers) a lifetime contract. Okay, so what is preventing us from signing JBJ after trading or non tendering him? Or, what is preventing us from signing someone similar to JBJ or maybe even better on defense going forward to the next 2-5 years? Like DD, I like defense! I believe that defense is as important to winning games as is offense and I believe our pitching staff would tell you the same thing. Like DD, I also believe in the old adage (if 'old adages' haven't been outdated in this time of metrics) of being Solid Up The Middle. Our up-the-middle defense is weak enough as it is with Bogaerts and a PTBNL in the infield. [sidebar disclaimer: IMO Bogaerts offensive capability outweighs his defensive shortcomings so I'm not advocating moving him but that doesn't make him any better defensively]. I still don't know why another, much cheaper great defensive CF'er wouldn't make the staff and us happy. Getting back to SUTM now, I've always believed that a winning team should be solid defensively at C, 2b, SS, & CF and accept any offensive shortcomings at those positions to be that way. I've also believed that if a team has to have defensive weaknesses it should be at the corner positions. I don't particularly like having defensive weaknesses anywhere but if a team has an offensive player like XBo in an UTM position they can afford a weakness at a corner position. I totally agree. In a nutshell, if the Sox are going into a rebuild mode I believe they should take the longer view and keep the best players they can afford to keep in the long run and not be so focused on the next year that they let one (or more) of those players get away. I also believe that one in the hand is worth two in the bush. We KNOW we can sign JBJ to another season and then deal with signing him (or not) for 2021 depending on what the 2021 team looks like. I'd rather do that and accept the salary consequences than risk our outfield defense in 2021 & beyond by losing both JBJ for 2020 & Mookie in 2021 in two years. I DO NOT want to see this team turn into Baltimore or Toronto for the sake of a 'rebuild'. Would you be okay, if we signed or traded for a CF'er who was equal or better to JBJ, or maybe very slightly worse but much younger? And BTW, I also haven't given up on the future of the team that takes the field now. Our only weakness is starting pitching and it's entirely possible that we, for some reason, hit The Perfect Storm of bad pitching this year. The thing that concerns me most is the situation with Sale, which, in spite of what I read here, hasn't been resolved yet and won't be until they can do more diagnostic work on his elbow. But even if Sale goes down in 2020 I still keep JBJ and try to sign him for 2021 and beyond. Our pen is a weakness, too. Beyond on the field, our farm and budget are our biggest issues. I love what Henry has done for the Sox, but I think he is going to want to reset after 2020 or 2021. If we choose 2021, Betts is 99.9% gone. If we choose 2020, he may be 50-50, but only if JBJ is gone and replaced by a more than capable CF'er. Phew! Yes, and thanks again for the reply. Let me know, if there are any current CF'er in MLB you'd be okay with instead of JBJ.

JD, yes. Holt, yes, when healthy. Beni did okay, but I expected an uptick as he approaches peak prime. How about our race for OPS leader? .966 Bogey (3 for 4 with 2HRs and a 2B, BB .964 Devers ( 3-5 HR) .963 JD (2-5 HR)

After Bogey's HR, tonight, we currently have 3 guys over .955: .966 JD .959 Devers .955 Bogey I think all three are in the top 10 in MLB, right now. Who-da-thunk we'd have 3 guys over .955 and none were named Mookie?

JD's OPS since 2014: .958 By Year: .912 .879 .908 1.066 1.031 .958 2016-2019: .992 2017-2019: 1.018

Here I was thinking Devers would pass Bogey and win the team's top OPS this year, but JD has snuck into the lead.

JBJ sets a record... Jackie Bradley Jr. hits 478-foot home run WWW.MLB.COM DENVER -- It didn't matter if it was thin air or thick air. Forget about whether it was high altitude or low altitude. Jackie Bradley Jr. hit an absolute moonshot on Tuesday night at Coors Field. And the data proved that Bradley's blast to the third deck in right-center field,

I'd add Dalbec and Ockimey to the mix of players with a chance of making a "reset" roster.

AZ Fall League... Red Sox (Peoria): Bryan Mata, RHP (No. 3); Jarren Duran, OF (No. 4); Tanner Houck, RHP (No. 5); C.J. Chatham, SS (No. 9); Marcus Wilson, OF (No. 17); Yoan Aybar, LHP (No. 29) All six of the announced Red Sox farmhands so far are Top 30 Prospects, including several of their best. Mata and Houck are the two best pitchers in their system, while Duran appeared in the SiriusXM All-Star Futures Game in his first full pro season and has batted .307/.373/.411 with 35 extra-base hits and 44 steals while rushing to Double-A. Complete roster »

If we have no budget constraints, I can see the value in keeping JBJ, but it seems pretty clear- reset or not- we will have spending limitations. Spending $10-11M on JBJ, when we can get a similar defensive CF'er for less than half that costs just doesn't make sense to me. I want to understand your apparent need to have JBJ on the 2020 team. I don't get the Betts protection theory since both are FAs after 2020. If it's about trading Betts this winter or next summer, and you want JBJ for that scenario, trading Betts would mean we are rebuilding in 2020 and wouldn't need JBJ for 2020 and could sign him as a FA afterwards, if we wished. If the reason is because you are afraid we'd trade or non tender JBJ and end up with a significantly inferior defensive CF'er, I'd share that concern, unless it was just a 1 year temporary bridge to 2021 and a rebuild/reset situation. My plan has been to trade JBJ and bring in an equal, very close or better defensive CF'er at a fraction of the cost, but you seem to not like that idea, or don't trust we can find one, or you don't think there are any as good as JBJ that are easily obtainable. I'm not sure what the fear is. If I told you we could get Billy Hamilton for $1.5M before we had to decide on JBJ, would you then be okay with trading or non tendering him this winter? Would your answer change, if you found out we were certain to reset next year? I know there's a lot of questions here, and I'm sincerely interested inn your opinions, because I share a lot of the same philosophies as you do, especially pertaining to defense up the middle. I'm just having trouble understanding why you seem to be clinging to JBJ, so much. I can understand wanting a .730 GG type CF'er over a .630 GG type CF'er, but if we can save $10M and still have great CF defense, I'm open to the idea.

Yes, and although I am not letting the pen off the hook, I think they have been blamed a lot more than they deserve. Blown saves suck, and we've had way more than our share and way more than last year, but our pen also carried us to wins n many games our starters sucked in. Plus, the starters lost more games than the pen "lost" for us. Simply put: Pen responsible for more wins. Starters responsible for more loses. The game by game analysis shows this is clearly the case.

We need a metric that measures the amount and degree of these raves.

I think the Celtics had 3 different owner groups during their glory years, so I guess none qualify?