moonslav59

It was notin, not me, but more IP'd at a very nice WAR rate is a plus.

His first season was not "awful." Disappointing, yes. Not great, yes. "Awful," no. 14-11 4.40 ERA+ 99 (1.419 WHIP is pretty bad.)

I never caalled him a horse and even provided data that showed that while he had more IP than Price in his previous 2 seasons, he had less in his previous 3 seasons. I didn't bring up Morton's name to support my position. I only responded to a post about him and Happ. He also did not get 3 years.

I mentioned his 2018 playoff heroics and stated my view that most recent 2-3 years matter more than career numbers. It's what I've always used, so this is not some tweak to my philosophy to support this position. Price was a horse when we signed him. That's the main reason I was okay with the signing. Almost everyone agreed the latter years were likely to be problematic, and it turned out the middle years ended up being so. This about where Price was at the end of 2019 and what his perceived value was. I'm not calling anyone nuts for thinking he was worth close to $16M a year, but I do take issue with the 3 years part. I firmly believe it was the Sox who demanded LA take him. Maybe the money "evened out" that part of the deal, but my guess is we'd have gotten slightly more had Price not been part of the deal. Maybe, someday, the details will emerge.

Could work. $17M is a lot to spend on a closer, but if it can keep him healthy, fine with me. I might want a 1 and 3 starter or 2 and 3, not a 1 and 5 starter.

I never said outlandish. I also think what you've done over the last 2-4 years means more than what you did 4-10 years ago. Sure, career number matter, but IMO, recent numbers matter more. Durability matters, too. The third year matters at that age. I agreed he might get $15M/1 or $28M/2, but I think $45M/3 is more than probably any team would offer. Yes, it only takes one GM, and there are countless of examples of injury-prone pitchers being signed to crazy deals, but maybe not many at age 34.

If Bloom chooses to go quantity over quality, we may have the ability to keep some prospects in the minors a little longer. Bloom seems to be good at finding lower paid players that perform better than expected. I'm not againts letting Bloom do his thing. With a 40 man roster that has 15-20 players that are "bubble types," I could see us signing 7-10 players that have a good chance of making the 26 man roster, and maybe a half dozen good minor league signings. My philosophy is usually more towards quality over quantity, but with our roster depth so weak, this may be the time to add a lot of players. I'd still like to see us acquire a better-than-decent player or two this winter that would help us beyond 2021, and it's possible we do both. If we decide to go more towards quality, it makes sense to determine what positions are the weakest while looking at what we have already that can possible fill those needs at an adequate or better-than-the-other guys filling in slots are. Here's how I view the slots we have open and who can fill-in or win the slots, next year: Assuming Perez & Eovaldi are penciled into the rotation and maybe one from ERod and Sale fill another.... (Not in order of biggest need) SP4: ______ (Pivetta) SP5: Pivetta/Houk ______ SP6+: Seabold/Mata/Ward ______ RP1: _______ (Barnes) RP2: _______ (DHern) RP5: _______ (Valdez) RP6: _______ (Brasier) CF: ________ (Duran/Wilson/Lin) 2B: ________ (Arroyo/Chavis/Munoz/Lin/Arauz/Chatham/Downs) 1B: ________ (Dalbec, Chavis) 4th OF:______ (Duran/Wilsonm/Lin) To me, the worst filli-ns we have are pitching and OF. I think we may put off signings at 2B and 1B until the summer or next winter, if nobody wins the job by then. We sign 2 SP'ers and maybe some good minor league depth SP'ers We sign 3-4 RP'ers We sign a CF'er and 4th OF'er (maybe one that can play 1B or 2B, too) That's 7-9 minimum that make the 26 man roster. (Sale starts on the IL.) SP1 _____ SP2 Perez SP3 Eovaldi SP4 ERod SP5 _____ SP6 Houck/Pivetta (Sale) Closer ______ RP2 ______ RP3 Barnes RP4 DHern RP5 Taylor RP6 ______ RP7 ______/Brasier C Vazquez/Plawecki 1B Dalbec/Chavis 2B Arroyo/Munoz 3B Devers SS Bogaerts LF: Benintendi CF: _______, _______ RF: Verdugo DH: Martinez

Othani was not brought up as a 2 way player in America, but he's the only recent one I can think f that has shown he can be good at both.

Morton was the same age as Price and had started 55 games in his previous 2 seasons with an ERA+ of 113 and 133. He got less money and less years than $16M x 3. Happ re-signed with the Yanks in 2018 after starting 56 games in his previous 2 years and 88 in his previous 3 years. His ERA+ was 163, 143 and 193 those 3 years. He was 35 when he signed- a little older than Price was when traded. Price started 52 games in the 2 years before being traded. He started 63 in his previous 3 seasons. His ERA+ was 76, 177, 128. He was 34 when traded. I'm not getting all the Price love after he was almost constantly bashed his whole time here, except for the last 2 rounds of the 2018 playoffs. Previous 3 year totals: Price: 122 ERA+, 63 GS/358 IP Happ: 125 ERA+, 88 GS/518 IP Morton: 121 ERA+, 59 GS/331 IP (was injured 3 years before signing.) -- 2 yrs 123 ERA+ 55 GS/314 IP Sure, some injury prone pitchers have gotten wild deals that seem unfathomable, and maybe some GM would take a chance like that, but I'd take the Morton and Happ deals over a 3 year deal for Price.

That's what I think. Bloom insisted on LA taking Price, just like we insisted the Dodgers take Crawford to get AG. Had we not included Price, we might have gotten Verdugo and Strippling or Gonsolin. It appears we could have gotten Maeda but chose not to.

Maybe someday, one GM will talk in detail about the working of the deal. I could be wrong. I have been before, but I just don't see that kind of value in Price at his age and with his injury history. Maybe $16M x 1 or $28M x 2 would be the highest I think anyone would go, but $16M x 3? Most fibers in my being think no.

Nobody wanted Price at $32M x 3. I doubt anyone would have signed him for $16M x 3, last winter, so why would anyone trade for him?

I think he makes the opening day roster, because we have like 7 gaping holes in a 13 man staff. That being said, I don't think 2 game sample sizes decide much in MLB.

They both are unreliable. I'm not sure what your point is.

That's highly debatable. I'm not saying the Price part of the deal could be viewed as a push or a plus for LA, but I don't think they wanted him, even at half "price."

You know they asked for Price or think they did? It was my impression the Sox insisted on them talking Price and the negotiations were mostly about how much money we had to give them. (The Maeda for Graterol deal was made after the initial deal fell through, so it's hard to argue they had that deal planned, knowing they were getting Price.)

Would you have said this 10 days ago? Does such a small sample size really decide issues like this, definitively?

Do you think LA asked for Price and $16M per year? If no, wouldn't you expect something in return, even if minor?

Slightly more, yes. Maybe Verdugo/Downs and Graterol/Maeda

I'm not saying this site has the best value numbers, but who on this list do you think is "over-valued?" Mine are in red. 83.9 Devers 62.3 Verdugo 33.7 Bogaerts 26.4 Downs 22.2 Casas 19.7 Dalbec 17.6 Chavis 14.4 Vazquez 12.4 Mata 12.1 Duran 10.5 D Hern 9.0 ERod (due to injury) 8.5 Jimenez 8.5 Taylor 6.0 Lugo 5.6 Perez 4.9 Chatham 4.8 Pivetta 4.5 Potts 3.8 Song 3.6 Beni 3.0 Murphy

My whole point is based on finding a way to get someone more reliable by adding others to the trade. I'm not expecting an ace- just durability.

I wanted us to get Maeda with Verdugo, but I think Bloom wanted prospects.

"Nutty" might mean more quantity (like smaller 1-2 year deals) than quality. This could be our opening day 26 man roster: SP1________ SP2 Perez SP3 Eovaldi SP4 ERod SP5 _____ SP6 Pivetta/Seabold RP1 ______ RP2 ______ RP3 Barnes RP4 D Hern RP5 Taylor RP6 Valdez RP7 Brasier C Vazquez, Plawecki 1B ______, Chavis 2B ______, Arroyo/ Munoz 3B Devers SS Bogey LF Beni CF ____, Lin RF Verdugo DH JD That's signing just 3 everyday players to bridge to 2022. BTW, I think Dalbec & Houck make the opening day roster,but I can see one or both being given some time in AAA.

I get your point, but Bloom is not getting good production from some of the big contracts on this team, and with the limited budget he was given, this year, he has made deals like a small market would do. The real test will come if and when Henry opens the wallet. Let's see what he does, then. Hopefully, he will make the types of additions he made in TB, but will be able to afford to do more of them and maaybe get better ones by offering them a little more than he could do with the Rays. I doubt he sticks to a small market approach, but some sort of middle ground might work best.

Not many, but the trades gave us upgrades at other positions and/or saved us some money that could be used to improve a FA pitcher signing to a higher quality. I will say, I'd rather have almost any of these pitchers over Eovaldi, except maybe Zimmerman and Syndergaard (I did not realize he had just 1 year left.)