moonslav59

What might we get for all 26 players, this winter?

Brutal.

What's your point? You honestly think this is not a steal? Please don't say, "I just gave some numbers- interpret as you wish." Give us an opinion.

I don't see any issues deciding who to DFA once we activate some of our players 60 Day IL players. Santana or Andriese come to mind. Brice, Rios or Wormnan, too. Wilson, Arauz or Potts could be traded.

Martin Perez? You mean the guy that has pitched like our ace for much of the season? Or Marwin?

I think based on several years.

I meant in terms of first round picks and under slotting. For all we know, the Sox may underslot as much as the Rays, tonight.

I always have the sound off for Sox announcers.

I'm not against criticizing specific moves by any manager, but I get defensive, sometimes, because like you, I think Cora & Bloom are brilliant. You have some good points, but we don't know everything. I trust Cora had some good reasons. Maybe he wants Barnes to get some extra rest, since he is taking the trip to the AS game.

It's not all about him playing everyday vs a bench role. It's not about old school vs new school. I don't see any new tradition being established whereby prospects like Duran are being called up earlier than before. It's about him maybe not being ML ready, especially on defense and our lack of need for an OF'er. It's easy to say Duran could do better than Marwin, Santana and Chavis, but you are assuming two things: 1. The three players who have been doing poorly will continue to do so or are expected to continue doing that poorly or worse than what we can expect from Duran, which is a very unpredictable thing. I keep hearing, "How can he do any worse?" This makes sense, but only if you assume all players do as poorly as their recent poor sample sizes show. That wasn't the case with Renfroe after April and Dalbec after April and May. 2. Duran, who has been struggling at the plate, recently will do better. If you are going by what Duran is doing in AAA, why not call up Cordero? He has better numbers and better recent numbers. There is also Duran's defensive readiness to consider. Why not trust Bloom?

Kike is better in CF than 2B or 1B. I've been saying that since the moment we signed him. Despite two stints on the IL, Arroyo has done nothing to prove he shouldn't be our FT 2Bman. Really, the only non pitching slots that look like weak areas are 1B and bench. We can narrow that down to a LH hitting platoon at 1B and keep Dalbec to hit vs LHPs, but that is a rather narrow role for taking up a roster slot, especially, if we go back to carrying an extra pitcher. Marwin is not going anywhere, despite his sub 600 OPS, but replacing Santana/Chavis could be an easy and inexpensive trade. So,maybe we replace Dalbec on the 26 man roster by trading for a 1Bman (Carlos Santana?). Maybe we keep Dalbec on the roster and replace Santana/Chavis with a 1Bman who hits left-handed. That puts an big strain on Marwin to handle all the other positions, unless we go with one less pitcher on the 26. The pitching situation seems more clear in one way- who can be replaced, but a bit more complicated in another area- who and when can an in system pitcher replace one of these three pitchers: Andriese Rios Workman (maybe Richards at some point) We have Sale, Houck and Brasier/Bazardo/Valdez/Ort, but I'm thinking we add one pitcher by trade.

Your points are well-taken. Maybe, he planned to use Ottavino in the 9th, so Barnes would get more rest.

I'd rather have Leiter, Davis, Mayer or Lawlar, but I'd be happy with Jobe or even Rocker. If Bloom takes Watson or House, I'd think he knows what he's doing. One note: Bloom's drafting history is not all that great, but maybe their strategy was influenced by their budget.

We hear a lot of talk about this team is like the 2013 ring team- a team largely viewed as over achieving their career norms. Here's a look at 2021... Hitters (by order of most PAs in 2021) 2021 Player Other years .921 Devers .846 career/.916 in '19 .931 JDM .887 career/1.066 '17, 1.031 '18, .939 '19, .912 '14, .908 '16 .924 Bogey .814 career/ .939 in '19, .883 '18, .867 '20 .782 Verdugo .796 career/ .844 '20, .817 '19 .755 Kike .740 career/ .836 '15, .806 '18, .768 '14 .772 Renfroe .775 career/.805 '18, .778 '19 .654 Vazquez .694 career/ .801 '20, .798 '19, .735 '17 .673 Dalbec .746 career/ .959 in '20 .585 Marwin .720 career/ .907 trashcan year, .727-.759 four seasons .720 Arroyo .669 career/.736 '20, '735 '18 5 of the top 10 players, this year, have a higher career OPS than 2021 OPS.

How?

Hours to go...

Exactly. Had he just repeated 2018 or 2019, this year, he'd still have made more than this deal.

Arroyo is our 2Bman, not Marwin.

Not enough to get him. I can't see any rental I'd trade a top prospect for. Looking at the soxprospects.com top 20 and next winter's Rule 5 players, I'm not sure all these guys can be part of the 2022 40 man roster or extended future with the Sox. I'd form 3 groups on how I view who I'd maybe trade: Nope: Casas, Duran, Downs, Jimenez, Houck, Bello I doubt it: Seabold, A Ramirez, Yorke, Mata, Song, Winckowski Maybe: Groome, Bonaci, Jordan, Murphy, Lugo, F Valdez, Wong, Ward

They shoulda done it while their stock was high!

Great post, again, oldtimer. I see 3 replaceable pitchers (Andriese, Rios & Workman) and 1 bench player (Santana/Chavis) between the ASB and the trade deadline. I agree, Sale and maybe one or two from Houck/Brasier/Bazardo/Valdez/Ort can fill 2-3 of these 4 slots, but I think we'll trade for one pitcher. Santana/Chavis. He does not play 1B. I think we may roll the dice with what we have or trade for a LH'd hitting 1Bman.

Unless Barnes implodes over the second half, I can't see any scenario where he would not have made way more than this deal. On paper, this is a mega steal for the Sox. While this season looks like an outlier, he has had several very good seasons. His 15.1 K/9 rate is not his career high. He had a 14.3 K/9 rate from 2018-2020. His 3.28 FIP over that time is very nice. (It's 2.04, this year.) His biggest improvement is with BB/9. It was 5.0 from 2018-2020 and is 2.4, now. Can he sustain this? We'll find out. Just a few short months ago, very few wanted him to touch the 9th inning.

Those are not the only 2 choices, but if I had to choose one, I keep him around as a possible 2022 starter. If the Verdugo-Kike-Renfroe OF continues doing very well, the same debate will rage in 2022, as well. I still would not trade him,unless someone offered something I value more than him. I get the feeling some people think I value Duran less than they do, because I only want him called up when Bloom thinks he's ready and can play a lot. I like Duran more than Downs and even Casas, who is rated much higher than Duran. He will get his chance at the right time. The right time does not appear to be right now.

While true, he won't be traded. He is now our closer of the future at a much lower cost that the free agent market would have cost us. Now, which Barnes will we see going forward? To me, even the old Barnes is worth more than $8M/yr.

Bloom is somewhat of a wildcard, because his history was with a team that had a totally different financial strategy, and his time here was during a re-tooling phase and reset the budget restrictions. I'm pretty sure we won't see him selling off free agents-to-be, like he had to do with the Rays, and last summer with the Sox, but what will he do? I doubt we see any blockbuster deals. I think we will stay below the tax line and try to find deals like 2018. Low cost with high reward upside potential.