moonslav59

Well, it does sound contradictory to say he was an overpay but worth it, but that is my position. Overpays are needed, at times.

Agreed. I'm not sure anyone can feel confident enough to pencil in anyone to the 2 or 3 slot, let alone the 4-5 slots. Having so many choices improves the odds we end up with 5 decent SP'ers, but there are a few issues with that. Here are but a few: 1. We likely need better than "decnet" to advance farther than we did in 2025, and we are down our 2nd best SP'er in GIO before we even get started in 2026. 2. We may end up finding a better than decent 5, but if it takes us trial and error and until August to settle on the right 5, we may be too far behind to catch up. 3. We really need to count on injuries and or regressions, and having the depth we have now seems to address this, but it looked like we had that covered in 2025 and still ended up trading for DMay and relying on 2 rookies over the last 2 months of the season. 4. Even Bello seems questionable as a number 4, but he will likely be our #3, assuming we do add a #2. We may end up needing Sandoval, Crawford, Dobbins, Harrison, Early or someone else to be the #3, so that would make filling #4 and #5 that much harder. We felt so confident last year we traded Priester. For much of the season our top 3 SP'ers looked as good or better than most other teams top 3, but then Gio and Bello sputtered near the end. That should be a lesson to learn. The more #2-3 types you have the better. Loading up on 4-5's is a lot harder to make work. Here is the order we used our SP'ers in 2025: Crochet Houck (later on IL) Buehler (later DFA'd) Fitts (Giolito on IL) Later demoted Newcomb (Crawford on IL) Later traded away Dobbins (Doubleheader) Later on IL Bello Giolito Bernardino (opener) Criswell (1 start) Later demoted & IL D May (Later DFA'd) Tolle Early Harrison De Leon (1 GS at end of season)

How does Abreu play FT without trading an OF'er. Hell, we can't even platoon him and find enough playing time with Duran, Anthony and Rafaela. BTW, RA and JD are also LHBs and Rafaela has reverse splits. We are going to trade an OF'er, IMO.

Can you explain how we play 4 FT OF'ers in 3 slots? Do you want Duran, the worst defender of the 4 to DH most games? How is Duran at DH bring us the same value he'd have on another team as an OF'er? We have 4 very plus OF'ers along with 2 very good young depth pieces and the chance of bringing Ref back. We also have Yoshida, who the brass seems to think is meant for LF not DH. We have great needs at SP2, 1B and 2B/3B (or both.) It seems so simple to me. All the ingredients are in line for a trade.

No, We don't have a bad streak of aging pen arm additions, despite deals like Hendriks. We are discussing adding a SP'er. Most agree we need a solid and dependable #2. Adding depth SP'ers with injury history or aging issues is one thing, but most of the guys I listed from our past SP'er additions were added to be a big key to the rotation. Many of us were okay with Kluber, if he was the second best SP'er we added that season- same with others along teh way. I actually like Sandoval more than others, here and list him as out current #3, but he should be our 4 or 5.

My bad. I guess I felt like he was going to NYM all along, but we probably could have gotten him if we went large and LONG. The issue was JH's inability to go large enough and long enough on anyone before those two.

You crack me up saying you don't care about values then erupt over it. I said BTV or otherwise, meaning BTV doesn't really matter. I'm willing to give more than what many feel is warranted to get a guy like Greene, Skenes or Hunter Brown. "More than" may be subjective and mean something different to you over someone else. You don't think we understand that? What would you give for Skenes? Greene? Brown? I fully expect another non answer.

Waiting that long was reckless. That being said, the signing got us to the playoffs, despite dumping Devers (another reckless choice.)

We have the trade capital to add a solid #2. We have enough to get two. We may have to get creative with a 3 team deal to get Ryan, but we also have the "prospects" to get him without a third team, such as Campbell or Garcia, Arias or pitching prospects not named Tolle or early or some sort of mix and match. Duran for Lodolo is an overpay according to BTV, but I'd do it. I'm not against getting Sale, but not as THE #2. After Crochet and Bello (who has some questions too) almost all of our deep rotation depth are unproven youngsters (Tolle, Early, Harrison, Fitts and others) or pitchers coming off an injury (Crawford, Dobbins, Sandoval) or both (Perales.) I'd feel better having 3 dependable SP'ers- knowing that even those 3 are not a sure bet for 25+ GS'd.

At that point in the off season, he was the only one that could make us a playoff contender. It was an overpay but worth it. We should not have gotten to that point of desperation. We better not repeat that scenario this off season.

I'm not ignoring them or offering them in trades (hardly at all,) but we need a solid #2, and I'd prefer a younger guy than Sale, Merrill Kelly of some other 30+ pitcher.

I'm not against a massive overpay, BTV or otherwise. Most of the trades I suggest are BTV overpays. I'm not sure many of the younger pitchers I listed are "available," but I'd kick the tires. I thought the Crochet deal was an overpay, but I was fine with it. I did say, "We better extend him or risk it being a bad trade."

Wilson dropped off near the end, and I thought we were talking SP'ers. Chapman was a better RP'er example. SP'ers 30+ signed or traded for: '25: Buehler '24 Paxton '23 Kluber '22 Wacha & Hill (The only 2 that worked out okay, but missed key games.) '21 Richards & Paxton (Peacock) '20: Godley, Mazza & Kickham (Perez was 29) '19 Cashner & Chacin Great streak, huh? Maybe we get lucky, next time. Sandoval turns 30 next October. Why keep rolling the dice?

Best ERA- of younger pitchers 2024-2025 (150+ IP) 46 Skenes 63 Greene 64 Yamamoto 72 Crochet 73 H Brown 74 Abbott 76 Ragans & T Myers 77 Woo & Schwell. 83 Olson 87 Priester 88 Gil 90 L Ortiz & G Williams 91 Roupp 93 Bello 94 Kirby & Burke 95 J Soriano 96 Bibee 97 Gore 99 Bellozo

Who could be our next Crochet? I'd accept a 26, 27 or even 28 year old in a trade and extension. Peralta turns 30 in June and has 1 year left- not two like Crochet had. Ryan turns 30 in June, but he has 2 years left. Lodolo turns 28 before the season and has 2 years. Skubal just turned 29 and 1 year. None of these guys come very close to the Crochet situation. Skenes isn't even 24 and is pre arb (4 years to go) but PIT is not shopping him, HOU is not shopping 28 year old Hunter Brown (3 arbs to go) Ragans turns 28 soon. He has 3 years left. Hunter Greene is just 26 and is locked up for 3 years with options. I just don't see CIN trading him, unless we blow them away. Kirby turns 28 and Gore 27 in FEB, Bibee turns 27 in March. Woo turns 26 in Jan. None of these guys will be easy to pry from their current teams. Is it worth making a massive overkill offer to get one?

Indeed. Yankees fans in MA, Sox fans in CT and NY and even TEXAS! Hell, there might be more NYY+BOS fans in Tampa than Rays fans.

Wong's bat is not good enough to play 1B, unless in an emergency. Romy may need a position to get time. He's ahead of Wong on my 1B depth chart.

It seems that as much as we complain about adding oft injured or recently injured pitchers, every year, many posters suggest we add the next one.

Okay. I thought your point was that the Breggie signing was the mistake.

If TOR adds Tucker, that would be huge, but if they lose Bichette, Bassitt, Scherzer and some lesser players, I'm not so sure they will be significantly better. They seem like an up and down team to me. The Yanks and Mariners scare me more, and both may make some gains this winter. We know NYY gets Cole back.

While I agree, there may be some maniac spender in a smaller market size than us, so it's not always such a clear delineation. I will agree that top 6 seems reasonable, as there was a significant drop from #5 TOR ($255M) and #6 HOU ($232M,) and the 7 through 12 teams were all between #12 $203M (BOS) and #7 TEX at $226M. We're talking $23M to go from 12 to 7. The #6 team (HOU) is saying they want to get under the tax line, and TEX is #7, so it seems doable to get to #6, if no other teams goes absolutely nutty. The drop from 4 to 5 was about $37M, so I doubt we jump to #4 anytime soon. We can spend more has been the mantra here for years. No doubt we can.

CT has some Sox lairs, too.

I think they decided after the Sale & Nate, which was 2019, that they were not going to spend for a while. Maybe they convinced themselves they could still stay "competitive enough," but once they dumped Betts and half-Price, they must have know no rings were forthcoming. The 2021 season gave them cover. It was hard to argue we were no longer competitive, and they ran with that while making some strategic moderate "buys" just when the fanbase seemed about to revolt. If you look at the Sox spending trends under JH, you sill see several downturns in spending, but most did not last long. We seemed to be cycling our spending when ring seasons seemed more probable. 2013 was an outlier, as we cut spending and still won. 2019 was somewhat of an illusion as spending went up (Sale + nate deals) but we failed to return Kimbrel and Kelly and the roster was worse. When you factor in inflation we have had a very long downturn and are still way behind our 2019 budget total. The actual total budget is higher than 2015, and the end of year budget in 2025 was slightly higher than 2016 and 2017, but that is no defense for JH. Here are the years the Sox went over the lux tax line: 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 under for 2 years 2010 & 2011 under for 3 years 2015 & 2016 under for 1 2018 & 2019 under for 2 2022 (over by 1.2 M- a mistake?) under for 2 2025 (not over by much) This shows a shift in "trends." If we go over in 2025, it will be the first time back-to-back in 6 years. There have been some ups and downs along these last 6 years- most significant from 2021 to 2022 (Story signing) and from 2024 to 2025 (several signings and the Devers extension.) I know I have used the phrase "make or break" for JH a few times, in recent winters, and the big jump in spending last winter was an encouraging sign, but now that Devers was dumped and Bregman & Gio opted out, we are back in that familiar place again- wondering what JH will do. The long extensions to young stars over the past 2+ seasons is nice, but we need to do better than last winter. To me, it's time for at least one large and long contract, and I'm not talking Trevor Story or Yoshida levels. We can't stop there. While one L & L deal is essential, we need to find a way to add at least 2 more significant players- somehow/someway. The Sox are on the clock.

One may be more important than the other, but both are such high needs that we might as well call it a tie. We also need a 3rd major add. Big Bopper (1B, 3B/2B) SP2 3B/2B or 1B (see #1)

With so many teams in need of Of'ers the talk has been almost all about us trading an OF'er, but what about the fact that many teams are dying for starting pitchers- even #4's or #5's. That is another area we are pretty deep. We have a #1 (Crochet) and a decent #3 (Bello,) but the amount of #4's to #6's is rather amazing. Adding one or two to a trade package could be what gives us the edge over other teams who cannot spare a pitcher. Sandoval, Crawford, Harrison, Dobbins, Fitts, Criswell Tolle, Early, Perales, Uberstine, Drohan, Anderson, Sandlin I don't think you get good return value on lower level prospects, but we have our fair share of them, too: Holobetz, Clarke, Paez, Fajardo, Valera, Witherspoon, Phillips, Eyanson Aita, Travieso, Monegro, Mullins, J Bello, Morgan, Tygart, Brown, Rivera