moonslav59

Better than the idea of getting just a comp pick, but yes, it’s not something anyone loves. BTW, Verdugo and his 5 years of team control was not a prospect. Downs and Wong were.

I told you already. Several times. Stop being “lazy” as you called me. The strawman comment is 100% spot on accurate. It’s your MO. Every time you construct one, I will call you in it. I’d you want the strawman comments to end, stop constructing them.

With nothing in return or not replacing their contracts on the budget, likely last place. IMO

It would also clear room for rule 5 protectees and future FA singnees.

Wrong again. I’ve told you several times my circle of Sox discussions goes way beyond this site, but again you choose to believe alt facts and argue with strawman.

The guy who still owes us the link that shows “all reviews of the Betts trade said Bloom failed.”

All fact and little opinion.

Maybe his misreads the masses.

It's not just the Wink case. The vast majority of SP'ers do better with anyone-but-Vaz. Small sample sizes, unbalanced sample size and laeger/balanced sample sizes almost all show the same results, pitcher-by- pitcher, year-by-year or careers as a whole. You can debate or dispute the ability of a catcher to make a significant difference, but the facts are the facts.

To use one of your favorite phrases, "You ignore" that Winckowski's other start w Vaz was against a team that is also "nothing more than a minor league team in major league uniforms," so the small sample size point does make a point.

BTV accepted this multi-team deal: To BOS RHP Bednar SP J Quintana C Rodrigues (prospect) 1B Josh Bell To PIT Duran Dalbec Downs Gonzalez Jimenez Milas (C prospect from WSH) To WSH Jordan We get a decent rental SP'er in Quintana, a solid RHP in Bednar with several years of team control remaining, a solid 1B rental in Bell and a possible catcher for the future in Rodriquez. We give up more than Bloom would likely do, but this deal might make us top contenders, if other players are stepping up their game and one of Sale or Paxton are contributing. It allows Whitlock to return to the pen along with using Bednar is a pen role. Bell gives us a reliable 1Bman for 2+ months.

I guess "in over your head" might have varying comotations and degrees of suckiness among different posters.

Yes, and the one time he didn't, it was Wong not Plawecki. 2.93 v Vaz (70.2 IP) / 4.21 Career (182) 11.25 w Wong (4.0) N/A w Plawecki / 2.87 Career (53) Big Nate 3.10 w Plawecki (52.1) / 2.99 Career (162) 3.97 w Vaz (11.1) /4.55 Career (166) 1.93 w Wong (4.2) Wacha 0.40 w Plawecki (22.1) 3.69 w Vaz (31.2) Hill 2.89 w Plawecki (9.1) 4.72 w Vaz (40.0) Whitlock 0.00 w Plawecki (4) / 3.29 Career (13.2) 3.92 w Vaz (43.2) / 2.52 Career (107) 0.00 w Wong (1.0) Houck 1.41 w Vaz (32.0) / 1.55 Career (87) 9.28 w Plawecki (10.2)/ 6.31 Career (41) Davis 0.00 w Plawecki (8.0) / 4.38 Career (12.1) 2.16 w Vaz (16.2) / 2.17 Career (29) Note: some very small sample sizes and some very unbalanced IP totals in most cases- like Plawecki has not caught a single inning with Pivetta, this season.

Are they the only 2 catchers in MLB? But what about CERA...?

I doubt that is ever a reason for a promotion, since it's unknown the player will do better at the higher level. If the value increases with the promotion, it would be just as helpful to keep the player than to trade him, IMO. I think this kid is the real deal, and I think Bloom is looking at getting serious input from the farm over the next few years. That's part of the strategy of improving the long term outlook while building up the 40 man roster, at the same time. It's a delicate balance, but so far, Bloom has traded away very few prospects, and none that had super high value. The highest ranked prospect traded was Aldo Ramirez (correct me, if I'm wrong), and he was ranked 9th by soxprospects.com, last spring. He's added prospects Whitlock, German, Winckowski, Seabold, Binelas, Hamilton, Koss, Downs, Wong, R Hernandez and others via trades. Clearly, this has been a high priority. The results on many of these guys are yet to be seen. Surely, some will fail, but there is some good talent in this group, and some will likely do well. Whitlock has already shown a plus. Bloom has also benefited from some DD prospects that eventually rose up to ML readiness and have contributed, namely Houck and Dalbec, but there are more that are nearing ML readiness, soon- like Duran, Casas, Bello, Mata, Murphy and Rafaela, among others. I'm liking what I see on the farm, but we are still not a top 7-10 system. At best, we might be viewed as top 10-14.

Same with my state, but they don't need to pass the test to advance to the next grade. (IN high school, they do need to pass them to get credit, though.)

The other thing is that Arroyo hit pretty well, last year, and a platoon vs LH'd starters, which has been rare, this year, is such a small sample size, that one could argue, Arroyo was given a reasonable amount of time to find his 2021 offensive groove, but he failed. Blame Cora for his failure, but it's not like he was expected to hit .550. It's not like Refsnyder was a known plus, either. I'm not defending Arroyo in RF, but his poor offense could not have been expected. We've faced 16 LH'd starters this year to 46 RH'd starters, so we're talking about 25% of the games played and a 9th hole batter.

You don't think talking about predictions on win totals has to do with the moves Bloom made or didn't make? The title of the thread is Grading Bloom & Cora. It's fine to discuss them separately, but when you bring up expectations of wins, I don't think I'm going off on a wild tangent to bring up Bloom's influence in those expectations. I also find it interesting that expectations seem to factor into a manager's grades but not necessarily a GM's grade.

Do, Bloom gets and F on 2020, despite being handed a live gernade. He gets a B+ for 2021. He gets a B+ for 2022. That totals a C-. Gotcha. All GMs with a budget under $60M who have losing records are graded F. BTW, in most schools, new to the country students who know no English are not given an "F" in English.

I forgot Chavis at 2B and counting Verdugo as Betts & Price's replacment.

We did NOT make the playoffs on the back of those few players you listed, and you made the comment a bout Bloom not turning a bunch of "nobodies into a playoff team." I responded to that specific point. No, JD, Devers, Bogey. ERod and Barnes were not nobodies, but we did have a ton of nobodies from the #9 to 40 slot on the 40 man when Bloom took over. I'm not sure that is something that can even be debated. Maybe the #9 can be pushed to #12-40, but that means over 25 players were nobodies or close to nobodies, and YES, Bloom turned those nobodies into a supporting cast that allowed us to do better than 82-84 wins. Cora helped, too. He did not get nobodies to play better: he replaced them. Here is the end of year roster for 2019. Note: Betts and Price were forced out, Porcello, Moreland and Holt were a FAs to be. (Moreland was brought back) https://www.soxprospects.com/2019SE.htm Basically this: Rotation: Sale (IL) Erod Johnson Shawaryn KHart Pen: Workman Barnes Taylor Hembree Walden DHern Brasier Lakins Weber/ Brewer/Poyner (Houck) C: Vaz & Leon (Centeno) 1B: Sam Travis (Dalbec/Ockimey) 2B: Marco Hernandez (Chatham) 3B: Devers SS: Bogey (Owings) LF: Beni CF: JBJ RF: Gorkys Hernandez DH: JD

So, this kind of begs the question. If 2020 should not count and the expectation for 2021 was 82-84 wins, why does Bloom get a below C grade? Is it the 2022 season, so far? Does not getting a cheap RH'd bat for the OF and a bonafide closer really outweigh the additions of Story, Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Schreiber and Refsnyder- not to mention players like Whitlock, Pivetta and others added since the deadline of 2020? Does rebuilding the farm to respectability also factor into the grade in a positive way? Does the added long range budget concerns, which is only Story, a good or a bad thing?

Well, the GM did actually specifically say we needed a RH'd bat for the OF, so there is that. IMO, the late Story signing scuttled any plans to get a RH'd bat for the OF, and gave them a false sense of security with the idea that Arroyo could play OF. The Story signing also set Kike as the FT CF'er who bats RH'd, so that changed things a little, too. I'm not hung up on the RH'd bat in the OF as much as many, here. I think it was a minor choice that was or will be over-shadowed by Story at 2B and Kike in CF FT. I also think Bloom did very well spending in other areas- like Wacha, Hill and Starhm. Much better than his 2021 signings.

To add to this excellent point, if anyone expected better than 84 wins or a team that got 2 wins away from the WS, then wouldn't that imply they felt Bloom did an excellent job over the winter, right?

No, he turned a bunch of nobodies into different players that were better. The 2021 roster was vastly different from the end of season 2019 roster. Bloom acquired Whitlock, Pivetta, Kike, Renfroe, Arroyo, Dugo, Schwarber, Iggy, Shaw, Davis and Robles. Yes, he missed or broke close to even on others, but he created much of the roster.